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Safe Harbor & Trailered Watercraft


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#1 psygnal11

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Posted 26 January 2019 - 01:59 AM

I have a CCL and trailer my boat from my house to a nearby lake, and my preferred boat launch is actually part of a parking area that is owned by and/or under control of a bar that is a posted GFZ. In other words, there is no question that the parking lot (and therefore, the boat launch) is a GFZ by statute, regardless.

Nevertheless, safe harbor would apply so long as the gun remains on my person within my truck; however, it appears that if I attempted to transfer my gun from the truck to the boat on my person while still within the parking lot, such would not be covered under safe harbor the moment I step out of my truck (since I am not doing so for the purpose of placing the gun inside the trunk of my vehicle) i.e. misdemeanor B.

Now, based on the presumption that a boat is considered a vehicle for purposes of safe harbor (even though not explicitly defined or excluded within Section 65, it seems such is commonly accepted and/or otherwise supported by other statutory definitions of vehicle), it would appear that I have two options for getting my gun on the water without running afoul of Section 65:

1) Leave my house with the gun locked inside the boat... the boat would be able to pass through the GFZ parking lot and into the lake (which is unrestricted per DNR), or

2) After launching the boat, unload and transfer the gun from the truck to the boat, through the GFZ parking lot, inside of a locked container.

Additionally, even if the boat wasnt considered a vehicle, #2 would still be viable provided I did not uncase and load the weapon until out on the water and away from the launch.

Generally speaking, am I interpreting the transport and safe harbor statutes correctly?

#2 RandyP

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Posted 26 January 2019 - 05:26 AM

Welcome new member and first time poster.

 

I don't know if this public access boat ramp falls under the liquor establishment restrictions. Launch the boat, bring your handgun on board in a carry condition and container. Then holster it in the boat or leave it in the container.

 

In my 6 decades of fishing/boating I have not heard any tales of open-water piracy that would warrant my being able to mount an armed defense, but I would prefer having my carry gun with me at all times rather than locked in an unattended vehicle for hours on end.  


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#3 RandyP

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Posted 26 January 2019 - 07:21 AM

"bring your handgun on board in a carry condition and container"

 

I meant to say bring it onboard in a transport (NOT carry) condition and container.

 

My bad - but hey - it's also 6 BELOW flippin' zero here in my 'hood. I gots brain freeze - LOL


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#4 GLOCK22

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Posted 26 January 2019 - 08:23 AM

Doesn't matter who owns/has control over the parking lot. As long as you're not entering the bar, carry on.....
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#5 Jeffrey

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Posted 26 January 2019 - 08:30 AM

Be careful. There have been many reports of boating accidents that claimed lives of many guns. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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#6 luckydawg13

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Posted 26 January 2019 - 08:32 AM

A few years ago I was in a boating accident  and was tossed overboard  I almost lost my life  anyway Keep a can of WD40 in your truck just in case you go for  

  a swim it will displace the water on your gun  


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#7 DomG

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Posted 26 January 2019 - 09:43 AM

Be careful. There have been many reports of boating accidents that claimed lives of many guns. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Yes, take heed.  All of my "assault weapons" were tragically lost overboard, just the other day. I guess now I won't have to register them.


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#8 Quiet Observer

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Posted 26 January 2019 - 11:20 AM

psygnal11, 

 

Unless the entrance of the parking lot is posted, you can go anywhere on that lot while carrying.  You are not allowed to go beyond a compliant sign while carrying. In this case you are not allowed to CC into the posted tavern building.  

 

If the entry to the lot is posted, the following applies.

 

"    (a-10) The owner of private real property of any type may prohibit the carrying of concealed firearms on the property under his or her control. The owner must post a sign in accordance with subsection (d) of this Section indicating that firearms are prohibited on the property, unless the property is a private residence.

