Neither approved nor denied SBR

[Hazborgufen]

Is there risk that the others are seen and those get revoked? Does the ATF revoke stamps?

 

The other stamps are already seen since the ATF has a registry of all these. I don't know if the ATF can revoke a stamp, but if they do then we're just flying under the radar and buying time rather than being clear and legal.

 

I have an SBR in Cook County that my CLEO signed off for and I want to know if I'm in the clear and legal rather than simply flying under the radar. I have an opportunity to move out of Cook County if necessary. Or into a Cook County municipality that over-rules the ban if I can confirm the actual text in the municipal code. Moving out of state, while a dream, is not feasible at the moment.

 

Oddly, I've been unable to verify that Des Plaines does in fact over-rule Cook County's ban. I assume they do given that Maxon sells ARs but I couldn't find it in their municipal code. Does anyone have a reference for where it is listed that Des Plaines over-rules the Cook County Blair Holt ordinance?

 

Otherwise Elmhurst in DuPage county might be the winner.

[InterestedBystander]

http://www.sterlingcodifiers.com/codebook/m_index.php?book_id=561

 

Des Plaines, IL

Please contact the municipality for questions regarding regulations.

 

Des Plaines, IL webpage / (847) 391-5300

 

Nothing about an AWB I saw. So does state preemption apply? Does Cook County still override since nothing explicit called out that says it is ok in HR ordinances?

 

Silencers and machine guns are in unlawful use.

 

They do have a dealer license law that overrides Cook.

 

This chapter shall be known as the DES PLAINES FIREARMS DEALER'S LICENSE ORDINANCE.

 

B. As provided in article VII, section 6© of the Illinois constitution of 1970, this chapter conflicts with an ordinance of Cook County, and therefore this chapter shall prevail within this jurisdiction.

 

C. If any section, subsection, paragraph, sentence or clause of this chapter or the application thereof to any person is for any reason deemed to be invalid or unconstitutional, such decision shall not affect, impair or invalidate any remaining portion, section or part thereof or application of this chapter to any other person. (Ord. M-19-13, 10-7-2013)

 

It shouldnt be this hard to understand the law.

[Hazborgufen]

http://www.sterlingcodifiers.com/codebook/m_index.php?book_id=561

Des Plaines, IL

Please contact the municipality for questions regarding regulations.

Des Plaines, IL webpage / (847) 391-5300

Nothing about an AWB I saw. So does state preemption apply? Does Cook County still override since nothing explicit called out that says it is ok in HR ordinances?

Silencers and machine guns are in unlawful use.

They do have a dealer license law that overrides Cook.

This chapter shall be known as the DES PLAINES FIREARMS DEALER'S LICENSE ORDINANCE.

B. As provided in article VII, section 6© of the Illinois constitution of 1970, this chapter conflicts with an ordinance of Cook County, and therefore this chapter shall prevail within this jurisdiction.

C. If any section, subsection, paragraph, sentence or clause of this chapter or the application thereof to any person is for any reason deemed to be invalid or unconstitutional, such decision shall not affect, impair or invalidate any remaining portion, section or part thereof or application of this chapter to any other person. (Ord. M-19-13, 10-7-2013)

It shouldnt be this hard to understand the law.

So the question is does the conflict caused by the Des Plaines Firearms Dealers License Ordinance invalidate the entirety of the Cook County ban, or does it only invalidate references to gun dealers? Specifically, does it mean Maxon can sell ARs while Des Plaines residents are banned from possessing them?

 

Cook County is the worst.

[soylentgreen]

I asked this question directly to my lawyer. He says if you live in a home rule community, the Cook ban is null and void...regardless of whether they have specific ordinances invalidating the Cook ban.

You may wan to look at the Franklin Armory "Reformation". It's a long arm without twisted rifling...which means it's not a rifle. Therefore, it can have any length barrel without any approval or tax stamp. It requires special ammo to achieve good accuracy.

 

You could also go with an AR pistol.

[gtguard]

I asked this question directly to my lawyer. He says if you live in a home rule community, the Cook ban is null and void...regardless of whether they have specific ordinances invalidating the Cook ban.

 

You may wan to look at the Franklin Armory "Reformation". It's a long arm without twisted rifling...which means it's not a rifle. Therefore, it can have any length barrel without any approval or tax stamp. It requires special ammo to achieve good accuracy.

 

You could also go with an AR pistol.

I am getting a brace for my Zenith until I can get this stamp stuff figured out.

[soylentgreen]

 

I am getting a brace for my Zenith until I can get this stamp stuff figured out.

