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Wilson v. Cook County (Semi-Auto Gun Ban)


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#721 civilone

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 09:38 AM

I wonder what the Illinois militia would require for us to show up with if there was an Illinois militia?  Is there an Illinois militia?



#722 Twostarrz

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 09:55 AM

I wonder what the Illinois militia would require for us to show up with if there was an Illinois militia?  Is there an Illinois militia?


Why not start one? We can get together for “training” once a month.

#723 g00dleuky

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 10:33 AM

Bonus:  You're already a member!

 

See the Illinois constitution:

http://www.ilga.gov/...n/lrb/con12.htm

 

Not sure what laws the state legislature has made to

 "provide by law for the
organization, equipment and discipline of the militia"

Edited by g00dleuky, 09 August 2018 - 10:34 AM.


#724 tchostler

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 10:37 AM

laying the ground work for a statewide ban on all semi auto firearms.



#725 GP4L

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 11:05 AM

So, with this "ruling" - does it actually change anything for an individual living in a town inside of Crook, that have owned leftist-defined "assault" weapons for years?  Asking for a friend with a CCL that carries an AR pistol w/standard capacity magazines in their vehicle... 



#726 2smartby1/2

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 11:12 AM

I'm probably more "pro-regulation" than most on here...but I do have an issue with the particular argument the judge used. 

 

In their challenge, the plaintiff’s alleged that the ban strikes at the heart of the Second Amendment. The judge, however, wrote, “The Second Amendment does not guarantee a private right to possess a type of weapon (such as a machine gun or a sawed-off shotgun) that the government would not expect citizens to bring with them when called to serve in the militia.”

 

Machine guns and sawed off shotguns?  No one in Illinois would show up with a machine gun or a sawed off shot gun (less than 18"s) in Illinois because they are already illegal to own in the state.   

 

Outside of shotguns, my assumption is that a huge chunk of people would show up with AR-15's, followed by AK-47's, and some Mini-14's (which are technically not assault weapons).   

 

If the judge wants to argue organized vs unorganized militia, I could understand that.   But what he stated makes zero sense.  The most common rifle sold today is basically what our military uses (minus full auto)....so...I'm not sure what point the judge is trying to make. 



#727 TRJ

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 01:58 PM

Another day in Illinois, another kick in the pants.  :no:



#728 Druid

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 02:36 PM

As others have stated above, the court dismissed Wilson vs. Cook County because of the Seventh Circuit’s opinion in Friedman v. Highland Park.  

 

It's a bad result, but not unexpected at this court.

 

After reading the order, I see the judge clearly made many errors and stated wrong facts.

 

Next step: Appeal to the Seventh Circuit.



#729 mikew

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 07:43 AM

I'm probably more "pro-regulation" than most on here...but I do have an issue with the particular argument the judge used. 

 

In their challenge, the plaintiff’s alleged that the ban strikes at the heart of the Second Amendment. The judge, however, wrote, “The Second Amendment does not guarantee a private right to possess a type of weapon (such as a machine gun or a sawed-off shotgun) that the government would not expect citizens to bring with them when called to serve in the militia.”

 

Machine guns and sawed off shotguns?  No one in Illinois would show up with a machine gun or a sawed off shot gun (less than 18"s) in Illinois because they are already illegal to own in the state.   

 

Outside of shotguns, my assumption is that a huge chunk of people would show up with AR-15's, followed by AK-47's, and some Mini-14's (which are technically not assault weapons).   

 

If the judge wants to argue organized vs unorganized militia, I could understand that.   But what he stated makes zero sense.  The most common rifle sold today is basically what our military uses (minus full auto)....so...I'm not sure what point the judge is trying to make. 

The opinion by McRenolds in US v Miller contains the following, which the anti's used for decades to mean that you had no RKBA:
 

The Court cannot take judicial notice that a shotgun having a barrel less than 18 inches long has today any reasonable relation to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia, and therefore cannot say that the Second Amendment guarantees to the citizen the right to keep and bear such a weapon.

 

In the absence of any evidence tending to show that possession or use of a "shotgun having a barrel of less than eighteen inches in length" at this time has some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia, we cannot say that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear such an instrument. Certainly it is not within judicial notice that this weapon is any part of the ordinary military equipment, or that its use could contribute to the common defense.
 

But in fact a short barrel shotgun was extremely effective in the war fought just 20 years prior to this, in trench warfare.

 

There was simply no one there to argue for the defense in this case. (US v Miller, 1939) This remained the last 2nd Amendment case with a SCOTUS ruling until DC v Heller.



#730 Euler

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 01:05 PM

...
But in fact a short barrel shotgun was extremely effective in the war fought just 20 years prior to this, in trench warfare.
...


Unfortunately there is little documentation of the use of shotguns ("trench guns") in WW I. No photographs exist of American soldiers even in the same frame as a shotgun. Historians have conjectured the War Department issued an order to destroy any such evidence, because that's the only way to explain the lack of documentation. There are photos of shotguns, clearly in a trench environment, but only the guns themselves, no people.

The use of "trench guns" was banned by the Hague Convention, which the US did not sign. Nevertheless, when the British and French used them, the Germans did not object. When Americans used them, however, the Germans objected, so it became a politically sensitive topic.
The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants, and it provides the further advantage of giving the servants of tyranny a good conscience.
- Albert Camus, Resistance, Rebellion, and Death, 1960.

#731 McCroskey

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Posted 09 November 2018 - 07:17 PM

What's the status of appeal to the Seventh?


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