 

 

  (b ) Notwithstanding subsections (a), (a-5), and (a-10) of this Section except under paragraph (22) or (23) of subsection (a), any licensee prohibited from carrying a concealed firearm into the parking area of a prohibited location specified in subsection (a), (a-5), or (a-10) of this Section shall be permitted to carry a concealed firearm on or about his or her person within a vehicle into the parking area and may store a firearm or ammunition concealed in a case within a locked vehicle or locked container out of plain view within the vehicle in the parking area. A licensee may carry a concealed firearm in the immediate area surrounding his or her vehicle within a prohibited parking lot area only for the limited purpose of storing or retrieving a firearm within the vehicle's trunk. For purposes of this subsection, "case" includes a glove compartment or console that completely encloses the concealed firearm or ammunition, the trunk of the vehicle, or a firearm carrying box, shipping box, or other container".  

 

If the boat ramp is privately owned, the owner can also post the ramp area, but this does not seem to be the case. 

 

Your boat is a vehicle.  A vehicle is conveyance that transports goods, people or animals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle 

 

You are always going to be in close proximity of one of your vehicles, highway or watercraft.


Edited by Quiet Observer, 26 January 2019 - 11:21 AM.


#9 Buzzard

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Posted 26 January 2019 - 11:38 AM

 

Be careful. There have been many reports of boating accidents that claimed lives of many guns. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Yes, take heed.  All of my "assault weapons" were tragically lost overboard, just the other day. I guess now I won't have to register them.

 

 

I don't even have a boat. But I've found a cheap deal on a Oldsmobile sedan. I thought I might buy it and drive my guns out of state,

all the way up to Chappaquiddick Island by route of the bridge over Poucha Pond. What could possibly go wrong?!



#10 defaultdotxbe

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Posted 26 January 2019 - 01:08 PM

There seems to be some confusion about what is prohibited. If the parking area is under the control of a bar it is prohibited, not just the building

 

 
(9) Any building, real property, and parking area under the control of an establishment that serves alcohol on its premises, if more than 50% of the establishment's gross receipts within the prior 3 months is from the sale of alcohol.

 

 

 

There is nothing to indicate a public boat launch would mitigate the prohibition, so if you wish you remain 100% legal I think you would have to unload and case it to transport to the boat. Or keep a second carry gun in the boat and leave the first in the car

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#11 quackersmacker

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Posted 26 January 2019 - 01:13 PM

I can't believe y'all are actually agonizing over this.  Put the damn gun in a pack and go boating. 


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#12 defaultdotxbe

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Posted 26 January 2019 - 01:18 PM

I can't believe y'all are actually agonizing over this.  Put the damn gun in a pack and go boating. 

Technically we cannot advocate violating the law on this forum, now should we in any circumstance

 

Besides, demonstrating some of the ridiculous things the law requires you to do might drum up some support in getting it loosened up a bit


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#13 cope

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Posted 26 January 2019 - 01:33 PM

 

There seems to be some confusion about what is prohibited. If the parking area is under the control of a bar it is prohibited, not just the building

 

 
(9) Any building, real property, and parking area under the control of an establishment that serves alcohol on its premises, if more than 50% of the establishment's gross receipts within the prior 3 months is from the sale of alcohol.

 

 

 

There is nothing to indicate a public boat launch would mitigate the prohibition, so if you wish you remain 100% legal I think you would have to unload and case it to transport to the boat. Or keep a second carry gun in the boat and leave the first in the car

 

 

Unless the entrance to the parking lot is compliantly posted this would not apply, much like the building itself. The responsibility is on the property owner to meet this standard, either by posting a compliant sign in the appropriate areas, or by posting his financial records for the last 3 months in the appropriate areas.

 

Everyone seems to forget the most important part of the entire law "KNOWINGLY". If the bar owner has not posted one or the other of the above , it is impossible for anyone to knowingly violate.



#14 Glock23

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Posted 26 January 2019 - 01:35 PM

There seems to be some confusion about what is prohibited. If the parking area is under the control of a bar it is prohibited, not just the building
 
 

(9) Any building, real property, and parking area under the control of an establishment that serves alcohol on its premises, if more than 50% of the establishment's gross receipts within the prior 3 months is from the sale of alcohol.
 

 

 
There is nothing to indicate a public boat launch would mitigate the prohibition, so if you wish you remain 100% legal I think you would have to unload and case it to transport to the boat. Or keep a second carry gun in the boat and leave the first in the car

Yes, but if the prohibition extends beyond the building, the sign should be posted as such:

"Signs stating that the carrying of firearms is prohibited shall be clearly and conspicuously posted at the entrance of a building, premises, or real property specified in this Section as a prohibited area, unless the building or premises is a private residence."

