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Jasper County Shame

tkroenlein

By tkroenlein
in Illinois Right to Keep and Carry

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steveTA84 Member

steveTA84

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Gun Rights Watch:

 

http://gunrightswatch.com/news/2019/12/30/illinois/new-evidence-of-possible-foid-fraud-by-the-state-of-illinois-surfaces/?fbclid=IwAR3hKoR_Q63AhUAlD5f8zw008L4obX0dgEcBeGrQsll2Vq1hxMxZQivUEzk

 

Our friends at Mom-At-Arms uncovered this story through a contact of theirs detailing corruption in the Illinois government and alleging mishandling of Firearm Owner's Identification (FOID) renewal requests, as well as the mishandling of fees collected being used for unintended purposes.

 

Many in Illinois know that the Illinois Sheriffs are being conscripted to go door to door whenever they get a notice that a gun owner's FOID card has been revoked or expired to retrieve the card and potentially, their firearms.

 

What they may not know is that the fees collected from the FOID and CCL systems seem to be routinely stolen, as lawmakers appear to be diverting that money intended for them to other programs. The Mom-At-Arms blog discovered what they say is proof earlier this month that that money was being secretly funneled in other directions. Follow their link to learn more.

 

Sometime last week, a deputy with the Jasper County Sheriffs Office visited a home in Jasper County to deliver the unsettling news that FOID card belonging to the woman that lived there had been revoked or not renewed and that he was there to collect it and to ensure that she no longer had firearms in her possession. She was not home, but the man who was there complied as best he could. Later, he went to Facebook and made this post, which has now gone viral:

 

The worst part about this? Jasper is a dark green Second Amendment Sanctuary County, with comments by the State's Attorney proclaiming that he wouldn't prosecute anyone for violations of the state's new extreme gun control laws, as well as having been one of the first 15 Second Amendment Sanctuary Counties anywhere in the country. Gun Rights Watch first reported that they had passed a resolution way back on July 27th, 2018.

 

The Jasper County Sheriff then relayed his experiences with the Illinois State Police's department that handles FOID requests outlined the fraud that he saw in an open letter written to warn all Jasper County residents. You can read that at the link below.

 

The Mom-At-Arms blog passed this story on to us, and it's worth noting the insidious manner in which the state government has shanghaied Sheriff's Offices throughout Illinois into servitude. This is exactly the sort of chicanery that is being discussed in Virginia, and exactly the sort of nefarious activity that American gun owners everywhere need to be wary of.

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Grayhawk Member

Grayhawk

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Here's how foolish all this is. 20 years ago I bought 4 Glocks. I only have one of them. 2 were transferred to others at least 15 years ago and I kept a record of those transfers for ten years, then those records were destroyed. If I were asked about those guns today, I don't even remember to whom they were transferred. So, for all the guns purchased more than ten years ago one could claim they were transferred and the records were destroyed after ten years. Duh! or Doh! as Bart would say................

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markthesignguy Member

markthesignguy

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You know what is coming next ? ......

The Overlords will demand we keep firearm transfer records FOREVER !

The thing is, that if they do that - the clock STARTS when the law is enacted, and any gun purchase that wasn't subject to the old voluntary check or the new mandatory check and is older than 10 years can be reasonably claimed to be sold and then sales records destroyed after the required 10 year record retention period. There's no way to prove otherwise.

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fxdpntc Member

fxdpntc

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Just my 2 cents but if the FOID was deemed expired, why would a sanctuary county sheriff even come knocking if he truly believed in your 2nd amendment rights as the FOID is an infringement itself.

Because if he didn't, the ISP would.

 

 

Exactly the point - Force the ISP to enforce their own edicts.

 

If you think a visit from the ISP is going to be fun and games, you probably should rethink the issue. Personally, I don't want the ISP on my front porch, but YMMV.

 

ETA. And they very much will enforce their edicts. And it aint going to be officer friendly that shows up. They were made red faced by the Aurora shooter, and they're going to make sure that doesn't happen again.

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Illinois Sucks Member

Illinois Sucks

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...

When your FOID is "revoked," the ISP requests all FFLs that transferred firearms to you to provide them with copies of your 4473s, which includes manufacturer, model, and serial numbers of the firearms. If that list is empty, I suppose they might not do anything. Meanwhile if it's not, they match that list to the list of dispositions they require you to provide to make sure you accounted for them all.

Who is to say those were not sold or transferred to someone else? I thought at the federal level they are not allowed to have lists like that?

 

When you sell or otherwise transfer your firearms to anyone else, you're supposed to keep records of it for 10 years. If you don't, they'll charge you with that.

 

How do they know what guns you have / had to begin with? How would they know if you sold or transferred one if they don't know what you own(ed) to being with?

