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Clearing Your Home.......................


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#31 Hatchet

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 11:26 AM

I have for two simple reasons. So i can efficiently and safely get between anyone and the rooms of my 2 children.


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#32 DD123

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 10:40 PM

I've done it more than once, and on each occasion I felt dumber for doing it.  

 

If you hear your door getting kicked in at 3am, you have absolutely no idea of what you're walking into.  None.  

 

Hardly anyone on here has had any sort of actual training on how to clear a home, barring some movies and youtube videos of "tactical operators".  Everyone thinks that they'll become a Seal Team 6 operator, but what will end up happening is you'll be more like Meal Team 6.  

 

If you're an out of shape, 40-50 something year old dude, you likely don't do anything that causes adrenaline dumps for fun, and probably haven't in decades.  You'll get a dump, become tunnel visioned, and be in a position of weakness, versus doing what can give you an upper hand, much like some others have already mentioned in this thread.  

 

I'm 40, and have been shooting for a long time, and have gotten significantly faster, more accurate, and more effective over the last 4 years of competitive shooting.  I have no doubts I'd be able to hit multiple intruders in a very short amount of time.  Do I want to, no.  

 

You hear the door getting kicked in at 3am, secure your family members into one room, lock the door, dial 911, and defend your location.  It's way easier to defend a smaller location than trying to figure out, in the dark, what you're walking into....is it one intruder, two, three, more?  Who knows?  It's not like they're going to tell you.  Let the cops deal with it, while you secure a safe area and make it easier to defend yourself against some intruders.  As soon as you fire the gun, your night vision and hearing are both shot.  

 

There's way too much bravado online.  I've seen how many "gun guys shoot".....they suck.  They suck with no pressure or adrenaline.  Introduce adrenaline and it's even worse.  I've seen many "gun guys" do something that isn't even near as adrenaline inducing as a break in, shoot competitively for the first time.  They completely break down because suddenly they experience pressure.  

 

Remember a few years back those nuts decided to go into a Walmart or Costco shooting and there was a concealed carrier there?  He died.  Why did he die?  He got tunnel vision on the first person he saw, rather than taking a few moments to figure out what's going on by assessing the situation.  

 

I'm not saying everyone on this forum or even this thread isn't competent.  But guns have a tendency of giving people way higher of an opinion of themselves than they should.  The only time you should even think about clearing a house is if you have to fight to gather all of your family members into a single room.  Otherwise it's pretty foolish to try it on your own with absolutely no experience.  A few classes isn't experience.  Special Forces training, and SWAT training is repetitive enough to make you proficient.  If you don't have that training, or heck, even if you do, it's still a dumb thing to do.  Heck, ask someone with a door kicking, Special Forces or SWAT background on what makes more sense for the average gun owner, and they'll agree with me.  They may even agree with me for their own plans of what to do in this scenario.  

 

ETA:  I mean if you're chilling in your drawers watching TV and someone kicks in the door - completely different story.  But physically clearing your home....bad idea.  


Edited by DD123, 27 April 2019 - 10:47 PM.

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#33 tkroenlein

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Posted 28 April 2019 - 09:55 PM

Barricading and calling the cops is not an option for people with families.

#34 TRJ

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 08:24 AM

Barricading and calling the cops is not an option for people with families.


Fair point. It doesn't change the fact that moving room to room hunting the bump in the night is a fool's errand. There's a happy middle. Control the stairway/ hallway to the sleeping areas. Teach the kids to move to a specific room on command, maybe a bathroom with a tub that's central to the bedrooms. I have ideas. I don't have answers. There is a reason SWAT does this wearing armor. Maybe people with kids should have a tac vest with plates in every room. The idea makes me want to puke, but there's no easy answers to this.

#35 Euler

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 10:06 AM

... maybe a bathroom with a tub ...


Steel tubs stop bullets. Fiberglass tubs don't so much.
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#36 RS1

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 01:23 PM

I have for two simple reasons. So i can efficiently and safely get between anyone and the rooms of my 2 children.


Same. And also to be aware of the zones where those rooms are backstops.

#37 Quiet Observer

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 02:12 PM

 

I have for two simple reasons. So i can efficiently and safely get between anyone and the rooms of my 2 children.


Same. And also to be aware of the zones where those rooms are backstops.

 

 

What if that bump in the night is someone coming in through a child's bedroom window?  

It looks like you may have been outflanked.  What if there are assailants coming from other directions?



#38 thobart

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Posted 29 April 2019 - 11:22 PM

Barricading and calling the cops is not an option for people with families.

 

However blocking choke points and having a plan where your family goes to know points in the house helps this greatly.  Robbers or home invaders may not hurt your family but charging into situations without a plan sure can hurt.



#39 Bubbacs

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 05:50 AM

Attackers thru kids windows
Being outflanked
Multiple assailants

No disrespect but where the heck you guys live
Who did you piss off

Some of us need to move, and be sure its a two story.
There's a reason more two stories are built than ranches.
Ranches are for when the kids are gone and it's just you and the misses.

