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#1831 Randombox

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Posted 28 August 2017 - 08:27 PM

What about buildings that have both businesses and private residences? There are a few building like this downtown, and they are posted. Is the building allowed to do that, or are CCL holders who live in the building exempt as long as they go directly to/from their unit?

#1832 Brownshoe

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 08:44 AM

What about buildings that have both businesses and private residences? There are a few building like this downtown, and they are posted. Is the building allowed to do that, or are CCL holders who live in the building exempt as long as they go directly to/from their unit?

Similarly, what about hotels like the Palmer House Hilton? Can you keep a loaded firearm in your room, if you FOID carry from the street to the room?

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#1833 THE KING

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 12:28 PM

 

What about buildings that have both businesses and private residences? There are a few building like this downtown, and they are posted. Is the building allowed to do that, or are CCL holders who live in the building exempt as long as they go directly to/from their unit?

Similarly, what about hotels like the Palmer House Hilton? Can you keep a loaded firearm in your room, if you FOID carry from the street to the room?

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Yes you can have a loaded firearm in your room as it becomes your legal dwelling per 720 ILCS 5/24-1 (a) (4). You can not FOID carry, but you can transport your firearm with a FOID card into a posted location as long as that location is not considered prohibited per another portion of the UUW statute.



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#1834 Randombox

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 02:47 PM

Yes you can have a loaded firearm in your room as it becomes your legal dwelling per 720 ILCS 5/24-1 (a) (4). You can not FOID carry, but you can transport your firearm with a FOID card into a posted location as long as that location is not considered prohibited per another portion of the UUW statute.


So even if you have a CCL, you have to disarm when you walk through the lobby area of your residence? Not that these laws have ever made sense, but hopefully someone will take this one to court.

#1835 THE KING

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 03:09 PM

Yes you can have a loaded firearm in your room as it becomes your legal dwelling per 720 ILCS 5/24-1 (a) (4). You can not FOID carry, but you can transport your firearm with a FOID card into a posted location as long as that location is not considered prohibited per another portion of the UUW statute.


So even if you have a CCL, you have to disarm when you walk through the lobby area of your residence? Not that these laws have ever made sense, but hopefully someone will take this one to court.

Your question is vague at best. This is where it's a grey area. My opinion is if you are in a hotel then your dwelling is your room. I would think you would have to disarm. If your residence is your abode / home and you have to walk through a public right of way to get to that residence then you shouldn't have to disarm. Read 430 ILCS 66/65 ©. You decide.

© A licensee shall not be in violation of this Section while he or she is traveling along a public right of way that touches or crosses any of the premises under subsection (a), (a-5), or (a-10) of this Section if the concealed firearm is carried on his or her person in accordance with the provisions of this Act or is being transported in a vehicle by the licensee in accordance with all other applicable provisions of law.

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#1836 lockman

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 07:23 PM


 

What about buildings that have both businesses and private residences? There are a few building like this downtown, and they are posted. Is the building allowed to do that, or are CCL holders who live in the building exempt as long as they go directly to/from their unit?

Similarly, what about hotels like the Palmer House Hilton? Can you keep a loaded firearm in your room, if you FOID carry from the street to the room?
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Yes you can have a loaded firearm in your room as it becomes your legal dwelling per 720 ILCS 5/24-1 (a) (4). You can not FOID carry, but you can transport your firearm with a FOID card into a posted location as long as that location is not considered prohibited per another portion of the UUW statute.


FOID carry is transport. Unloaded and cased or containerd.

My new word "containerd".


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#1837 THE KING

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 07:37 PM

Sorry but Carry and Transport are two different words and have two different meanings.

FOID Carry is when you are able to carry a firearm as outlined under 720 ILCS 5/24-1 (a) (4).

FOID Transport is when you are transporting your firearm as outlined under 720 ILCS 5/24 (a) (4) (i)(ii)(iii).

From the statue.

(4) Carries or possesses in any vehicle or concealed

on or about his person except when on his land or in his own abode, legal dwelling, or fixed place of business, or on the land or in the legal dwelling of another person as an invitee with that person's permission, any pistol, revolver, stun gun or taser or other firearm, except that this subsection (a) (4) does not apply to or affect transportation of weapons that meet one of the following conditions:
(i) are broken down in a non-functioning state; or
(ii) are not immediately accessible; or
(iii) are unloaded and enclosed in a case,

firearm carrying box, shipping box, or other container by a person who has been issued a currently valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card;

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#1838 HeavyDuty

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 07:56 AM

Yes you can have a loaded firearm in your room as it becomes your legal dwelling per 720 ILCS 5/24-1 (a) (4). You can not FOID carry, but you can transport your firearm with a FOID card into a posted location as long as that location is not considered prohibited per another portion of the UUW statute.