 

 

I would be careful with that. I don't know the ins and outs of that. If you have a rifle, I'm not certain it's legal to just put a brace and a short barrel on it and call it a pistol. My understanding is you can make a pistol into a rifle, but you can't make a rifle into a pistol. But, get advice from people more knowledgeable than I am. There are plenty of people on here who could point you in the right direction.

[InterestedBystander]

 

I am getting a brace for my Zenith until I can get this stamp stuff figured out.

 

I would be careful with that. I don't know the ins and outs of that. If you have a rifle, I'm not certain it's legal to just put a brace and a short barrel on it and call it a pistol. My understanding is you can make a pistol into a rifle, but you can't make a rifle into a pistol. But, get advice from people more knowledgeable than I am. There are plenty of people on here who could point you in the right direction.

Starts as a pistol can go to rifle and back. Starts as a rifle, always a rifle...as I understand it. IANAL

[soylentgreen]

 

 

I am getting a brace for my Zenith until I can get this stamp stuff figured out.

I would be careful with that. I don't know the ins and outs of that. If you have a rifle, I'm not certain it's legal to just put a brace and a short barrel on it and call it a pistol. My understanding is you can make a pistol into a rifle, but you can't make a rifle into a pistol. But, get advice from people more knowledgeable than I am. There are plenty of people on here who could point you in the right direction.

Starts as a pistol can go to rifle and back. Starts as a rifle, always a rifle...as I understand it. IANAL

 

This is my understanding as well. I would guess most lower receivers are sold as pistols...hence the 3 day waiting period. I bought one a few years ago and built it. I was perplexed why I needed to wait three days. But, I didn't even know there was such a thing as an AR pistol at that time.

[kevinha]

This is my understanding as well. I would guess most lower receivers are sold as pistols...hence the 3 day waiting period. I bought one a few years ago and built it. I was perplexed why I needed to wait three days. But, I didn't even know there was such a thing as an AR pistol at that time.

 

 

Here be dragons. Ensure that your FFL is *NOT* transferring a stripped lower to you as a rifle. Have your FFL transfer it to you as "Other," thereby avoiding the categorization forever locking a stripped lower into either pistol or rifle. Under "Other" it can transition it's life between a pistol with a pistol-length upper (with a buffer tube and/or pistol brace, but not an adjustable stock) or a rifle with a rifle-length upper (with a buffer tube and stock).

 

If you're going to play the game of switching it back and forth, then have enough castle nuts on hand to facilitate the change of buffer tube and re-staking of the castle nut :-)

[soylentgreen]

 

This is my understanding as well. I would guess most lower receivers are sold as pistols...hence the 3 day waiting period. I bought one a few years ago and built it. I was perplexed why I needed to wait three days. But, I didn't even know there was such a thing as an AR pistol at that time.

 

 

Here be dragons. Ensure that your FFL is *NOT* transferring a stripped lower to you as a rifle. Have your FFL transfer it to you as "Other," thereby avoiding the categorization forever locking a stripped lower into either pistol or rifle. Under "Other" it can transition it's life between a pistol with a pistol-length upper (with a buffer tube and/or pistol brace, but not an adjustable stock) or a rifle with a rifle-length upper (with a buffer tube and stock).

 

If you're going to play the game of switching it back and forth, then have enough castle nuts on hand to facilitate the change of buffer tube and re-staking of the castle nut :-)

 

 

Good advice. I should go dig up my paperwork and see what I've got. But, I was never interested in building anything but a rifle. If I ever build a pistol, I'd buy a new lower specifically for that purpose.

[mata777]

 

 

This is my understanding as well. I would guess most lower receivers are sold as pistols...hence the 3 day waiting period. I bought one a few years ago and built it. I was perplexed why I needed to wait three days. But, I didn't even know there was such a thing as an AR pistol at that time.

 

Here be dragons. Ensure that your FFL is *NOT* transferring a stripped lower to you as a rifle. Have your FFL transfer it to you as "Other," thereby avoiding the categorization forever locking a stripped lower into either pistol or rifle. Under "Other" it can transition it's life between a pistol with a pistol-length upper (with a buffer tube and/or pistol brace, but not an adjustable stock) or a rifle with a rifle-length upper (with a buffer tube and stock).

 

If you're going to play the game of switching it back and forth, then have enough castle nuts on hand to facilitate the change of buffer tube and re-staking of the castle nut :-)

Good advice. I should go dig up my paperwork and see what I've got. But, I was never interested in building anything but a rifle. If I ever build a pistol, I'd buy a new lower specifically for that purpose.

I’ve never had a dealer give me a copy of the 4473 when buying a firearm.

[Ericshere]

All stripped lowers should be sold as other. If your FFL is doing anything else he is doing it wrong.

