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Should Democrats have the right to carry concealed or even own a gun?


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#121 tbrooks

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 02:16 PM

Honestly, I wouldn't even begin bragging about Moore losing.  Jones barely won, against an opponent accused of being a pedophile LOL.  

 

That's pretty embarrassing.  The only way dems can win in a red state is if the GOP candidate is a pedophile :laugh:

Um yeah....why else would a Dem win in a GOP state? Problem is that the majority of GOP voters supported the child molester.



#122 OldMarineVet

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 02:18 PM

 

Honestly, I wouldn't even begin bragging about Moore losing.  Jones barely won, against an opponent accused of being a pedophile LOL.  

 

That's pretty embarrassing.  The only way dems can win in a red state is if the GOP candidate is a pedophile :laugh:

Um yeah....why else would a Dem win in a GOP state? Problem is that the majority of GOP voters supported the child molester.

 

alleged child molester.



#123 DD123

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 02:20 PM

 

Honestly, I wouldn't even begin bragging about Moore losing.  Jones barely won, against an opponent accused of being a pedophile LOL.  

 

That's pretty embarrassing.  The only way dems can win in a red state is if the GOP candidate is a pedophile :laugh:

Um yeah....why else would a Dem win in a GOP state? Problem is that the majority of GOP voters supported the child molester.

 

I think you're leaving an important thing out of the equation......Moore was a "Christian" candidate.  The ones that voted for him, voted for him for that reason because the opponent is openly pro choice.  

 

The last election for that seat, it was won by 20-30%.  The number of voters that turned out to vote against Moore, were roughly the same as the last election there, so basically that 20-30% of GOP voters decided to stay home.  The ones who don't vote solely based on religion their candidate supposedly follows.  

 

I would've stayed home too, because I wouldn't have voted for Jones considering he's not exactly pro gun.  


Edited by DD123, 15 December 2017 - 02:22 PM.

Force and intimidation are the tools of tyrants.  - Ron Paul

 

If Democrats quit shooting people, "gun violence" would go down by 80%.......

 

Taxation is theft

 

"Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny" - Thomas Jefferson


#124 tbrooks

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 02:28 PM

 

 

Honestly, I wouldn't even begin bragging about Moore losing.  Jones barely won, against an opponent accused of being a pedophile LOL.  

 

That's pretty embarrassing.  The only way dems can win in a red state is if the GOP candidate is a pedophile :laugh:

Um yeah....why else would a Dem win in a GOP state? Problem is that the majority of GOP voters supported the child molester.

 

alleged child molester.

 

Perception is reality. Moore is a child molester. If you admit to liking teenage girls as a grown man...you sir are a child molester. Go back to the Sean Hannity interview and re-watch. Moore is a sick puppy that should have never been allowed to get this close. Period. You can defend him all you want. Doesn't make it right. I hope you don't think liking little girls is ok?



#125 tbrooks

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 02:33 PM

 

 

Honestly, I wouldn't even begin bragging about Moore losing.  Jones barely won, against an opponent accused of being a pedophile LOL.  

 

That's pretty embarrassing.  The only way dems can win in a red state is if the GOP candidate is a pedophile :laugh:

Um yeah....why else would a Dem win in a GOP state? Problem is that the majority of GOP voters supported the child molester.

 

I think you're leaving an important thing out of the equation......Moore was a "Christian" candidate.  The ones that voted for him, voted for him for that reason because the opponent is openly pro choice.  

 

The last election for that seat, it was won by 20-30%.  The number of voters that turned out to vote against Moore, were roughly the same as the last election there, so basically that 20-30% of GOP voters decided to stay home.  The ones who don't vote solely based on religion their candidate supposedly follows.  

 

I would've stayed home too, because I wouldn't have voted for Jones considering he's not exactly pro gun.  

 

Write in voters were significant. Actual republicans with morals and values said heck no to the child molester. In two years the GOP will take the seat back. This is only temporary.


Edited by tbrooks, 15 December 2017 - 02:34 PM.