So even if you have a CCL, you have to disarm when you walk through the lobby area of your residence? Not that these laws have ever made sense, but hopefully someone will take this one to court.

Your question is vague at best. This is where it's a grey area. My opinion is if you are in a hotel then your dwelling is your room. I would think you would have to disarm. If your residence is your abode / home and you have to walk through a public right of way to get to that residence then you shouldn't have to disarm. Read 430 ILCS 66/65 ©. You decide.
© A licensee shall not be in violation of this Section while he or she is traveling along a public right of way that touches or crosses any of the premises under subsection (a), (a-5), or (a-10) of this Section if the concealed firearm is carried on his or her person in accordance with the provisions of this Act or is being transported in a vehicle by the licensee in accordance with all other applicable provisions of law.

"Public right of way" has a legal definition - I don't think this applies here.

#1839 THE KING

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 08:30 AM

A grey area for sure. Public right of way includes a public footpath by definition.

So, if your abode is in a high rise, is the hallway to the elevators giving you access to your home considered a public footpath?

I think it could be argued either way.

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#1840 Scipio24

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 09:32 AM

I have a question as it pertains to gas stations who are posted on their building door.  Say I am carrying my firearm on my person and need gas.  I encounter a gas station that is posted, would I be able to legally use the pump with my firearm concealed on my person as I would remain in the immediate area adjacent to my vehicle?  I guess I want clarification of where the GFZ begins due to the sign on the entrance door to the inside of the gas station.  I wouldn't go inside, but would I be illegally using the pump?  Thanks for the thoughts.



#1841 Bubbacs

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 09:55 AM

I have a question as it pertains to gas stations who are posted on their building door.  Say I am carrying my firearm on my person and need gas.  I encounter a gas station that is posted, would I be able to legally use the pump with my firearm concealed on my person as I would remain in the immediate area adjacent to my vehicle?  I guess I want clarification of where the GFZ begins due to the sign on the entrance door to the inside of the gas station.  I wouldn't go inside, but would I be illegally using the pump?  Thanks for the thoughts.


That's out there for sure
The signs are for posting at the entrance
Is the entrances INTO the gas station posted like a street sign?
Or is the sign posted on the glass doors like INTO the building?

Not sure I have helped, but as my instructor explained it, walking around outside concealed isn't against the law.
Entering a business or building or property that's posted or in the 23 list, is the only worries that need be addressed.

What did your instructor tell you?

#1842 Scipio24

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 10:31 AM

 

I have a question as it pertains to gas stations who are posted on their building door.  Say I am carrying my firearm on my person and need gas.  I encounter a gas station that is posted, would I be able to legally use the pump with my firearm concealed on my person as I would remain in the immediate area adjacent to my vehicle?  I guess I want clarification of where the GFZ begins due to the sign on the entrance door to the inside of the gas station.  I wouldn't go inside, but would I be illegally using the pump?  Thanks for the thoughts.


That's out there for sure
The signs are for posting at the entrance
Is the entrances INTO the gas station posted like a street sign?
Or is the sign posted on the glass doors like INTO the building?

Not sure I have helped, but as my instructor explained it, walking around outside concealed isn't against the law.
Entering a business or building or property that's posted or in the 23 list, is the only worries that need be addressed.

What did your instructor tell you?

 

 

I interpreted his instructions for no-go-places as:

*one of the 23 from the list (though you get the "safe haven" vehicle aspect on some of those)

*private residences/property unless you have permission from the property owner

*private businesses that have a ISP compliant sign posted in a conspicuous spot on the outermost entrance

 

Now we didn't discuss specifically areas outside buildings that are posted, however, I would interpret it similar to what your instructor said.  If the building is posted, you can't go in, however, if there aren't outside signs on the property specifically calling out the property, it would be fair game.  However, it seems like it can be a gray area where it can be argued (liberal judges, etc) that posting a sign would indicate that since you do not want firearms within your building, it would extend to all of your property.