[gtguard]

 

 

I am getting a brace for my Zenith until I can get this stamp stuff figured out.

 

 

I would be careful with that. I don't know the ins and outs of that. If you have a rifle, I'm not certain it's legal to just put a brace and a short barrel on it and call it a pistol. My understanding is you can make a pistol into a rifle, but you can't make a rifle into a pistol. But, get advice from people more knowledgeable than I am. There are plenty of people on here who could point you in the right direction.

 

For sure. This thing is at the moment a pistol (Zenith Z5-RS).

 

Once the SBR paperwork comes back approved (hopefully) then and only then can my pistol choose to live life as a rifle.

[Hazborgufen]

 

 

 

I am getting a brace for my Zenith until I can get this stamp stuff figured out.

 

 

I would be careful with that. I don't know the ins and outs of that. If you have a rifle, I'm not certain it's legal to just put a brace and a short barrel on it and call it a pistol. My understanding is you can make a pistol into a rifle, but you can't make a rifle into a pistol. But, get advice from people more knowledgeable than I am. There are plenty of people on here who could point you in the right direction.

 

For sure. This thing is at the moment a pistol (Zenith Z5-RS).

 

Once the SBR paperwork comes back approved (hopefully) then and only then can my pistol choose to live life as a rifle.

 

 

It sounds like you recently resubmitted your paperwork to the ATF. What have you done to convince the ATF to issue the stamp? I'm waiting to submit a Form 1 for a 9mm AR until I see how your situation resolves itself but I'm curious what you've done so far.

[StreuB1]

From what I was told, I was one of the first few people in IL to file Form 1 paperwork in IL under the law change. Not sure if that is true or not but I am going with it.

 

I say that because I filed 3 at once and 1 of which was moving a pistol to a rifle (PPS-43C to a PPS-43) and there were no hiccups or questions. Did the PPS, a 12.5" AR and a Krinkov.

[Dog1]

 

I asked this question directly to my lawyer. He says if you live in a home rule community, the Cook ban is null and void...regardless of whether they have specific ordinances invalidating the Cook ban.

 

You may wan to look at the Franklin Armory "Reformation". It's a long arm without twisted rifling...which means it's not a rifle. Therefore, it can have any length barrel without any approval or tax stamp. It requires special ammo to achieve good accuracy.

 

You could also go with an AR pistol.

I am getting a brace for my Zenith until I can get this stamp stuff figured out.

 

You probably are already aware but since the Zenith is a import you will have to change out several parts to make the build 922r compliant. Working from memory I believe you will need to exchange 6 listed parts to get down to the maximum 0f 10.

[AKS-74U]

You probably are already aware but since the Zenith is a import you will have to change out several parts to make the build 922r compliant. Working from memory I believe you will need to exchange 6 listed parts to get down to the maximum 0f 10.

 

It is my understanding that 922® only applies to "sporting" rifles and shotguns. as an NFA regulated firearm, short barreled rifles are "non-sporting" and therefore do not fall under 922®

 

IANAL

[Dog1]

 

You probably are already aware but since the Zenith is a import you will have to change out several parts to make the build 922r compliant. Working from memory I believe you will need to exchange 6 listed parts to get down to the maximum 0f 10.

 

It is my understanding that 922® only applies to "sporting" rifles and shotguns. as an NFA regulated firearm, short barreled rifles are "non-sporting" and therefore do not fall under 922®

 

IANAL

Just the opposite. 922r applies to "non sporting." Below is a link to a comprehensive legal opinion on the issue. Also, manufactures who are converting zenith pistols into sbr are doing so by installing compliance parts and adding a stock.

 

https://johnpierceesq.com/does-922r-apply-when-building-an-sbr-from-an-imported-pistol/

[gtguard]

It sounds like you recently resubmitted your paperwork to the ATF. What have you done to convince the ATF to issue the stamp? I'm waiting to submit a Form 1 for a 9mm AR until I see how your situation resolves itself but I'm curious what you've done so far.

 

I am about to resubmit. I just found out about this.

 

 

(430 ILCS 65/13.1) (from Ch. 38, par. 83-13.1)

Sec. 13.1. Preemption.

(a) Except as otherwise provided in the Firearm Concealed Carry Act and subsections ( and © of this Section, the provisions of any ordinance enacted by any municipality which requires registration or imposes greater restrictions or limitations on the acquisition, possession and transfer of firearms than are imposed by this Act, are not invalidated or affected by this Act.