As for the vests with plates......i smiled a bit there, just have them strap ém on under the PJ's!!!

#40 RandyP

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 08:27 AM

When I grow up I wanna-be a Tacticool-Oper8or-Ninja too!

 

Anybody know where I can get me sum 'o them black-ops sunglasses? Oh, and summa them webby vests....and a neato CCW Carry Badge would be GREAT! C'mon Christmas!


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#41 RS1

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 09:16 AM

I have for two simple reasons. So i can efficiently and safely get between anyone and the rooms of my 2 children.

Same. And also to be aware of the zones where those rooms are backstops.
 
What if that bump in the night is someone coming in through a child's bedroom window?  
It looks like you may have been outflanked.  What if there are assailants coming from other directions?
I can only devote so much time to training and planning. I don't have a plan for Spiderman or the SAS. Probably will have to improvise. ;)

My main point was that I try to be very aware of where NOT to shoot as much as where and how to shoot. Flinging lead that may penetrate a bedroom wall is a no-no in my plan.

#42 Bubbacs

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 09:23 AM

When I grow up I wanna-be a Tacticool-Oper8or-Ninja too!
 
Anybody know where I can get me sum 'o them black-ops sunglasses? Oh, and summa them webby vests....and a neato CCW Carry Badge would be GREAT! C'mon Christmas!


Here ya go........

F401DDFF-CCE6-41F3-94D0-C38BAAF23642.png

Edited by Bubbacs, 30 April 2019 - 09:24 AM.


#43 tkroenlein

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 09:42 AM

Barricading and calling the cops is not an option for people with families.


 
However blocking choke points and having a plan where your family goes to know points in the house helps this greatly. Robbers or home invaders may not hurt your family but charging into situations without a plan sure can hurt.


Yes. There's that happy medium I've been looking for. You have to have a plan to move in your home without being a target.

#44 tkroenlein

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 09:45 AM

Attackers thru kids windows
Being outflanked
Multiple assailants
No disrespect but where the heck you guys live
Who did you piss off
Some of us need to move, and be sure its a two story.
There's a reason more two stories are built than ranches.
Ranches are for when the kids are gone and it's just you and the misses.As for the vests with plates......i smiled a bit there, just have them strap ém on under the PJ's!!!


16 township road miles from law enforcement. Nobody is coming to help.

#45 2smartby1/2

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 03:02 PM

Every house and every situation is different.  If someone kicks down my front door, I won't have time to get the wife and kids to a secure location together.  The best location would be the walk-in bedroom closet in the master, but that would mean going and getting the kids from two different rooms....all in plain view of the bad guy.  A better solution would be to control the stairway and wait for the police. 

 

But again....the times I have heard "something" have always turned out to be nothing.  And I don't want to call the police over nothing.  I doubt someone is kicking in my front door at 3 in the morning, so I wake the wife, grab the dog, and go check it out. 

 

So "clearing the house" isn't so much hunting down and killing a bad guy because I'm so tacticool, as it is just confirming that whatever I heard was non a threat.  



#46 quackersmacker

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 03:37 PM

Every house and every situation is different.  If someone kicks down my front door, I won't have time to get the wife and kids to a secure location together.  The best location would be the walk-in bedroom closet in the master, but that would mean going and getting the kids from two different rooms....all in plain view of the bad guy.  A better solution would be to control the stairway and wait for the police. 

 

But again....the times I have heard "something" have always turned out to be nothing.  And I don't want to call the police over nothing.  I doubt someone is kicking in my front door at 3 in the morning, so I wake the wife, grab the dog, and go check it out. 

 

So "clearing the house" isn't so much hunting down and killing a bad guy because I'm so tacticool, as it is just confirming that whatever I heard was non a threat.  

Bingo on numerous points there!


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#47 UrsaMajor

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Posted 21 June 2019 - 12:33 PM

I know I’m posting a couple months later but I was actually torn in what the right answer is. When I took my CCL course I had asked the instructor this very question on whether or not I should be in my “safe room” taking cover with my firearm or engage the perp. Almost everyone in the class laughed and said “what’s a safe room?” but the instructor pretty much said the people who say hide in your safe room are the anti gunners, then he went on to make a joke that he’ll wait for the perp to be 1/3 the way in the window before he shoots so his a** could drop the perp back outside. We all had a good laugh but I was still left a bit confused and I feel that you would know what the right and wrong decision would be if god forbid the time to act really does come at least I would hope so.