#126 vito

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 02:38 PM

Those on the Left want to think that a majority of Republicans in Alabama voted for Moore because they have no problem with a pedophile, or even just someone accused of being a pedophile. I think the reality is that many Alabama voters are intelligent enough to look at the big picture. Having Moore in the Senate would enhance the likelihood of Trump's agenda becoming the law of the land. It was his highly likely support to the Conservative agenda being pushed by the President that many Alabama voters agree with, and could vote for Moore because he will move that agenda forward, regardless of whether or not he is a pedophile. Many of us on the right criticize some on the Left for supporting really vile and dishonest candidates, like Hilary Clinton but I think that support for these less than admirable people lies in their steadfast support of the agenda of either the Left or the Right. Being a father of five, and the grandfather of 12 I have nothing but disgust for pedophiles, and feel that time in jail is too gentle a punishment for the sexual abuse or worse of a child, but had I been in Alabama I would voted for Judge Moore. I want to see the tax bill passed. I want to see the Wall built. I want to see national reciprocity for concealed carry become the law of the land. All of these positive outcomes would have had a better chance with Moore in the Senate rather than the Jones character who will actually occupy that seat next month. 


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#127 OldMarineVet

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 02:40 PM

tbrooks, I'm not judging the man at all. Nor did I judge the other men accused of sexual crimes. Per the U.S. Constitution, Moore is entitled to due process. He's innocent until proven guilty. That saying "perception is reality" aka "feelings are facts" is only an understanding that a person's perception can be reality to that particular person (management/employee relations classes.)  That reality is only in that persons mind and not relevant to others, especially somebody's due process.  



#128 stm

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 02:47 PM

tbrooks, I'm not judging the man at all. Nor did I judge the other men accused of sexual crimes. Per the U.S. Constitution, Moore is entitled to due process. He's innocent until proven guilty. That saying "perception is reality" aka "feelings are facts" is only an understanding that a person's perception can be reality to that particular person (management/employee relations classes.)  That reality is only in that persons mind and not relevant to others, especially somebody's due process.  

+1

You beat me to it. Thanks.

yea everyone makes fun of the redneck till the zombies show up. . .


#129 tkroenlein

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 02:55 PM

 


Honestly, I wouldn't even begin bragging about Moore losing.  Jones barely won, against an opponent accused of being a pedophile LOL.  
 
That's pretty embarrassing.  The only way dems can win in a red state is if the GOP candidate is a pedophile ð


Um yeah....why else would a Dem win in a GOP state? Problem is that the majority of GOP voters supported the child molester.
 


I think you're leaving an important thing out of the equation......Moore was a "Christian" candidate.  The ones that voted for him, voted for him for that reason because the opponent is openly pro choice.  
 
The last election for that seat, it was won by 20-30%.  The number of voters that turned out to vote against Moore, were roughly the same as the last election there, so basically that 20-30% of GOP voters decided to stay home.  The ones who don't vote solely based on religion their candidate supposedly follows.  
 
I would've stayed home too, because I wouldn't have voted for Jones considering he's not exactly pro gun.  

The pro life vote continues to be underestimated. Or maybe the media just doesn't talk about it.

I believe Trump won because of getting HRC to say she supported abortion right up to the moment of live birth in the debate. I believe that tipped the scales.

Edited by tkroenlein, 15 December 2017 - 02:56 PM.


#130 DD123

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 03:04 PM

 

tbrooks, I'm not judging the man at all. Nor did I judge the other men accused of sexual crimes. Per the U.S. Constitution, Moore is entitled to due process. He's innocent until proven guilty. That saying "perception is reality" aka "feelings are facts" is only an understanding that a person's perception can be reality to that particular person (management/employee relations classes.)  That reality is only in that persons mind and not relevant to others, especially somebody's due process.  

+1

You beat me to it. Thanks.

 

I think you're both missing the point, even though I do disagree with tbrooks to a certain extent.  

 

Due process has been long gone for a while now.  Today you're convicted in the court of public opinion.  

 

In the minds of most moderates (people I consider the more intelligent voters because they vote based on facts and how the candidate aligns with the issues that are important to them), he's a pedophile.  

 

So in today's day and age, perception is in fact reality when it comes to this stuff.  We all lampooned Franken right?  People on the right keep saying that "oh but there's pictures".  There's one picture, and he's not even touching the woman, he's acting like he's touching her.  Did we not convict him in our people's court of public opinion?  There were other women that said he grabbed their butts, and we believe them with zero proof.  