 

In regards to my original question, I would interpret it as I could be legally carrying on my person on a gas station property using their pumps even if their building is posted.  This would be under the assumption that they do not have posted signs on the street entrances to their property specifically prohibiting firearms on the property with a compliant ISP sign.

 

I am still very new to all this and am just trying to get a clear grasp on what I can legally do.  Of course my normal approach will be to not even patronize gas stations that are posted, however, sometimes you really need gas ASAP and it can't be avoided. I just want to be prepared for that situation.  I will also text a few LEO friends to see if they have thoughts on it.



#1843 THE KING

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 10:47 AM

 

 

I have a question as it pertains to gas stations who are posted on their building door.  Say I am carrying my firearm on my person and need gas.  I encounter a gas station that is posted, would I be able to legally use the pump with my firearm concealed on my person as I would remain in the immediate area adjacent to my vehicle?  I guess I want clarification of where the GFZ begins due to the sign on the entrance door to the inside of the gas station.  I wouldn't go inside, but would I be illegally using the pump?  Thanks for the thoughts.


That's out there for sure
The signs are for posting at the entrance
Is the entrances INTO the gas station posted like a street sign?
Or is the sign posted on the glass doors like INTO the building?

Not sure I have helped, but as my instructor explained it, walking around outside concealed isn't against the law.
Entering a business or building or property that's posted or in the 23 list, is the only worries that need be addressed.

What did your instructor tell you?

 

 

I interpreted his instructions for no-go-places as:

*one of the 23 from the list (though you get the "safe haven" vehicle aspect on some of those)

*private residences/property unless you have permission from the property owner

*private businesses that have a ISP compliant sign posted in a conspicuous spot on the outermost entrance

 

Now we didn't discuss specifically areas outside buildings that are posted, however, I would interpret it similar to what your instructor said.  If the building is posted, you can't go in, however, if there aren't outside signs on the property specifically calling out the property, it would be fair game.  However, it seems like it can be a gray area where it can be argued (liberal judges, etc) that posting a sign would indicate that since you do not want firearms within your building, it would extend to all of your property.

 

In regards to my original question, I would interpret it as I could be legally carrying on my person on a gas station property using their pumps even if their building is posted.  This would be under the assumption that they do not have posted signs on the street entrances to their property specifically prohibiting firearms on the property with a compliant ISP sign.

 

I am still very new to all this and am just trying to get a clear grasp on what I can legally do.  Of course my normal approach will be to not even patronize gas stations that are posted, however, sometimes you really need gas ASAP and it can't be avoided. I just want to be prepared for that situation.  I will also text a few LEO friends to see if they have thoughts on it.

 

You pretty much answered your own question. If the building is conspicuously posted then just the building is off limits. You are legal to carry in the parking area and real property. Bubbacs is correct in what he told you.

 

If the owner posts a sign at the driveway entrance, then all of his property would be prohibited. I would say it is not a gray area as what you described in the gas station scenario.

 

Lastly and I am not bashing LEO's because I have a lot of friends that are cops. But a lot of cops do not know the laws when it comes to firearms. Personally, I think the majority of the people on this website that know and understand the laws will give you a more accurate and correct answer then a LEO would. If you want to ask your LEO friends just don't be surprised if you get different answers from each of them.

 

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#1844 Scipio24

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 11:06 AM

Thanks, King and Bubbacs, for the confirmation on what I was thinking.  I also agree with most LEOs aren't up-to-date on all laws as they relate to firearms.  That's why I wanted to make sure I asked the knowledgeable folks here as well.  Thanks again.



#1845 stm

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 11:40 AM

I have a question as it pertains to gas stations who are posted on their building door.  Say I am carrying my firearm on my person and need gas.  I encounter a gas station that is posted, would I be able to legally use the pump with my firearm concealed on my person as I would remain in the immediate area adjacent to my vehicle?  I guess I want clarification of where the GFZ begins due to the sign on the entrance door to the inside of the gas station.  I wouldn't go inside, but would I be illegally using the pump?  Thanks for the thoughts.

From section 65 of the FCCA:

(d) Signs stating that the carrying of firearms is prohibited shall be clearly and conspicuously posted at the entrance of a building, premises, or real property specified in this Section as a prohibited area, unless the building or premises is a private residence. Signs shall be of a uniform design as established by the Department and shall be 4 inches by 6 inches in size. The Department shall adopt rules for standardized signs to be used under this subsection. 