#48 brianj - now in Kansas

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Posted 21 June 2019 - 01:37 PM

I know I’m posting a couple months later but I was actually torn in what the right answer is. When I took my CCL course I had asked the instructor this very question on whether or not I should be in my “safe room” taking cover with my firearm or engage the perp. Almost everyone in the class laughed and said “what’s a safe room?” but the instructor pretty much said the people who say hide in your safe room are the anti gunners, then he went on to make a joke that he’ll wait for the perp to be 1/3 the way in the window before he shoots so his a** could drop the perp back outside. We all had a good laugh but I was still left a bit confused and I feel that you would know what the right and wrong decision would be if god forbid the time to act really does come at least I would hope so.

 

Going back to what I think was the second post here, do a FOF class.  I was in (what I believe) was the first class Spartan gave back in early 2015, and Rocco had us doing 2 man clearing drills.  He told us up front that we were gonna get waxed.  Well, we got waxed. 

 

I agree pretty much with TRJ on every point he made in the posts he had in this thread: intent matters.  When you leave a known safe area and try to clear your house with the proven presence of one or more known bad guys, you stand a very good chance of losing that battle.  The only reason that I would consider doing it all is that (like most others here), I have a kid and a mother-in-law in almost opposite sides of the house, and it's my duty to keep them as safe as humanly possible.  It's been the man's duty to keep his family safe since we were sleeping with a spear in front of the cave mouth to keep the wife and kids from turning into sabretooth kitty kibbles.

 

Having said all that, we did have an incident almost a year ago.  We had a home alarm installed (more for the medical panic button feature than anything else), and one night my mother-in-law got up to go to the restroom at 2:00 AM and knocked over a baby gate.  That set off the window break for the bathroom on that side of the house.  I woke up on my feet trying to dive for the pistol safe next to the bed, with my brain completely fuddled, the 110 dB alarm going off right outside our bedroom door (110 dB alarms make a WONDERFUL distraction), and me trying to figure out exactly what was going on.  Critiquing myself later, it was frankly a piddle-poor performance.

 

I'm a little disappointed about the reaction from the class you took to your question, though.  We have a safe room here (used far more to shield us from wandering tornadoes than wandering crackheads, but it would serve both ways).  If you can put a safe room together, it's actually a very VERY good plan.  If I can arm the entire family and keep them in a known safe location, I'm not at all worried about the bad guys.  I can (and have) replaced stuff.  You can't replace people.

 

And planning for a safe room is far better than "planning" on dropping the perp 1/3 of the way into the house.  I can't even begin to describe all the things wrong with that reaction.


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#49 domin8

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Posted 21 June 2019 - 10:03 PM

For me, the answer always back to something I learned when I was a young dumb grunt in the Marines, fresh out of bootcamp in the late 90s. It went something along the lines of, "Prior to Vietnam it wasn't a fair fight against a Marine unless it was 9 on 1. In Vietnam that changed to 1.5:1. Why? In Vietnam we were introduced to fighting in urban environments. That was something we hadn't trained for, and we lost a lot of good Marines because of it. Now we train for it, and are trying to raise that number back up to 9:1, or better." Following the instructional period we began training for Movement Over Urban Terrain, aka MOUT. MOUT has evolved into CQB and CQC, depending in which branch of the military you subscribe to. I originally began this post by typing up my credentials and training over the last few years, but it became so long that even I started to realize most of you would go, "Yeah, Right." So, I'll put it to you like this. I was in Rocco Wlodarek at Black Flag's very first FoF course. I followed that up with his very first FoF2 course. Those courses gave me a 2nd wind for what I had in the Marines, and I pursued things further. MUCH FURTHER, to include VBSS, EP, CQB/CQC in 360° shoot houses, training with former SpecOps Instructors (some of whom are sponsored competitive shooters), etc. However, Rocco taught me something I had never heard before, and haven't heard since his FoF courses. "Nobody knows your home better than you. If you sit in your house with the lights off you'll notice something you haven't noticed before. There's still a lot of light in there. The LED power indicator from your cable box, the LCD display on your stove or microwave displaying the time, etc. These all produce light. If something gets in the way of that light it'll create a shadow. Shadows give away locations. Then you have mirrors and pictures hanging in the wall. They reflect light, making the light brighter in your house. They also can allow you to see who is where in your house. Wooden and painted picture frames don't help you. Brushed nickle, silver, etc. will aid you the same way mirrors do. Criminals aren't looking at pictures and picture frames the same way they would a mirror." Combining Rocco's teachings with what I learned in the Marines with constant MOUT training, I've decided to use pictures and lighting to my advantage from a location where I will be concealed in the dark. This darkness will aid my wife and children to get to a predesignated safety location with no windows for bad guys to flank us, and a whole bunch of guns and ammo, along with an old dead cell phone with a wall charger so they can call 911 (my wife will likely leave her cell phone on the night stand next to the bed). We do have electronic hearing protection for everybody in our house, including our 18 month old daughter). They are interlinked through the head band so if you grab 1 you grab them all. They sit on top of our dresser in the master bedroom right next to my CCW gun. As for a dog, i have a 35 lbs huskydor, and he's very fast and has a very loud bark. He's also a biter. He challenges everything that come through our fence, and has won against black snakes, grey fox, raccoons, and stray cats. If we let you in the house you're good. If not, beware. Not just of him, but of our black cat, too. She enjoys swiping the Achilles Heel of all unsuspecting people. I also have a new alarm system with cameras, sensors on the doors, motion detectors, and glass break sensors. It got a good workout last night with the storm that rolled through that knocked out power. I found out what did and didn't work during last night's storm that knocked out the power to the area. That darkness also allowed me to see my house with no LEDs and LCDs. Surprising, a lot of moonlight made its way in. End result, although I've been a tacticool crayon-eating wannabe operator in the past (let's face it, I was just a grunt -- Marine 0311), I'm not clearing my whole house. Only half of it. That's so I can grab my 3 kids and get them to safety in a designated area, then post up security in a dark corner until the police arrive (preferably), or I have to protect my family with force. Fortunately, the police area very close. The department is on the opposite side of the freeway, and they typically sit at the 7-11 across the street from their department to deter late night beer runs. They'd be in my driveway in 2-3 minutes from the call being made. Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
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#50 Kingcreek

