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Neither approved nor denied SBR


gtguard

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Submitted the paper work last November. Just received this in the mail.

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COOK COUNTY - DIVISION 4 BLAIR HOLT ASSAULT WEAPONS BAN

Sec. 54-92. - Applicability.

( b )

Pursuant to Article VII, Section 6© of the 1970 Constitution of the State of Illinois, if this article conflicts with an ordinance of a home rule municipality, the municipal ordinance shall prevail within its jurisdiction.

#1 - Please provide documentation to confirm that you are within a home rule municipality, to include it's regulation/ordnance justifying exemption from the Cook County Blair Holt Assault Weapons Ban.

 

I am going to call them tomorrow and figure out what they want.

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Bans prevent possession, not ownership. It is perfectly legal to live under the jurisdiction of an AWB yet still own one. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

would posessing and ownership be the same thing in this case?

 

 

No, possession is the physical act of having the rifle with him in a prohibited place. Ownership is a state of being. He can own the rifle while in the prohibited place but not possess it and he can possess it in a place that is not prohibited.

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Sounds like they want to know where you live and if your city/town/village allows for "assault weapons" ownership. Lazy government making you do their work for them. I'd send them back the actual definition of an "assault weapon" and tell them that's not something you own.

That's what got me. Look at my city, google "gtguard city's municipal code", search for firearm, assault, weapon.

 

For example Chicago has their own AWB, so you could show an existing law, but in many home rule cities there is nothing in the books for "Assault weapons" so they default to the State law which is basically "If you have a FOID get whatever you want".

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Bans prevent possession, not ownership. It is perfectly legal to live under the jurisdiction of an AWB yet still own one. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

would posessing and ownership be the same thing in this case?

 

 

No, possession is the physical act of having the rifle with him in a prohibited place. Ownership is a state of being. He can own the rifle while in the prohibited place but not possess it and he can possess it in a place that is not prohibited.

 

Except an SBR being a firearm registered under the NFA rules makes that situation more complicated. You have to keep it In your possession or under your control at all times.

You can't just give it to your buddy to store at his place outside the prohibited area till you come pick it up like you can with a standard rifle. Not that we are really supposed to believe that's what anyone who lives under a ban actually does. But I guess that's the standard we will go by because we all obey the law to the letter around here.

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No, possession is the physical act of having the rifle with him in a prohibited place. Ownership is a state of being. He can own the rifle while in the prohibited place but not possess it and he can possess it in a place that is not prohibited.

 

Except an SBR being a firearm registered under the NFA rules makes that situation more complicated. You have to keep it In your possession or under your control at all times.

You can't just give it to your buddy to store at his place outside the prohibited area till you come pick it up like you can with a standard rifle. Not that we are really supposed to believe that's what anyone who lives under a ban actually does. But I guess that's the standard we will go by because we all obey the law to the letter around here.

 

 

Just to argue the point a little more, if you're registering the SBR on a trust, your buddy who lives outside the prohibited area could be on the trust and possess the SBR. I guess you could also own property outside of the prohibited area and make a case that locked in your safe on said property is considered under your control. Or maybe not.

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No, possession is the physical act of having the rifle with him in a prohibited place. Ownership is a state of being. He can own the rifle while in the prohibited place but not possess it and he can possess it in a place that is not prohibited.

 

Except an SBR being a firearm registered under the NFA rules makes that situation more complicated. You have to keep it In your possession or under your control at all times.

You can't just give it to your buddy to store at his place outside the prohibited area till you come pick it up like you can with a standard rifle. Not that we are really supposed to believe that's what anyone who lives under a ban actually does. But I guess that's the standard we will go by because we all obey the law to the letter around here.

 

 

Just to argue the point a little more, if you're registering the SBR on a trust, your buddy who lives outside the prohibited area could be on the trust and possess the SBR. I guess you could also own property outside of the prohibited area and make a case that locked in your safe on said property is considered under your control. Or maybe not.

 

Unfortunately for us trusts aren't allowed to own firearms in IL so that's not a route we can take.

As far as what constitutes "under your control" that I'm not sure of what the legalities are.... Is it under your control if you keep it at another property that you own that's not the one listed as your primary residence on the form 1 ? Is it under your control if you keep it locked up in a locker at a 3rd party site ? Good questions....