 

The point is that if Moore ended up winning, we'd become the party of ignoring sexual assaulters, the party of woman haters, etc.  I mean we're already called that for Trump, but Moore being elected will just have pushed more of those moderates over to the left from the constant bombardment by the liberal run MSM.  

 

We really can't call the left hypocrites, and then turn around and be hypocrites ourselves.  Today the right is no longer conservative.  We champion causes/laws that add debt, and give the federal government more power, as long as we get our way.  The party of conservatives hasn't lived up to their "principals" since George W Bush took office.  We had the power of the purse for a while there when Obama was in office.  How many times did we use that power?  Zero?  Being on board with everything republican, because it's republican, without any consideration for what being a conservative used to mean is just pushing all of us closer to all being leftists.  


Force and intimidation are the tools of tyrants.  - Ron Paul

 

If Democrats quit shooting people, "gun violence" would go down by 80%.......

 

Taxation is theft

 

"Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny" - Thomas Jefferson


#131 DD123

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 03:07 PM

 

 


Honestly, I wouldn't even begin bragging about Moore losing.  Jones barely won, against an opponent accused of being a pedophile LOL.  
 
That's pretty embarrassing.  The only way dems can win in a red state is if the GOP candidate is a pedophile ð


Um yeah....why else would a Dem win in a GOP state? Problem is that the majority of GOP voters supported the child molester.
 


I think you're leaving an important thing out of the equation......Moore was a "Christian" candidate.  The ones that voted for him, voted for him for that reason because the opponent is openly pro choice.  
 
The last election for that seat, it was won by 20-30%.  The number of voters that turned out to vote against Moore, were roughly the same as the last election there, so basically that 20-30% of GOP voters decided to stay home.  The ones who don't vote solely based on religion their candidate supposedly follows.  
 
I would've stayed home too, because I wouldn't have voted for Jones considering he's not exactly pro gun.  

The pro life vote continues to be underestimated. Or maybe the media just doesn't talk about it.

I believe Trump won because of getting HRC to say she supported abortion right up to the moment of live birth in the debate. I believe that tipped the scales.

 

The people that voted against her for that reason, would've voted against her regardless.  It's almost a universal that pro life people vote republican.  

 

What tipped the scales is the fact that MSM decided to give Trump non stop coverage.  Most moderates saw through the negative BS, and heard his message loud and clear, then turned around and voted for him.  What also played a HUGE role was his focus on the states Hillary ignored.  


Force and intimidation are the tools of tyrants.  - Ron Paul

 

If Democrats quit shooting people, "gun violence" would go down by 80%.......

 

Taxation is theft

 

"Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny" - Thomas Jefferson


#132 DD123

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 03:11 PM

I have no problem admitting that I voted for Trump.  The only reason I did was the fact that I felt the SCOTUS nominations as well as federal court nominations would do more good than anything Trump can do.  People give presidents more credit than they deserve.  The GOP did too good of a job over the last 8 years convincing everyone that Obama was Mao lol.  The problem with that is it convinced a whole bunch of morons on the left that the president actually has those kinds of powers, and we can all see the effects thats had after the election, through today.  


Force and intimidation are the tools of tyrants.  - Ron Paul

 

If Democrats quit shooting people, "gun violence" would go down by 80%.......

 

Taxation is theft

 

"Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny" - Thomas Jefferson


#133 OldMarineVet

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 03:16 PM

Ignoring the due process from the U.S. Constitution is what lynch mobs are made of. If enough people individually consider their own particular "perception" as "fact" it becomes mob rule. Interesting how many people in our government succumbed to mob rule...either didn't understand their oath or ignored it.

#134 tkroenlein

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 04:49 PM

Ignoring the due process from the U.S. Constitution is what lynch mobs are made of. If enough people individually consider their own particular "perception" as "fact" it becomes mob rule. Interesting how many people in our government succumbed to mob rule...either didn't understand their oath or ignored it.


Yup.

#135 stm

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 05:17 PM

Ignoring the due process from the U.S. Constitution is what lynch mobs are made of. If enough people individually consider their own particular "perception" as "fact" it becomes mob rule. Interesting how many people in our government succumbed to mob rule...either didn't understand their oath or ignored it.