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 02:20 PM

Everybody’s situation is different.
My wife and I live in a secluded rural area. We can’t see our closest neighbors yard lights and the sheriffs dept might only have 2 patrol cars out for the whole county. Response time might be 10 minutes or 30 or more.
I’m not an operator but I was a competitive shooter years ago. No children in the house but have an alarm system and one large dog. I don’t worry much because we are a very low property crime area but we both have loaded handguns in the bedsides and flashlights. I don’t see myself “clearing” the house but I would react to intrusion.
I designed our floor plan and entrances and exterior lighting with security in mind.
If a raccoon knocks a planter over on the deck but the house alarm is not going off, I roll over and go back to sleep.

#51 UrsaMajor

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 04:54 PM

Those FOF classes are great ideas I’ve done some light research on them usually pretty pricey but I think I would benefit from it if I ever get a chance to take a class. Ever since my pitbull and shepherd/mix passed away we took on some rescues so we got a couple of little guys who are just as loud and alert as a Shepard better than nothing I guess haha.

I know I’m posting a couple months later but I was actually torn in what the right answer is. When I took my CCL course I had asked the instructor this very question on whether or not I should be in my “safe room” taking cover with my firearm or engage the perp. Almost everyone in the class laughed and said “what’s a safe room?” but the instructor pretty much said the people who say hide in your safe room are the anti gunners, then he went on to make a joke that he’ll wait for the perp to be 1/3 the way in the window before he shoots so his a** could drop the perp back outside. We all had a good laugh but I was still left a bit confused and I feel that you would know what the right and wrong decision would be if god forbid the time to act really does come at least I would hope so.

 
Going back to what I think was the second post here, do a FOF class.  I was in (what I believe) was the first class Spartan gave back in early 2015, and Rocco had us doing 2 man clearing drills.  He told us up front that we were gonna get waxed.  Well, we got waxed. 
 
I agree pretty much with TRJ on every point he made in the posts he had in this thread: intent matters.  When you leave a known safe area and try to clear your house with the proven presence of one or more known bad guys, you stand a very good chance of losing that battle.  The only reason that I would consider doing it all is that (like most others here), I have a kid and a mother-in-law in almost opposite sides of the house, and it's my duty to keep them as safe as humanly possible.  It's been the man's duty to keep his family safe since we were sleeping with a spear in front of the cave mouth to keep the wife and kids from turning into sabretooth kitty kibbles.
 
Having said all that, we did have an incident almost a year ago.  We had a home alarm installed (more for the medical panic button feature than anything else), and one night my mother-in-law got up to go to the restroom at 2:00 AM and knocked over a baby gate.  That set off the window break for the bathroom on that side of the house.  I woke up on my feet trying to dive for the pistol safe next to the bed, with my brain completely fuddled, the 110 dB alarm going off right outside our bedroom door (110 dB alarms make a WONDERFUL distraction), and me trying to figure out exactly what was going on.  Critiquing myself later, it was frankly a piddle-poor performance.
 
I'm a little disappointed about the reaction from the class you took to your question, though.  We have a safe room here (used far more to shield us from wandering tornadoes than wandering crackheads, but it would serve both ways).  If you can put a safe room together, it's actually a very VERY good plan.  If I can arm the entire family and keep them in a known safe location, I'm not at all worried about the bad guys.  I can (and have) replaced stuff.  You can't replace people.
 
And planning for a safe room is far better than "planning" on dropping the perp 1/3 of the way into the house.  I can't even begin to describe all the things wrong with that reaction.
  

For me, the answer always back to something I learned when I was a young dumb grunt in the Marines, fresh out of bootcamp in the late 90s. It went something along the lines of,

"Prior to Vietnam it wasn't a fair fight against a Marine unless it was 9 on 1. In Vietnam that changed to 1.5:1. Why? In Vietnam we were introduced to fighting in urban environments. That was something we hadn't trained for, and we lost a lot of good Marines because of it. Now we train for it, and are trying to raise that number back up to 9:1, or better."