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Grayhawk Member

Grayhawk

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The ISP has access to records for every gun purchased in IL with a FOID. Read the thread carefully. However, you are right in that they may not have any useful information for guns so purchased over ten years ago. That doesn't mean they will not try to get the disposition information for every gun "bought" in IL that is in their records (uh, "disposition unknown but not in expirees possession" must also be a correct answer). The question is what will/can the ISP do when you shrug your shoulders when asked about those old guns?

 

 

Also, remember that the sheriff is trying to help one regain their FOID before the ISP sticks their jackboot in the door.

 

This is a very interesting thread - I carry my CCL in my wallet but my FOID card is in the gun safe - Heaven forbid I should lose the damn thing and be treated worse than an actual criminal............. :frantics:

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InterestedBystander Member

InterestedBystander

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...

When your FOID is "revoked," the ISP requests all FFLs that transferred firearms to you to provide them with copies of your 4473s, which includes manufacturer, model, and serial numbers of the firearms. If that list is empty, I suppose they might not do anything. Meanwhile if it's not, they match that list to the list of dispositions they require you to provide to make sure you accounted for them all.

 

Who is to say those were not sold or transferred to someone else? I thought at the federal level they are not allowed to have lists like that?

 

When you sell or otherwise transfer your firearms to anyone else, you're supposed to keep records of it for 10 years. If you don't, they'll charge you with that.

 

How do they know what guns you have / had to begin with? How would they know if you sold or transferred one if they don't know what you own(ed) to being with?

Private sales they do not. FFLs call in FTIP. There is a dealer code associated so they can track back. Request all FTIPs for a given FOID, contact the FFL from FTIP for a 4473 associated with it.

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speedbump Member

speedbump

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Better yet, sheriff should tell ISP he is willing to notify folks their FOID has expired but he will not collect expired FOID cards and as the ultimate authority of the county, he forbids ISP officers to attempt to do this in his county.

The sheriff can't "forbid" the ISP from operating in his county. A former Gallatin County sheriff tried to do that in the late 80s, and it resulted in every Trooper in District 19 patrolling his county non stop for weeks. He could join with all others from the Illinois Sheriff's Association to announce they would not participate in any FOID related activities, arrests, or prosecutions; nor assist the ISP in *ANY* capacity.

 

The state's attorney could (SHOULD) do a few things:

1. Publicly announce, and officially notify the ISP that due to the intentionally dysfunctional, (proven) corrupt, and unconstitutional FOID Act, no prosecutions for it will take place in his county (as long as a Federal NICS check can verify good standing if needed).

2. Assist county residents in filing Federal civil rights cases against officers at any level violating his citizens' rights.

3. Refer offending officials involved - especially at the decision making level - to the US Attorney's office for Federal prosecution under 18 USC 241, Conspiracy Against Rights.

 

Either the sheriff and state's attorney stand on previous statements as Constitutional, oath taking officials, or cease making that claim.

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tkroenlein Member

tkroenlein

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Just my 2 cents but if the FOID was deemed expired, why would a sanctuary county sheriff even come knocking if he truly believed in your 2nd amendment rights as the FOID is an infringement itself.

 

 

Because if he didn't, the ISP would.

 

 

 

 

Exactly the point - Force the ISP to enforce their own edicts.

Fair point. ^

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papa Member

papa

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What happened to that case where it was ruled you don't need a FOID to keep a firearm in your residence? Was it limited to a very small jurisdiction of Illinois?

 

It was limited to one single woman in the entire state. Not sure how they managed to justify that..

 

This case was heard at the Illinois Supreme Court and has not been ruled on as of yet .

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mrmagloo Member

mrmagloo

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Because if he didn't, the ISP would.

 

Exactly the point - Force the ISP to enforce their own edicts.

If you think a visit from the ISP is going to be fun and games, you probably should rethink the issue. Personally, I don't want the ISP on my front porch, but YMMV.

 

ETA. And they very much will enforce their edicts. And it aint going to be officer friendly that shows up. They were made red faced by the Aurora shooter, and they're going to make sure that doesn't happen again.

Umm, who said anything about looking forward to a visit from the ISP? While I like Molly's answer even better, my point was, the ISP would get stretched pretty thin if all of the local LEO's refused, and told them to do their own unconstitutional work.

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Euler Member

Euler

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They don't have to contact every FFL in the state, just the ones they know transferred firearms to you. FFLs have their own logins. The ISP knows which of them queried your FOID.

That doesn't mean a gun was purchased.

The number of FFLs that checked your FOID is still much smaller than all the FFLs in the state; and the ISP is still going to ask all of them that did to provide any copies of 4473s associated with those checks. If there wasn't a sale, the FFL can say that; but if there was a sale, the ISP gets the info.

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