Yup.

+2

yea everyone makes fun of the redneck till the zombies show up. . .


#136 DD123

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 07:28 PM

Ignoring the due process from the U.S. Constitution is what lynch mobs are made of. If enough people individually consider their own particular "perception" as "fact" it becomes mob rule. Interesting how many people in our government succumbed to mob rule...either didn't understand their oath or ignored it.

The question is, how do you fight that?  

 

If that is the case, then why are we so happy that Franken is resigning?  I mean, he wasn't convicted of anything right?  If we go by that standard, then we should be against him resigning for that reason, otherwise we're just hypocrites.  

 

Does anyone here not believe that OJ killed his wife and her boyfriend?  He was tried, and found not guilty.  So why is he viewed as being a murderer?  Because he lost the civil suit?  Civil suits require only that you convince half of the jury, and are not criminal in nature.  But we all agree that OJ got away with double homicide.  Heck, I even call him a murderer.  You know what, he more than likely did do it, but according to the courts, he didn't.  

 

Regardless of how everyone feels about Moore's accusers, just reading the responses in this thread regarding Moore, you can clearly see why women tend to not come forward with this stuff.  

 

Are some of these women liars?  Possibly.  There should be an investigation and a trial to get to the bottom of it.  

 

From my experiences throughout my life, where there's smoke, there could be a fire, but when you see smoke billowing, it's definitely a fire.  

 

Our politicians should be held to a higher standard than those on the left....they should be beyond reproach.  The last time I paid attention, it was 8 women who accused him.  Where there's smoke billowing, there's a fire.  I hope to see all of them take it to the next step and prove it in court.  If they don't, then we'll have an answer regarding whether or not he did it.  

 

There's a woman running for congress in Colorado, as a democrat, and she just dropped out because a guy that worked for her claimed she sexually harassed him.  Should we believe him, or or give her the benefit of the doubt and wait until all of the facts are out?  That's just one guy, not 8 people.  I'm assuming everyone commenting in favor of Moore are fine with her continuing to run though right?  


Force and intimidation are the tools of tyrants.  - Ron Paul

 

If Democrats quit shooting people, "gun violence" would go down by 80%.......

 

Taxation is theft

 

"Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny" - Thomas Jefferson


#137 chicagoresident

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 09:26 PM

Sorry, didn't realize $#&@bag wasn't ****



#138 mauserme

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Posted Yesterday, 08:04 AM

Sorry, didn't realize $#&@bag wasn't ****


Yep, now you know.

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On 5/25/2017, Superintendent Eddie Johnson predicted a 50% reduction is Chicago violence within 3 years of SB1722 becoming law.  The bill was signed into law on 6/23/2017. The clock is now ticking.


#139 chicagoresident

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Posted Yesterday, 12:51 PM

Ignoring the due process from the U.S. Constitution is what lynch mobs are made of. If enough people individually consider their own particular "perception" as "fact" it becomes mob rule. Interesting how many people in our government succumbed to mob rule...either didn't understand their oath or ignored it.

Maybe it was him getting a taste of his own medicine. He has been asked to step down twice for ignoring the due process of the US constitution.

Also, last time Alabama elected a Democrat Roy Moore was also a Democrat.

There are some Republicans that will vote for whoever is a Republican and there are other Republicans who can think for themselves. They also have a very good memory.

Trump even reinforced after the election that Moore was a terrible choice of candidate from the beginning. Trump is the guy that will always deny anything that isn't to his advantage, and he wasn't denying the Roy Moore allegations.

Since there's no legal precedence (statute of limitations) being judged by your own party as unfit to hold office is good enough for guilt. You don't see Moore going after these women for defamation lawsuits, do you?

Edited by chicagoresident, Yesterday, 12:56 PM.


#140 mauserme

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Posted Yesterday, 06:08 PM

Ignoring the due process from the U.S. Constitution is what lynch mobs are made of. If enough people individually consider their own particular "perception" as "fact" it becomes mob rule. Interesting how many people in our government succumbed to mob rule...either didn't understand their oath or ignored it.

Maybe it was him getting a taste of his own medicine. He has been asked to step down twice for ignoring the due process of the US constitution.