Following the instructional period we began training for Movement Over Urban Terrain, aka MOUT. MOUT has evolved into CQB and CQC, depending in which branch of the military you subscribe to.

I originally began this post by typing up my credentials and training over the last few years, but it became so long that even I started to realize most of you would go, "Yeah, Right." So, I'll put it to you like this. I was in Rocco Wlodarek at Black Flag's very first FoF course. I followed that up with his very first FoF2 course. Those courses gave me a 2nd wind for what I had in the Marines, and I pursued things further. MUCH FURTHER, to include VBSS, EP, CQB/CQC in 360° shoot houses, training with former SpecOps Instructors (some of whom are sponsored competitive shooters), etc. However, Rocco taught me something I had never heard before, and haven't heard since his FoF courses.

"Nobody knows your home better than you. If you sit in your house with the lights off you'll notice something you haven't noticed before. There's still a lot of light in there. The LED power indicator from your cable box, the LCD display on your stove or microwave displaying the time, etc. These all produce light. If something gets in the way of that light it'll create a shadow. Shadows give away locations.

Then you have mirrors and pictures hanging in the wall. They reflect light, making the light brighter in your house. They also can allow you to see who is where in your house. Wooden and painted picture frames don't help you. Brushed nickle, silver, etc. will aid you the same way mirrors do. Criminals aren't looking at pictures and picture frames the same way they would a mirror."

Combining Rocco's teachings with what I learned in the Marines with constant MOUT training, I've decided to use pictures and lighting to my advantage from a location where I will be concealed in the dark. This darkness will aid my wife and children to get to a predesignated safety location with no windows for bad guys to flank us, and a whole bunch of guns and ammo, along with an old dead cell phone with a wall charger so they can call 911 (my wife will likely leave her cell phone on the night stand next to the bed).

We do have electronic hearing protection for everybody in our house, including our 18 month old daughter). They are interlinked through the head band so if you grab 1 you grab them all. They sit on top of our dresser in the master bedroom right next to my CCW gun.

As for a dog, i have a 35 lbs huskydor, and he's very fast and has a very loud bark. He's also a biter. He challenges everything that come through our fence, and has won against black snakes, grey fox, raccoons, and stray cats. If we let you in the house you're good. If not, beware. Not just of him, but of our black cat, too. She enjoys swiping the Achilles Heel of all unsuspecting people.

I also have a new alarm system with cameras, sensors on the doors, motion detectors, and glass break sensors. It got a good workout last night with the storm that rolled through that knocked out power. I found out what did and didn't work during last night's storm that knocked out the power to the area. That darkness also allowed me to see my house with no LEDs and LCDs. Surprising, a lot of moonlight made its way in.

End result, although I've been a tacticool crayon-eating wannabe operator in the past (let's face it, I was just a grunt -- Marine 0311), I'm not clearing my whole house. Only half of it. That's so I can grab my 3 kids and get them to safety in a designated area, then post up security in a dark corner until the police arrive (preferably), or I have to protect my family with force. Fortunately, the police area very close. The department is on the opposite side of the freeway, and they typically sit at the 7-11 across the street from their department to deter late night beer runs. They'd be in my driveway in 2-3 minutes from the call being made.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk



#52 Bacon!

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Posted 23 June 2019 - 11:38 AM

https://youtu.be/qTTlEdDJzVA John Lovell commentating on force on force room clearing footage from a class he instructed.

I just watched this video last night and immediately thought of this thread.
I’ve never had any FOF training and I’m not entirely sure if I would or would not clear my house in the event of an intruder. Of course details of the situation would dictate the decision.
However, Knowing how to clear your own house is never a bad idea. Dry practice in your house is free and harms no one. It doesn’t automatically make you a wanna be “operator” just adding tools to the tool belt.

#53 brianj - now in Kansas

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Posted 23 June 2019 - 01:57 PM

Those FOF classes are great ideas I’ve done some light research on them usually pretty pricey but I think I would benefit from it if I ever get a chance to take a class. Ever since my pitbull and shepherd/mix passed away we took on some rescues so we got a couple of little guys who are just as loud and alert as a Shepard better than nothing I guess haha.
I know I’m posting a couple months later but I was actually torn in what the right answer is. When I took my CCL course I had asked the instructor this very question on whether or not I should be in my “safe room” taking cover with my firearm or engage the perp. Almost everyone in the class laughed and said “what’s a safe room?” but the instructor pretty much said the people who say hide in your safe room are the anti gunners, then he went on to make a joke that he’ll wait for the perp to be 1/3 the way in the window before he shoots so his a** could drop the perp back outside. We all had a good laugh but I was still left a bit confused and I feel that you would know what the right and wrong decision would be if god forbid the time to act really does come at least I would hope so.
 
