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#1 luckydawg13

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 12:44 PM

OK I want to the kane County gun show on Sunday There was a hand written sign that said all firearms must be onloaded including concealed carry firearms There was no Beretta with the red line Through it
sign is this legal Just a hand written sign like that Sent from my smarter than me phone

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#2 THE KING

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 12:48 PM

NO



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#3 Craigcelia

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 12:51 PM

NO

Simple Statement.  I like it.

 

On another note, could that building be determined to be a county owned building?


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#4 THE KING

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 12:53 PM

 

NO

Simple Statement.  I like it.

 

On another note, could that building be determined to be a county owned building?

 

Good Question. BUT, who knows, that's why it needs the correct signage or your good to go.



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#5 luckydawg13

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 01:01 PM

Thanks guys that was what I was thinking too

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#6 InterestedBystander

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 01:11 PM

Thats not a new thing there. That sign has been up at the gun show there for a long time iirc. It is the fairgrounds but no idea if county owned/managed or is private.

edit: Private unless things have changed from the original (and ancient) article.

The Kane County Fair Association, a private nonprofit organization, owns the existing 80-acre fairgrounds at Randall Road and Ill. Hwy. 38, just west of St. Charles.

http://articles.chic...ds-land-parking

Edited by InterestedBystander, 13 February 2018 - 01:37 PM.

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#7 luckydawg13

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 01:31 PM

So it's legal to carry there
And the sign means nothing

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#8 Bitter Clinger

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 02:10 PM

Why you'd schedule a gun show at a facility that doesn't allow guns is just strange.

#9 Quiet Observer

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 02:48 PM

As noted by InterestedBystander  the fairgrounds are private property, not government property.  

The holders of the show, or the fairgrounds association can request what they want, but without the legal sign, do what you wish.

 

The FCCA allows the owner of the property to forbid bringing in a firearm, it does not specifically state the property owner can designate

that only unloaded firearms are allowed.  You can or cannot bring in a firearm.  Loaded or unloaded is at your discretion. 

The is no "Unloaded Gun Only" sign designated in the law.



#10 Alby

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 03:15 PM

They may be required to post, should have proper signage. They may have to obtain a permit for the snow or any raffles.
To disarm the people is the best and most effective way to enslave them.
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Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt

#11 soylentgreen

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 03:23 PM

I suppose if they find  you're carrying, they could ask you to leave. But, you're not breaking any law.



#12 soylentgreen

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 03:25 PM

Why you'd schedule a gun show at a facility that doesn't allow guns is just strange.

 

This is a great question.

 

Why would a pro-gun congressman or state rep hold a "townhall meeting" at a posted location? This actually happened recently.



#13 luckydawg13

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 03:46 PM

Thank you all


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#14 RandyP

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 04:34 PM

​If my aging memory serves I've been to several Indiana gun shows that required all firearms brought into the building to be unloaded and safety zip-tied. Concealed or not.


Edited by RandyP, 13 February 2018 - 04:34 PM.


#15 wtr100

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 06:16 PM

So it's legal to carry there
And the sign means nothing

 

if you do it right how would they know?


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#16 wtr100

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 06:20 PM

 

Why you'd schedule a gun show at a facility that doesn't allow guns is just strange.

 

This is a great question.

 

Why would a pro-gun congressman or state rep hold a "townhall meeting" at a posted location? This actually happened recently.

 

 

 

because carry isn't a big deal in their lives, it's probably almost impossible to a rep / congressman or someone on their staff to legally carry so they don't really pay much attention to the law.

 

Just guessing but bet it's at least a fair part of it  


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#17 MagSlap

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 09:43 PM

I passed on the Kane show cuz I was at the Dupage Show last week....

Regardless of the signage......

How was it?

 

Last week I scored 'the buy of the day'....

Somebody was there saying he was 'selling out..1 day..thats it...' and I picked up a few boxes of remington 38 special silver tips for 15 bux a box. Mind you, I've only 'heard of them'..Never saw them on a shelf but knew they were good SD rounds.

I asked em..."Were they in a flood?" (grin).... Inspected the rounds..factory boxes etc..all was good.

I got home...and checked em online for 40+ a box!  I should have cleaned em out!



#18 RANDY

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 04:32 AM

Just a thought, but could the people requesting that you unload your EDC firearm to possibly prevent the ID10T people from trying different holsters with their loaded firearm.  


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#19 luckydawg13

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 06:36 AM

Just a thought, but could the people requesting that you unload your EDC firearm to possibly prevent the ID10T people from trying different holsters with their loaded firearm.  