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Filed a form 1 in 02/17 so I found original post of interest, both the request for additional information and also the original submission date. Was concerned I would see something similar and/or be 3 to 4 more months waiting for approval. Received approved form 1 with stamp today. Filed 02/06/17 no contact until received stamp today.

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Filed a form 1 in 02/17 so I found original post of interest, both the request for additional information and also the original submission date. Was concerned I would see something similar and/or be 3 to 4 more months waiting for approval. Received approved form 1 with stamp today. Filed 02/06/17 no contact until received stamp today.

 

Is your town in Cook County? Is your town Home rule? Are there any local Municipal codes that ban or allow AWB, firearms, etc?
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Filed a form 1 in 02/17 so I found original post of interest, both the request for additional information and also the original submission date. Was concerned I would see something similar and/or be 3 to 4 more months waiting for approval. Received approved form 1 with stamp today. Filed 02/06/17 no contact until received stamp today.

Is your town in Cook County? Is your town Home rule? Are there any local Municipal codes that ban or allow AWB, firearms, etc?

 

Outside Cook County, Home Rule Municipality, no local codes.

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I'm very interested in this. I live in Cook County, in a home rule municipality that does not have specific language. My CLEO signed my Form 1 back before 41f though, so the ATF issued me a stamp.

 

Makes me wonder what would happen if I filed another Form 1 now. If they requested more information, could I just send a photocopy of my previous stamp with my CLEO's signature?

 

The patchwork of laws in this state is so damn frustrating. If the ATF can't even keep track of them all what hope does the average citizen have?

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I'm very interested in this. I live in Cook County, in a home rule municipality that does not have specific language. My CLEO signed my Form 1 back before 41f though, so the ATF issued me a stamp.

 

Makes me wonder what would happen if I filed another Form 1 now. If they requested more information, could I just send a photocopy of my previous stamp with my CLEO's signature?

 

The patchwork of laws in this state is so damn frustrating. If the ATF can't even keep track of them all what hope does the average citizen have?

I am in the exact same boat. Back in the day CLEO signed my forms and they all came back approved in about 6 months. The lady over the phone sounded frustrated too. I don't think there are any home rule municipalities out there that outright list themselves as "assault weapon" havens. From what I understand home rule cities that want an AWB need to pass their own AWB.

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From what I understand home rule cities that want an AWB need to pass their own AWB.

and, iirc, they only had 10 days to do that after passage of the FCCL.

 

http://ilga.gov/legislation/publicacts/98/098-0063.htm

 

...(c ) Notwithstanding subsection (a) of this Section, the

regulation of the possession or ownership of assault weapons

are exclusive powers and functions of this State...

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It all depends on how you define the conflict cited in the constitution.

 

Some believe a home rule ordinance must explicitely state that there is no AWB, or that the Cook ban doesn't apply... or explicitely state that "assault weapons" are legal... otherwise there is a defacto ban under Cook.

 

Others believe that if a home rule has any firearms ordinances and doesn't include an AWB, then that qualifies as a conflict, and "assault weapons" are legal.

 

Still others believe the lack of any firearm ordinance at all qualifies as a conflict, and "assault weapons" are legal.

 

I'm on board with both examples 2 and 3 above, as if the Cook ban ever went away, then there's no specific home rule ban (and no new bans can be enacted), thus "assault weapons" are legal.

 

Keep in mind that conflict doesn't have the same meaning as directly contradict.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

 

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  • 4 months later...

Just got a refund in my account. I am guessing after all this time my applications got denied. Damn COOK county!

Yeah, their AWB taking precedence over a municipality that is ok with you having it...they just dont have a code saying it's ok thus overriding Cook which I suspect would be pretty unusual.

 

Sorry OP!

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I got the money back but have not received the paper work stating why it got rejected. It was really weird to begin with, they basically sent an email asking for a law showing it is legal to own where I live. I just need to move to DuPage. lol

I'm not sure such a law exists in the US. Our laws are written to tell us what we can't do/have. If no law against then it's considered legal to do/own. If I was rich I'd hire a lawyer to sort this out.