Going back to what I think was the second post here, do a FOF class.  I was in (what I believe) was the first class Spartan gave back in early 2015, and Rocco had us doing 2 man clearing drills.  He told us up front that we were gonna get waxed.  Well, we got waxed. 
 
I agree pretty much with TRJ on every point he made in the posts he had in this thread: intent matters.  When you leave a known safe area and try to clear your house with the proven presence of one or more known bad guys, you stand a very good chance of losing that battle.  The only reason that I would consider doing it all is that (like most others here), I have a kid and a mother-in-law in almost opposite sides of the house, and it's my duty to keep them as safe as humanly possible.  It's been the man's duty to keep his family safe since we were sleeping with a spear in front of the cave mouth to keep the wife and kids from turning into sabretooth kitty kibbles.
 
Having said all that, we did have an incident almost a year ago.  We had a home alarm installed (more for the medical panic button feature than anything else), and one night my mother-in-law got up to go to the restroom at 2:00 AM and knocked over a baby gate.  That set off the window break for the bathroom on that side of the house.  I woke up on my feet trying to dive for the pistol safe next to the bed, with my brain completely fuddled, the 110 dB alarm going off right outside our bedroom door (110 dB alarms make a WONDERFUL distraction), and me trying to figure out exactly what was going on.  Critiquing myself later, it was frankly a piddle-poor performance.
 
I'm a little disappointed about the reaction from the class you took to your question, though.  We have a safe room here (used far more to shield us from wandering tornadoes than wandering crackheads, but it would serve both ways).  If you can put a safe room together, it's actually a very VERY good plan.  If I can arm the entire family and keep them in a known safe location, I'm not at all worried about the bad guys.  I can (and have) replaced stuff.  You can't replace people.
 
And planning for a safe room is far better than "planning" on dropping the perp 1/3 of the way into the house.  I can't even begin to describe all the things wrong with that reaction.  For me, the answer always back to something I learned when I was a young dumb grunt in the Marines, fresh out of bootcamp in the late 90s. It went something along the lines of,
"Prior to Vietnam it wasn't a fair fight against a Marine unless it was 9 on 1. In Vietnam that changed to 1.5:1. Why? In Vietnam we were introduced to fighting in urban environments. That was something we hadn't trained for, and we lost a lot of good Marines because of it. Now we train for it, and are trying to raise that number back up to 9:1, or better."
Following the instructional period we began training for Movement Over Urban Terrain, aka MOUT. MOUT has evolved into CQB and CQC, depending in which branch of the military you subscribe to.
I originally began this post by typing up my credentials and training over the last few years, but it became so long that even I started to realize most of you would go, "Yeah, Right." So, I'll put it to you like this. I was in Rocco Wlodarek at Black Flag's very first FoF course. I followed that up with his very first FoF2 course. Those courses gave me a 2nd wind for what I had in the Marines, and I pursued things further. MUCH FURTHER, to include VBSS, EP, CQB/CQC in 360° shoot houses, training with former SpecOps Instructors (some of whom are sponsored competitive shooters), etc. However, Rocco taught me something I had never heard before, and haven't heard since his FoF courses.
"Nobody knows your home better than you. If you sit in your house with the lights off you'll notice something you haven't noticed before. There's still a lot of light in there. The LED power indicator from your cable box, the LCD display on your stove or microwave displaying the time, etc. These all produce light. If something gets in the way of that light it'll create a shadow. Shadows give away locations.
Then you have mirrors and pictures hanging in the wall. They reflect light, making the light brighter in your house. They also can allow you to see who is where in your house. Wooden and painted picture frames don't help you. Brushed nickle, silver, etc. will aid you the same way mirrors do. Criminals aren't looking at pictures and picture frames the same way they would a mirror."
Combining Rocco's teachings with what I learned in the Marines with constant MOUT training, I've decided to use pictures and lighting to my advantage from a location where I will be concealed in the dark. This darkness will aid my wife and children to get to a predesignated safety location with no windows for bad guys to flank us, and a whole bunch of guns and ammo, along with an old dead cell phone with a wall charger so they can call 911 (my wife will likely leave her cell phone on the night stand next to the bed).
We do have electronic hearing protection for everybody in our house, including our 18 month old daughter). They are interlinked through the head band so if you grab 1 you grab them all. They sit on top of our dresser in the master bedroom right next to my CCW gun.
As for a dog, i have a 35 lbs huskydor, and he's very fast and has a very loud bark. He's also a biter. He challenges everything that come through our fence, and has won against black snakes, grey fox, raccoons, and stray cats. If we let you in the house you're good. If not, beware. Not just of him, but of our black cat, too. She enjoys swiping the Achilles Heel of all unsuspecting people.
I also have a new alarm system with cameras, sensors on the doors, motion detectors, and glass break sensors. It got a good workout last night with the storm that rolled through that knocked out power. I found out what did and didn't work during last night's storm that knocked out the power to the area. That darkness also allowed me to see my house with no LEDs and LCDs. Surprising, a lot of moonlight made its way in.
End result, although I've been a tacticool crayon-eating wannabe operator in the past (let's face it, I was just a grunt -- Marine 0311), I'm not clearing my whole house. Only half of it. That's so I can grab my 3 kids and get them to safety in a designated area, then post up security in a dark corner until the police arrive (preferably), or I have to protect my family with force. Fortunately, the police area very close. The department is on the opposite side of the freeway, and they typically sit at the 7-11 across the street from their department to deter late night beer runs. They'd be in my driveway in 2-3 minutes from the call being made.
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Domin8 and I were in the same class: I misremembered the name of the group - I’ve done some training out here recently with a group named Spartan, and my brain did the substitution. I’d had some combat arms experience as well, but an M-1 Abrams takes a completely different approach to clearing a house.