I do not think so  it was at the front door not at a table   


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#20 drumgod

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 09:02 AM

Interesting. Which front door? I think there's like five buildings and two or three gates. It's been close to a year since I've been there but I have not seen any signage, official or otherwise, and I've carried there a half dozen times. Not at a gun show though.  Unless something has changed I believe the "requirement" is at the request of the show organizers, not the fairground.

 

The last gun show I went to (Kendall County) was not posted in any way.  There was however a staff member and a uniformed (off-duty I'm assuming) police officer just inside the door notifying everyone that loaded weapons were not permitted, asking if anyone was carrying, then supervising unloading and cable tying each of the actions. I suppose I don't really mind.  The cheap ties they were using were so brittle that briskly racking the slide snapped it. I was reloaded seconds after leaving.

 

At the handful of gun shows I've attended over the last couple years the general rule of thumb seems to be that you can bring your gun. It just can't be loaded and they'll probably cable tie it "for safety".



#21 Xwing

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 10:20 AM

Interesting. Which front door? I think there's like five buildings and two or three gates. It's been close to a year since I've been there but I have not seen any signage, official or otherwise, and I've carried there a half dozen times. Not at a gun show though.  Unless something has changed I believe the "requirement" is at the request of the show organizers, not the fairground.

 

The last gun show I went to (Kendall County) was not posted in any way.  There was however a staff member and a uniformed (off-duty I'm assuming) police officer just inside the door notifying everyone that loaded weapons were not permitted, asking if anyone was carrying, then supervising unloading and cable tying each of the actions. I suppose I don't really mind.  The cheap ties they were using were so brittle that briskly racking the slide snapped it. I was reloaded seconds after leaving.

 

At the handful of gun shows I've attended over the last couple years the general rule of thumb seems to be that you can bring your gun. It just can't be loaded and they'll probably cable tie it "for safety".

 

This bothers me a great deal if it's at the request of the show organizers.

If it is a "criminal protection zone" by statute, then I'll grit my teeth and leave my firearm in the car.  But if it's by choice, why would anyone pro-2a (such as all the attendees) want to do business there?


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#22 soylentgreen

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 12:19 PM

 

 

Why you'd schedule a gun show at a facility that doesn't allow guns is just strange.

 

This is a great question.

 

Why would a pro-gun congressman or state rep hold a "townhall meeting" at a posted location? This actually happened recently.

 

 

 

because carry isn't a big deal in their lives, it's probably almost impossible to a rep / congressman or someone on their staff to legally carry so they don't really pay much attention to the law.

 

Just guessing but bet it's at least a fair part of it  

 

 

If I were an elected official, I'd carry for sure. They are very likely to come across any number of whacked-out individuals. I mean...I'm not an elected official...and I carry everyday.

In any case, I'm quite certain a state rep or senator can carry in places you can't when in performance of their official duties. For instance, they may carry in the state house because they are immune from arrest and prosecution with some specific exceptions:

 

"Article IV; SECTION 12. LEGISLATIVE IMMUNITY  Except in cases of treason, felony or breach of peace, a member shall be privileged from arrest going to, during, and returning from sessions of the General Assembly."

 

Since carrying in a posted GFZ is not a felony, I'm guessing they're good to go.



#23 Bitter Clinger

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 12:49 PM

"Article IV; SECTION 12. LEGISLATIVE IMMUNITY Except in cases of treason, felony or breach of peace, a member shall be privileged from arrest going to, during, and returning from sessions of the General Assembly."

Gotta love how the politicians create laws to protect themselves.
I guess they're special.

#24 gangrel

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 02:01 PM

As noted by InterestedBystander  the fairgrounds are private property, not government property.  
The holders of the show, or the fairgrounds association can request what they want, but without the legal sign, do what you wish.
 
The FCCA allows the owner of the property to forbid bringing in a firearm, it does not specifically state the property owner can designate
that only unloaded firearms are allowed.  You can or cannot bring in a firearm.  Loaded or unloaded is at your discretion. 
The is no "Unloaded Gun Only" sign designated in the law.

You most certainly CAN bring an unloaded, cased firearm into many places where you cannot legally bring a loaded, holstered, concealed firearm. The FCCA does not allow tge owner to decide WHO the sign does and does not apply to, but regardless, it only applies to FCCA licensees carrying their concealed firearms. This is the old transport vs. carry debate. The No Berettas sign, even if posted in its legally enforceable glory, applies to firearms carried in accordance with the FCCA by a licensee. An unloaded, cased firearm transported by a FOID holder (yes, even if using his FCCL as a legal proxy for his FOID) is not impacted.