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I got the money back but have not received the paper work stating why it got rejected. It was really weird to begin with, they basically sent an email asking for a law showing it is legal to own where I live. I just need to move to DuPage. lol

 

I'm not sure such a law exists in the US. Our laws are written to tell us what we can't do/have. If no law against then it's considered legal to do/own. If I was rich I'd hire a lawyer to sort this out.
Unfortunately, it's probably staying this way until the Home Rule law is re-written. Cant see any municipalities, at least those in HR communities daring to pass such an approval (well, maybe in S IL)
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Finally got the rejection letter. Here is what it says.

 

 

We are unable to approve your submission for the following reason:

The National Firearms Act, Title 26 U.S.C. 5812 states "[a]pplications shall be denied if the transfer, receipt, or possession of the firearm would place the transferee in violation of state law."

 

The application to transfer this firearm appears to violate the Blair Holt Assault Weapons Ban in Cook County, Illinois, absent additional information the Bureau Of Alcohol Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives cannot approve your transfer application.

 

Soooo, what am I supposed to do with the firearms now? I don't want the ATF to shoot my dogs. :frantics:

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Finally got the rejection letter. Here is what it says.

 

 

 

We are unable to approve your submission for the following reason:

The National Firearms Act, Title 26 U.S.C. 5812 states "[a]pplications shall be denied if the transfer, receipt, or possession of the firearm would place the transferee in violation of state law."

 

The application to transfer this firearm appears to violate the Blair Holt Assault Weapons Ban in Cook County, Illinois, absent additional information the Bureau Of Alcohol Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives cannot approve your transfer application.

 

Soooo, what am I supposed to do with the firearms now? I don't want the ATF to shoot my dogs. :frantics:

Even with a letter from someone or some office from the municipality, with no "real" law on the books, no SBR for you (although others here have reported success in Cook). Move out of Cook?
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Finally got the rejection letter. Here is what it says.

 

 

We are unable to approve your submission for the following reason:

The National Firearms Act, Title 26 U.S.C. 5812 states "[a]pplications shall be denied if the transfer, receipt, or possession of the firearm would place the transferee in violation of state law."

 

The application to transfer this firearm appears to violate the Blair Holt Assault Weapons Ban in Cook County, Illinois, absent additional information the Bureau Of Alcohol Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives cannot approve your transfer application.

Soooo, what am I supposed to do with the firearms now? I don't want the ATF to shoot my dogs. :frantics:

Even with a letter from someone or some office from the municipality, with no "real" law on the books, no SBR for you (although others here have reported success in Cook). Move out of Cook?

I have some already. I got them back in the day when you needed CLEO signatures.

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I have some already. I got them back in the day when you needed CLEO signatures.

 

 

Can you contact the ATF and mention that you have another stamp? I mean, the old CLEO signature should count for something in that regard since the whole point of CLEO signature was to indicate that you were not in violation of the law. If worst comes to worse, maybe ask your CLEO if they'd sign a letter saying its legal?

 

Cook County being a home rule county makes everything so confusing. As far as I know, there are only a couple of cities where AWBs are expressly over-ruled. I believe Des Plaines and Hoffman Estates are among them. Are there any others? It would be helpful to list these municipalities with their respective municipal codes.

 

Regardless, my CLEO signed my form and I was planning on submitting another for a 9mm PCC. Now I don't know what to do. I hope you have some luck!

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I have some already. I got them back in the day when you needed CLEO signatures.

 

 

Can you contact the ATF and mention that you have another stamp? I mean, the old CLEO signature should count for something in that regard since the whole point of CLEO signature was to indicate that you were not in violation of the law. If worst comes to worse, maybe ask your CLEO if they'd sign a letter saying its legal?

 

Cook County being a home rule county makes everything so confusing. As far as I know, there are only a couple of cities where AWBs are expressly over-ruled. I believe Des Plaines and Hoffman Estates are among them. Are there any others? It would be helpful to list these municipalities with their respective municipal codes.

 

Regardless, my CLEO signed my form and I was planning on submitting another for a 9mm PCC. Now I don't know what to do. I hope you have some luck!

 

I mean, I don't really have anything to lose so I will ask my CLEO for a letter or something like that. Will be calling the local ATF branch as well on Monday.

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