I don’t know if Rocco and Black Flag are still providing training or not. I haven’t seen much from them lately. If they ARE still there, I highly recommend them. It may seem a little expensive, but as others have said, you’ll be a lot better off prioritizing training over almost anything else gun related.

Bri


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"Your father's 1911..  Not as random or clumsy as a Glock.  A more elegant weapon for a more civilized age." -- Obi Wan Kenobi


#54 ScopeEye

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Posted 23 June 2019 - 09:10 PM

I just send wife in...

They will surrender


Edited by ScopeEye, 23 June 2019 - 09:11 PM.


#55 UrsaMajor

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Posted 26 June 2019 - 04:19 PM

Those FOF classes are great ideas I’ve done some light research on them usually pretty pricey but I think I would benefit from it if I ever get a chance to take a class. Ever since my pitbull and shepherd/mix passed away we took on some rescues so we got a couple of little guys who are just as loud and alert as a Shepard better than nothing I guess haha.
I know I’m posting a couple months later but I was actually torn in what the right answer is. When I took my CCL course I had asked the instructor this very question on whether or not I should be in my “safe room” taking cover with my firearm or engage the perp. Almost everyone in the class laughed and said “what’s a safe room?” but the instructor pretty much said the people who say hide in your safe room are the anti gunners, then he went on to make a joke that he’ll wait for the perp to be 1/3 the way in the window before he shoots so his a** could drop the perp back outside. We all had a good laugh but I was still left a bit confused and I feel that you would know what the right and wrong decision would be if god forbid the time to act really does come at least I would hope so.
 
Going back to what I think was the second post here, do a FOF class.  I was in (what I believe) was the first class Spartan gave back in early 2015, and Rocco had us doing 2 man clearing drills.  He told us up front that we were gonna get waxed.  Well, we got waxed. 
 
I agree pretty much with TRJ on every point he made in the posts he had in this thread: intent matters.  When you leave a known safe area and try to clear your house with the proven presence of one or more known bad guys, you stand a very good chance of losing that battle.  The only reason that I would consider doing it all is that (like most others here), I have a kid and a mother-in-law in almost opposite sides of the house, and it's my duty to keep them as safe as humanly possible.  It's been the man's duty to keep his family safe since we were sleeping with a spear in front of the cave mouth to keep the wife and kids from turning into sabretooth kitty kibbles.
 
Having said all that, we did have an incident almost a year ago.  We had a home alarm installed (more for the medical panic button feature than anything else), and one night my mother-in-law got up to go to the restroom at 2:00 AM and knocked over a baby gate.  That set off the window break for the bathroom on that side of the house.  I woke up on my feet trying to dive for the pistol safe next to the bed, with my brain completely fuddled, the 110 dB alarm going off right outside our bedroom door (110 dB alarms make a WONDERFUL distraction), and me trying to figure out exactly what was going on.  Critiquing myself later, it was frankly a piddle-poor performance.
 
I'm a little disappointed about the reaction from the class you took to your question, though.  We have a safe room here (used far more to shield us from wandering tornadoes than wandering crackheads, but it would serve both ways).  If you can put a safe room together, it's actually a very VERY good plan.  If I can arm the entire family and keep them in a known safe location, I'm not at all worried about the bad guys.  I can (and have) replaced stuff.  You can't replace people.
 