As an example, I take part in organized shooting activities at a suburban police department from time to time. The building is posted in accordance with the FCCA. My firearm must be unloaded and cased when I enter the building. Once on the firing line, it is uncased, loaded and holstered (part of a hosted activity, NO CCL REQUIRED, so NOT carried as a licensee). After shooting is done, firearm is cleared and cased. Then we leave. Note, none of this runs afoul of the FCCA or the No Berettas sign on the door.

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Edited by gangrel, 14 February 2018 - 02:07 PM.

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#25 rebel49

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 12:14 AM

Yeah I did the first Kendall Co. gun show last fall. No signage on the door, Paid their $6.00 entry and then was told clear my firearm if I was carrying. They had a Andy Frain armed security guard putting zip ties on the guns. He never got mine to hook up so it kept falling off. I told him I'd leave the sllde locked back and in my holster.

Had I known they were doing this and charging that much for a crappy show I would have turned and walked away. The show was a real nothing show. And I will not be attending another.


Edited by rebel49, 15 February 2018 - 12:16 AM.


#26 Quiet Observer

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 09:08 AM

Yeah I did the first Kendall Co. gun show last fall. No signage on the door, Paid their $6.00 entry and then was told clear my firearm if I was carrying. They had a Andy Frain armed security guard putting zip ties on the guns. He never got mine to hook up so it kept falling off. I told him I'd leave the sllde locked back and in my holster.

Had I known they were doing this and charging that much for a crappy show I would have turned and walked away. The show was a real nothing show. And I will not be attending another.

 

I do not see why they thought it was safer for every CCer to unholster, and clear the weapon in a crowded environment rather than simply leaving the gun concealed and untouched in its holster.  

 

I guess that I have missed all those news stories about gunfights breaking out in gun shows or of numerous holsters breaking, guns falling to the floor and going off.  

 

The sign and guard should have been placed in a position before you came to the cashier.  Then prospective patrons could have walked away before they got to the cashier's window.  

Too bad you wasted your money.


Edited by Quiet Observer, 15 February 2018 - 09:09 AM.


#27 HeavyDuty

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 02:42 PM

"Article IV; SECTION 12. LEGISLATIVE IMMUNITY Except in cases of treason, felony or breach of peace, a member shall be privileged from arrest going to, during, and returning from sessions of the General Assembly."Gotta love how the politicians create laws to protect themselves.I guess they're special.


Do some research, and you’ll see why this exists.

#28 wtr100

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Posted Yesterday, 02:44 PM

--snip--
The last gun show I went to (Kendall County) was not posted in any way.  There was however a staff member and a uniformed (off-duty I'm assuming) police officer just inside the door notifying everyone that loaded weapons were not permitted, asking if anyone was carrying, then supervising unloading and cable tying each of the actions. I suppose I don't really mind.  The cheap ties they were using were so brittle that briskly racking the slide snapped it. I was reloaded seconds after leaving.
 
--snip--


Would this be an 'invstigative stop' - splitting hairs here but interesting to think about

(h) If an officer of a law enforcement agency initiates an investigative stop, including but not limited to a
traffic stop, of a licensee or a non-resident carrying a concealed firearm under subsection (e) of Section 40
of this Act, upon the request of the officer the licensee or non-resident shall disclose to the officer that he or
she is in possession of a concealed firearm under this Act


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#29 drumgod

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Posted Today, 01:13 AM

That was my thought as well but I will admit, based on rebel49's post above (I'm pretty sure we were at the same show), I am not certain it was an actual LEO now. I had locked my pistol up in the car so I breezed by the inspections over to a knife that caught my attention. It's quite possible my mind went, "badge, gun... oooh shiny!" and I assumed he was LEO afterwards.



#30 Quiet Observer

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Posted Today, 10:57 AM

 

Would this be an 'invstigative stop' - splitting hairs here but interesting to think about

 

I do not think so.  I believe it would be an investigative stop, if an officer must reasonably believes a crime has been, is being, or about to be committed.  

Otherwise, they could stop virtually everyone they meet.  Ignoring a non-legal sign about a power not granted by the FCCL is not a crime.  

 

There could also be certain conditions connected with purchase of the ticket in which you agree to be subjected to search and/or other regulations set forth by the issuing company. 

I think they would have to be printed on the ticket or conspicuously posted at the point of purchase.  Refusing to comply and to leave, if demanded, could warrant a trespassing charge.






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