Also, last time Alabama elected a Democrat Roy Moore was also a Democrat.

There are some Republicans that will vote for whoever is a Republican and there are other Republicans who can think for themselves. They also have a very good memory.

Trump even reinforced after the election that Moore was a terrible choice of candidate from the beginning. Trump is the guy that will always deny anything that isn't to his advantage, and he wasn't denying the Roy Moore allegations.

Since there's no legal precedence (statute of limitations) being judged by your own party as unfit to hold office is good enough for guilt. You don't see Moore going after these women for defamation lawsuits, do you?


I'm reading OMV's post as not trying to turn the discussion to Roy Moore, but using him as an example of a person deserving of due prosses in the context of the question "Should Democrats have the right to carry concealed or even own a gun?". Meaning, each of us is owed due process by the government, by our accusers, and by society as a whole.

There's a Roy Moore topic in the Back Room that would be appropriate for discussions about his qualifications as a candidate and the recent election.

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Link to ILGA House Audio/Video..........Link to ILGA Senate Audio/Video ..........Advanced Digital Media Link ..........Blue Room Stream Link

Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. (Ephesians 4:31)

 

On 5/25/2017, Superintendent Eddie Johnson predicted a 50% reduction is Chicago violence within 3 years of SB1722 becoming law.  The bill was signed into law on 6/23/2017. The clock is now ticking.


#141 OldMarineVet

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Posted Today, 09:20 AM

 

Ignoring the due process from the U.S. Constitution is what lynch mobs are made of. If enough people individually consider their own particular "perception" as "fact" it becomes mob rule. Interesting how many people in our government succumbed to mob rule...either didn't understand their oath or ignored it.

The question is, how do you fight that?  

 

If that is the case, then why are we so happy that Franken is resigning?  I mean, he wasn't convicted of anything right?  If we go by that standard, then we should be against him resigning for that reason, otherwise we're just hypocrites.  

 

Does anyone here not believe that OJ killed his wife and her boyfriend?  He was tried, and found not guilty.  So why is he viewed as being a murderer?  Because he lost the civil suit?  Civil suits require only that you convince half of the jury, and are not criminal in nature.  But we all agree that OJ got away with double homicide.  Heck, I even call him a murderer.  You know what, he more than likely did do it, but according to the courts, he didn't.  

 

Regardless of how everyone feels about Moore's accusers, just reading the responses in this thread regarding Moore, you can clearly see why women tend to not come forward with this stuff.  

 

Are some of these women liars?  Possibly.  There should be an investigation and a trial to get to the bottom of it.  

 

From my experiences throughout my life, where there's smoke, there could be a fire, but when you see smoke billowing, it's definitely a fire.  

 

Our politicians should be held to a higher standard than those on the left....they should be beyond reproach.  The last time I paid attention, it was 8 women who accused him.  Where there's smoke billowing, there's a fire.  I hope to see all of them take it to the next step and prove it in court.  If they don't, then we'll have an answer regarding whether or not he did it.  

 

There's a woman running for congress in Colorado, as a democrat, and she just dropped out because a guy that worked for her claimed she sexually harassed him.  Should we believe him, or or give her the benefit of the doubt and wait until all of the facts are out?  That's just one guy, not 8 people.  I'm assuming everyone commenting in favor of Moore are fine with her continuing to run though right?  

 

Yes, it's very hard to fight.  Mob mentality is highly contagious especially for "juicy" issues like sexual harassment or  witchcraft. Personally, I withhold judgment until due process is complete. If the claim is not criminal, alleged perpetrators can use libel laws to clear their name.  America is a nation of laws.


Edited by OldMarineVet, Today, 09:23 AM.


#142 vito

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Posted Today, 09:23 AM

Well, maybe we used to be a nation of laws but not so much anymore. Tried and punished in the press, plus seeing VIP's beat the system take some of the faith in "the law" away. 


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#143 OldMarineVet

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Posted Today, 09:29 AM

Well, maybe we used to be a nation of laws but not so much anymore. Tried and punished in the press, plus seeing VIP's beat the system take some of the faith in "the law" away. 

Enter the 1st Amendment. If people and/or the press go beyond that, libel laws can be used.






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    chicagoresident