The parking lot (and boat ramp) would fall under the premises or real property if owned by the bar.
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#15 madcow1007

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 07:25 AM

 

I can't believe y'all are actually agonizing over this.  Put the damn gun in a pack and go boating. 

Technically we cannot advocate violating the law on this forum, now should we in any circumstance

 

Besides, demonstrating some of the ridiculous things the law requires you to do might drum up some support in getting it loosened up a bit

 

 

 

I'm going to agree with quackersmacker here.  After nearly 5 years of carrying, I've relaxed quite a bit about the paranoia of being "caught" as a concealed carrier.  It's not going to happen.

 

Also, I can virtually guarantee that it would be found by a court to be legal for him to carry in the parking lo unless the lot itself is posted.  You cherry picked the part of the statute that would appear to make it illegal and left out all of the relevant parts that cut the other way.

 

Section 65, Prohibited Items begins with "(a) A licensee under this Act shall not knowingly carry a firearm on or into:"

 

Knowingly is a high legal standard and I can guarantee that unless quackersmacker is the bar's CPA, he does not know what percentage of their receipts are from alcohol sales.  The only way anyone knows is that the bar posts because they are obligated to under clause 9, right after you stopped quoting it:

 

"The owner of an establishment who knowingly fails to prohibit concealed firearms on its premises as provided in this paragraph or who knowingly makes a false statement or record to avoid the prohibition on concealed firearms under this paragraph is subject to the penalty under subsection (c-5) of Section 10-1 of the Liquor Control Act of 1934."

 

Lastly, paragraph (d) requires that the premises be posted:

"(d) Signs stating that the carrying of firearms is prohibited shall be clearly and conspicuously posted at the entrance of a building, premises, or real property specified in this Section as a prohibited area, unless the building or premises is a private residence. Signs shall be of a uniform design as established by the Department and shall be 4 inches by 6 inches in size. The Department shall adopt rules for standardized signs to be used under this subsection."

 

If you want to be extra careful, don't carry there.  If you want to be extra extra careful don't carry at all.  At some point in life we balance risks and rewards and find the right balance for us.  I would bet that most concealed carriers are more careful with their carrying than they are with their driving.



#16 cope

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 10:36 PM

simplified: if they do not clearly post you are legal

 

there is no grey area around the word 'knowingly'... at least not in this law


Edited by cope, 01 February 2019 - 10:37 PM.


#17 madcow1007

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 07:47 AM

simplified: if they do not clearly post you are legal
 
there is no grey area around the word 'knowingly'... at least not in this law


Not the first time I've been told I use too many words. Nice summary.

The only thing I'd add is clearly and correctly posted.

#18 psygnal11

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 02:05 PM

Thanks to everyone for their feedback; however, I didn't mean to set off a debate and should have been more clear... the parking lot is posted.  There is a compliant sign, conspicuously posted, at the only entry gate onto the property.  So by law, by statute, whatever, it's a GFZ.  Nevertheless, it appears my question (am I interpreting statutes correctly) was answered.

 

That being said, 

 

 

Yes, take heed.  All of my "assault weapons" were tragically lost overboard, just the other day. I guess now I won't have to register them.

 

 

I too lost an "assault weapon" overboard last summer... the tragic part was she climbed back in the boat and slapped me across the head.



#19 Jeffrey

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 02:35 PM

Thanks to everyone for their feedback; however, I didn't mean to set off a debate and should have been more clear... the parking lot is posted.  There is a compliant sign, conspicuously posted, at the only entry gate onto the property.  So by law, by statute, whatever, it's a GFZ.  Nevertheless, it appears my question (am I interpreting statutes correctly) was answered.

 

That being said, 

 

 

Yes, take heed.  All of my "assault weapons" were tragically lost overboard, just the other day. I guess now I won't have to register them.

 

 

I too lost an "assault weapon" overboard last summer... the tragic part was she climbed back in the boat and slapped me across the head.

You have a defective gun.  All they ever do is shoot people.


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