Just to clarify what others have said, they must post a sign at the entrance of a building, premises, or real property. It is my belief they would need to post both the entrance to the real property (parking lot) AND the building. But for private property not covered by the 23 categories of prohibited areas specified in the law, if the entrance to the building, premises, or real property is not posted, it is not a prohibited area.

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#1846 BShawn

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 11:56 AM

Lastly and I am not bashing LEO's because I have a lot of friends that are cops. But a lot of cops do not know the laws when it comes to firearms. Personally, I think the majority of the people on this website that know and understand the laws will give you a more accurate and correct answer then a LEO would. If you want to ask your LEO friends just don't be surprised if you get different answers from each of them.
 
KING

 

I've had a LEO friend tell me "CONCEALED MEANS CONCEALED", no joke! (yes they actually 'condone' not even following the signs at all in the first place)

Please note, as I know the forum rules - *I* am not condoning this or advocating or suggesting anyone break any rules or laws, I am merely responding as to a response I have received in direct relation to this matter! My overall point is, that even a cop told me this, granted they're a personal friend! Of course you should obey the signs and not risk getting yourself a CLASS B misdemeanor!


Edited by BShawn, 30 August 2017 - 11:59 AM.

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#1847 borgranta

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 03:33 PM

What about buildings that have both businesses and private residences? There are a few building like this downtown, and they are posted. Is the building allowed to do that, or are CCL holders who live in the building exempt as long as they go directly to/from their unit?

A high rise that a couple of my family members lived at was posted and it was explained that they could carry when going to or coming from the apartment.  The management clearly interpreted to safe passage exemption to allow them to carry while passing through the banned areas to gain access to their home.


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#1848 borgranta

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 04:01 PM

 

Yes you can have a loaded firearm in your room as it becomes your legal dwelling per 720 ILCS 5/24-1 (a) (4). You can not FOID carry, but you can transport your firearm with a FOID card into a posted location as long as that location is not considered prohibited per another portion of the UUW statute.


So even if you have a CCL, you have to disarm when you walk through the lobby area of your residence? Not that these laws have ever made sense, but hopefully someone will take this one to court.

 

I know of a high rise that was posted but interpreted the provision allowing passage through right of way to permit a legal carrier to carry without disarming while going to or coming from a dwelling.


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#1849 Bubbacs

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 04:11 PM

It's here somewhere, more than likely archived by now, but the OakBrook Mall (outdoors mall) has the entrances to the circle drive around the parking lots posted.
Larger than life size signs like street ones.
And the discussion here has been long and at times......well just fun! lol

Can't find the link, but like posted above, if the drive entrance isn't posted, pump that gas and enjoy the commercials on the TV monitors.

#1850 borgranta

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 04:12 PM

What about buildings that have both businesses and private residences? There are a few building like this downtown, and they are posted. Is the building allowed to do that, or are CCL holders who live in the building exempt as long as they go directly to/from their unit?

The right to pass through prohibited locations to gain access to your home or fixed place of business is written into the law and even one high rise that cloae family members lived at interpreted the law to allow resident the right to carry while going tonor coming from a dwelling.


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#1851 borgranta

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 04:19 PM

For the purpose of going to or coming from a residence the lobby of a motel is a public right of way since the motel is a business open to the public and any resident is allowed passage to or from their dwelling via the lobby.


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#1852 InterestedBystander

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 04:25 PM

It's here somewhere, more than likely archived by now, but the OakBrook Mall (outdoors mall) has the entrances to the circle drive around the parking lots posted.
Larger than life size signs like street ones.
And the discussion here has been long and at times......well just fun! lol
Can't find the link, but like posted above, if the drive entrance isn't posted, pump that gas and enjoy the commercials on the TV monitors.

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#1853 Frank

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 09:30 PM

 

The right to pass through prohibited locations to gain access to your home or fixed place of business is written into the law and even one high rise that cloae family members lived at interpreted the law to allow resident the right to carry while going tonor coming from a dwelling.

 

 

 

For the purpose of going to or coming from a residence the lobby of a motel is a public right of way since the motel is a business open to the public and any resident is allowed passage to or from their dwelling via the lobby.

 

That's only for: 

 

 

(10) Any public gathering or special event conducted on property open to the public that requires the issuance of a permit from the unit of local government, provided this prohibition shall not apply to a licensee who must walk through a public gathering in order to access his or her residence, place of business, or vehicle.

 

As much as we wish it did, it doesn't apply anywhere else, such as the lobby and hallways of a hotel or apartment building. The lobby and hallways in a private building are not a public right of way.