( Notwithstanding subsection (a) of this Section, the regulation, licensing, possession, and registration of handguns and ammunition for a handgun, and the transportation of any firearm and ammunition by a holder of a valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card issued by the Department of State Police under this Act are exclusive powers and functions of this State. Any ordinance or regulation, or portion of that ordinance or regulation, enacted on or before the effective date of this amendatory Act of the 98th General Assembly that purports to impose regulations or restrictions on a holder of a valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card issued by the Department of State Police under this Act in a manner that is inconsistent with this Act, on the effective date of this amendatory Act of the 98th General Assembly, shall be invalid in its application to a holder of a valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card issued by the Department of State Police under this Act.

© Notwithstanding subsection (a) of this Section, the regulation of the possession or ownership of assault weapons are exclusive powers and functions of this State. Any ordinance or regulation, or portion of that ordinance or regulation, that purports to regulate the possession or ownership of assault weapons in a manner that is inconsistent with this Act, shall be invalid unless the ordinance or regulation is enacted on, before, or within 10 days after the effective date of this amendatory Act of the 98th General Assembly. Any ordinance or regulation described in this subsection © enacted more than 10 days after the effective date of this amendatory Act of the 98th General Assembly is invalid. An ordinance enacted on, before, or within 10 days after the effective date of this amendatory Act of the 98th General Assembly may be amended. The enactment or amendment of ordinances under this subsection © are subject to the submission requirements of Section 13.3. For the purposes of this subsection, "assault weapons" means firearms designated by either make or model or by a test or list of cosmetic features that cumulatively would place the firearm into a definition of "assault weapon" under the ordinance.

(d) For the purposes of this Section, "handgun" has the meaning ascribed to it in Section 5 of the Firearm Concealed Carry Act.

(e) This Section is a denial and limitation of home rule powers and functions under subsection (h) of Section 6 of Article VII of the Illinois Constitution.

(Source: P.A. 98-63, eff. 7-9-13.)

 

I am not a lawyer but that to me it sounds like municipalities had a chance to pass AWB, which places like Chicago, and the other goofy places did. But where I live there is no AWB, just "common sense" gun laws like don't shoot people with them.

[gtguard]

 

 

You probably are already aware but since the Zenith is a import you will have to change out several parts to make the build 922r compliant. Working from memory I believe you will need to exchange 6 listed parts to get down to the maximum 0f 10.

It is my understanding that 922® only applies to "sporting" rifles and shotguns. as an NFA regulated firearm, short barreled rifles are "non-sporting" and therefore do not fall under 922®

 

IANAL

Just the opposite. 922r applies to "non sporting." Below is a link to a comprehensive legal opinion on the issue. Also, manufactures who are converting zenith pistols into sbr are doing so by installing compliance parts and adding a stock.

 

https://johnpierceesq.com/does-922r-apply-when-building-an-sbr-from-an-imported-pistol/

 

Already there.

1. Bolt
2. Cocking Handle
3. Trigger
4. Hammer
5. Sear
6. Handguard

8)

[captainskullet]

 

 

 

Just to argue the point a little more, if you're registering the SBR on a trust, your buddy who lives outside the prohibited area could be on the trust and possess the SBR. I guess you could also own property outside of the prohibited area and make a case that locked in your safe on said property is considered under your control. Or maybe not.

 

Unfortunately for us trusts aren't allowed to own firearms in IL so that's not a route we can take.

As far as what constitutes "under your control" that I'm not sure of what the legalities are.... Is it under your control if you keep it at another property that you own that's not the one listed as your primary residence on the form 1 ? Is it under your control if you keep it locked up in a locker at a 3rd party site ? Good questions....

 

That's not entirely true. If the trust doesn't originate in IL you can 5320.20 it into Illinois if you are a trustee and hold a C&R.

[Gamma]

That's not entirely true. If the trust doesn't originate in IL you can 5320.20 it into Illinois if you are a trustee and hold a C&R.

If anyone has actually successfully done that, that's "news" as there have been no reports yes or no as to whether ATF approves those.

[heckler40]

 

That's not entirely true. If the trust doesn't originate in IL you can 5320.20 it into Illinois if you are a trustee and hold a C&R.

If anyone has actually successfully done that, that's "news" as there have been no reports yes or no as to whether ATF approves those.

 

 

If you are curious, I would call the ATF and chat with them. They are generally approachable.

[Gamma]

 

 

That's not entirely true. If the trust doesn't originate in IL you can 5320.20 it into Illinois if you are a trustee and hold a C&R.

If anyone has actually successfully done that, that's "news" as there have been no reports yes or no as to whether ATF approves those.

 

If you are curious, I would call the ATF and chat with them. They are generally approachable.

 

If they are applying a lesser standard to out-of-state residents in Illinois than they are enforcing against Illinois residents in Illinois, that would be a problem.