And planning for a safe room is far better than "planning" on dropping the perp 1/3 of the way into the house.  I can't even begin to describe all the things wrong with that reaction.  For me, the answer always back to something I learned when I was a young dumb grunt in the Marines, fresh out of bootcamp in the late 90s. It went something along the lines of,
"Prior to Vietnam it wasn't a fair fight against a Marine unless it was 9 on 1. In Vietnam that changed to 1.5:1. Why? In Vietnam we were introduced to fighting in urban environments. That was something we hadn't trained for, and we lost a lot of good Marines because of it. Now we train for it, and are trying to raise that number back up to 9:1, or better."
Following the instructional period we began training for Movement Over Urban Terrain, aka MOUT. MOUT has evolved into CQB and CQC, depending in which branch of the military you subscribe to.
I originally began this post by typing up my credentials and training over the last few years, but it became so long that even I started to realize most of you would go, "Yeah, Right." So, I'll put it to you like this. I was in Rocco Wlodarek at Black Flag's very first FoF course. I followed that up with his very first FoF2 course. Those courses gave me a 2nd wind for what I had in the Marines, and I pursued things further. MUCH FURTHER, to include VBSS, EP, CQB/CQC in 360° shoot houses, training with former SpecOps Instructors (some of whom are sponsored competitive shooters), etc. However, Rocco taught me something I had never heard before, and haven't heard since his FoF courses.
"Nobody knows your home better than you. If you sit in your house with the lights off you'll notice something you haven't noticed before. There's still a lot of light in there. The LED power indicator from your cable box, the LCD display on your stove or microwave displaying the time, etc. These all produce light. If something gets in the way of that light it'll create a shadow. Shadows give away locations.
Then you have mirrors and pictures hanging in the wall. They reflect light, making the light brighter in your house. They also can allow you to see who is where in your house. Wooden and painted picture frames don't help you. Brushed nickle, silver, etc. will aid you the same way mirrors do. Criminals aren't looking at pictures and picture frames the same way they would a mirror."
Combining Rocco's teachings with what I learned in the Marines with constant MOUT training, I've decided to use pictures and lighting to my advantage from a location where I will be concealed in the dark. This darkness will aid my wife and children to get to a predesignated safety location with no windows for bad guys to flank us, and a whole bunch of guns and ammo, along with an old dead cell phone with a wall charger so they can call 911 (my wife will likely leave her cell phone on the night stand next to the bed).
We do have electronic hearing protection for everybody in our house, including our 18 month old daughter). They are interlinked through the head band so if you grab 1 you grab them all. They sit on top of our dresser in the master bedroom right next to my CCW gun.
As for a dog, i have a 35 lbs huskydor, and he's very fast and has a very loud bark. He's also a biter. He challenges everything that come through our fence, and has won against black snakes, grey fox, raccoons, and stray cats. If we let you in the house you're good. If not, beware. Not just of him, but of our black cat, too. She enjoys swiping the Achilles Heel of all unsuspecting people.
I also have a new alarm system with cameras, sensors on the doors, motion detectors, and glass break sensors. It got a good workout last night with the storm that rolled through that knocked out power. I found out what did and didn't work during last night's storm that knocked out the power to the area. That darkness also allowed me to see my house with no LEDs and LCDs. Surprising, a lot of moonlight made its way in.
End result, although I've been a tacticool crayon-eating wannabe operator in the past (let's face it, I was just a grunt -- Marine 0311), I'm not clearing my whole house. Only half of it. That's so I can grab my 3 kids and get them to safety in a designated area, then post up security in a dark corner until the police arrive (preferably), or I have to protect my family with force. Fortunately, the police area very close. The department is on the opposite side of the freeway, and they typically sit at the 7-11 across the street from their department to deter late night beer runs. They'd be in my driveway in 2-3 minutes from the call being made.
Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


Domin8 and I were in the same class: I misremembered the name of the group - I’ve done some training out here recently with a group named Spartan, and my brain did the substitution. I’d had some combat arms experience as well, but an M-1 Abrams takes a completely different approach to clearing a house.

I don’t know if Rocco and Black Flag are still providing training or not. I haven’t seen much from them lately. If they ARE still there, I highly recommend them. It may seem a little expensive, but as others have said, you’ll be a lot better off prioritizing training over almost anything else gun related.

Bri


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Great advice and I’ll definitely look in to those I know I’ve seen those spartan classes I’ll eventually take one. Your right training is very important. I remember shooting for over a year at least once or twice a month if I could before I took my ccl class even though there was people that day saying they haven’t shot in years but yet they’re here taking the class, to each their own I guess. None the less thank you for the advice much appreciated.
Ben

#56 UrsaMajor

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Posted 26 June 2019 - 04:20 PM

I just send wife in...
They will surrender

Lol

#57 UrsaMajor

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Posted 26 June 2019 - 04:53 PM

https://youtu.be/qTTlEdDJzVA John Lovell commentating on force on force room clearing footage from a class he instructed.
I just watched this video last night and immediately thought of this thread.
I’ve never had any FOF training and I’m not entirely sure if I would or would not clear my house in the event of an intruder. Of course details of the situation would dictate the decision.
However, Knowing how to clear your own house is never a bad idea. Dry practice in your house is free and harms no one. It doesn’t automatically make you a wanna be “operator” just adding tools to the tool belt.

Ya I’ve been subscribed to his channel warrior poet society along with others are awesome I’m not military or police trained so I’ll take as much advise as I could get (as long as it’s good) but taking classes is definitely the next step.




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