 

 

-- Frank


Edited by Frank, 30 August 2017 - 09:31 PM.

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#1854 Blackbeard

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 10:12 AM

A grey area for sure. Public right of way includes a public footpath by definition.

So, if your abode is in a high rise, is the hallway to the elevators giving you access to your home considered a public footpath?

I think it could be argued either way.

 

Um, no.  RIght-of-way is the right to use land you do not own.  A public right-of-way is for streets and sidewalks.  You cannot build a building on a public right of way.  Public right of way does not mean buildings that are open to the public.


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#1855 lockman

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 02:37 PM

You can carry in your own abode, apartment or condo. If there's no sign on your door going from your unit into the hallway, your legal based on signage regulation. So you can carry from your unit out but that may not work coming back in. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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#1856 Oscarcano4466

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 10:08 AM

Very Usefull



#1857 jawman

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 01:35 PM

I have seen high rises in the city that have the no carry sign posted on their main lobby door. So what happens if you live in that high rise and have your permit and are carrying? Are you not allowed to carry from the lobby to the elevator on your way to your apartment? If that's the case then how do you even carry at all if you would technically be breaking the law every time you left your apartment/returned while carrying?

#1858 RoadyRunner

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 07:31 PM

I have seen high rises in the city that have the no carry sign posted on their main lobby door. So what happens if you live in that high rise and have your permit and are carrying? Are you not allowed to carry from the lobby to the elevator on your way to your apartment? If that's the case then how do you even carry at all if you would technically be breaking the law every time you left your apartment/returned while carrying?


Technically, probably.

If it’s a condo, then every unit owner is a part owner owner of the common areas. As a part owner, are you still bound by the sign?

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#1859 soundguy

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 07:55 PM

I have seen high rises in the city that have the no carry sign posted on their main lobby door. So what happens if you live in that high rise and have your permit and are carrying? Are you not allowed to carry from the lobby to the elevator on your way to your apartment? If that's the case then how do you even carry at all if you would technically be breaking the law every time you left your apartment/returned while carrying?

 

From a Trib article:

 

 

Q: I live in a high-rise condominium building, and recently, a no-gun sign was posted in the entry lobby window of the building.

Does the posting of the sign require board approval, and how does this affect residents' ability to keep a concealed weapon in their units?

A: Pursuant to the Firearm Concealed Carry Act, a property owner may post a specific design of a no-gun sign at the building entrance. In a condominium context, the board of directors must approve such sign posting and adopt applicable rules.

The Concealed Carry Act expressly allows residents with concealed carry licenses to store a firearm in their homes and vehicles. Thus, in a condominium context, the association cannot prohibit residents with concealed carry licenses from using the lobby or hallways to take a concealed firearm directly to or from their units.

 

Even so, an association can prohibit firearms in common element amenities or at association events.

 

 

And something from southern Illinois:

 

Individual property owners—including community associations—can elect to ban firearms, but they must post standard signs to notify gun owners. Yet most professionals agree an association gun prohibition wouldn't be absolute. Illinois communities may impose restrictions in common areas and at certain events, but they cannot ban members from legally possessing a firearm within their own homes or their vehicles. It gets trickier for condominiums. Associations must allow residents the ability to transport their guns between their vehicles and residences, even if that means firearms are carried briefly through community-owned vestibules, hallways and elevators.

"Inevitably, they have to be able to use the common-element arteries," says Howard Dakoff, a partner at Chicago's Levenfield Pearlstein law firm, which represents more than 1,000 community associations in the metropolitan area, and a member of CAI's College of Community Association Lawyers (CCAL). "The only thing the board can govern is amenities or board meetings or association events. I suppose you could probably somehow say you can't carry a (gun) and loiter in the lobby. It's loose."

 


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#1860 borgranta

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Posted 26 October 2017 - 12:35 AM

I have seen high rises in the city that have the no carry sign posted on their main lobby door. So what happens if you live in that high rise and have your permit and are carrying? Are you not allowed to carry from the lobby to the elevator on your way to your apartment? If that's the case then how do you even carry at all if you would technically be breaking the law every time you left your apartment/returned while carrying?

If the high rise is supported in whole or in part by public funds then the right of way leading to the apartment is technically a public right of way for the purpose of a licensed carrier's right to pass through a prohibited location to gain access to residence or fixed place of business
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