508 replies to this topic

[Buzzard]

Great job, Kaeghl!!

That's was great that you voiced your support to board members Randy Olson and Doug Aurand!
And I see this is a bi-partisan effort on their part. That's just outstanding!! Winnebago county is fortunate to have these guys on their county board!!

I can certainly understand Sheriff Meyers and Mr. Kovanda being cautious at this early stage. But it seems that the Sheriff is receptive to the CC idea and it sounds like he'd rather see a "shall issue" law than a local "may issue", with proper training of course.

Do you happen to know the particulars on the radio discussion, such as date, time and which station it is? I would certainly listen in and perhaps voice my support if possible. Please post this information if you can.

[jon70]

New member with a question.   How can chicago ban handguns while state law allows them, but countys can't allow CCW because state law does'nt allow it?

[speedracer815]

jon70, on May 7 2008, 12:42 PM, said:

New member with a question.   How can chicago ban handguns while state law allows them, but countys can't allow CCW because state law does'nt allow it?

That was exactly the question running through my mind when I ready the story this morning. I suspect the answer may be: Blago, Daley, etc.

[Kaeghl]

jon70, on May 7 2008, 12:42 PM, said:

New member with a question.   How can chicago ban handguns while state law allows them, but countys can't allow CCW because state law does'nt allow it?

That is a very good question. Remember, this is IL-ANNOYED, the home of illegal laws and city dictators that run roughshod over state laws.

And Welcome, jon, to the fun house.

[Buzzard]

jon70, on May 7 2008, 12:42 PM, said:

New member with a question.   How can chicago ban handguns while state law allows them, but countys can't allow CCW because state law does'nt allow it?

Excellent question. All I can say is the Supreme Court of the United States is working on giving you an answer to at least part of your question. This is anticipated to be decided very late in June.

[GWBH]

GarandFan, on May 7 2008, 12:30 PM, said:

Second, the General Assembly of Illinois has the power to step in and pass a law saying no....

Then.... The state legislature has the power to obliterate Daley's Chicago handgun ban - true???

[45superman]

gravyboy77, on May 7 2008, 12:12 PM, said:

What about this? Do the county sheriffs have the same power in illinois? I read this same thing about illinois counties along time ago, and i can't seem to find it.

Link:

Gravy, at one time, I bought into that, but War on Guns isn't convinced, and I imagine Mr. Codrea is correct.

[Kenny]

Slappy, on May 7 2008, 10:13 AM, said:

people commute to chicago from Winnebago? thats half way across the top of the state!!!

It probably takes just as long from rockford to get to work as it does 3/4 of the people in chicago or the burbs. I can be downtown at soldier field on a sunday in an hour and a half granted that is a sunday but with the expressways & stuff add an hour for rush hour traffic. I know alot of people that live in some towns around chicago that take 2 hours to and from work.

[jon70]

Thanks for the welcome! Speaking of SCONUS, does anyone heard the anything about the DC ban yet? This county by county CCW law is definetly interesting.  The least of which would be to rub daleys and Blagos nose in it, and force them to think about it.

[jon70]

Another thought, is there any city or county that requires a gun in your home?  I'm not aware of any. This might be another way to push to be heard at the state level.

[Kaeghl]

Annnnnd just got a call from the good Mr Aurand. I like these guys.

Has anyone else here noticed that little bit about a valid CCW issued by a Law Enforcement Officer would be honored as proof of ability to handle a gun in Winnabago County? Besides me, how many here have a Pa. CCW signed by the excellent Sheriff Nau? heh heh heh

Which means my Florida CCW wouldn't cut it, it's from the Dept of Agriculture, not the Florida State Police. awwwww

This looks like it's time to start some pre-emptive letters to the editor, just to keep things stirred up and work up support. Gun owners in this county out number the GFW's despite the "We know better than you, so shut up!" attitude of the local paper.

And another thought......with all the Green Counties we're seeing on the state map, is anyone thinking that if this flies in Winnabago County, would a copy of this find it's way into other county board member's mailboxes around the state?

Yes, I'm sometimes an instigator, I admit it.

[Slappy]

polhms1, on May 7 2008, 01:33 PM, said:

It probably takes just as long from rockford to get to work as it does 3/4 of the people in chicago or the burbs. I can be downtown at soldier field on a sunday in an hour and a half granted that is a sunday but with the expressways & stuff add an hour for rush hour traffic. I know alot of people that live in some towns around chicago that take 2 hours to and from work.

that is true... expediency in chicago seems to be based purely on proximity to a major highway... I get into chicago very quickly, even in heavy traffic because my place is one light away from an on ramp!!!

[SirMatthew]

Kaeghl, on May 7 2008, 01:54 PM, said:

Annnnnd just got a call from the good Mr Aurand. I like these guys.

And another thought......with all the Green Counties we're seeing on the state map, is anyone thinking that if this flies in Winnabago County, would a copy of this find it's way into other county board member's mailboxes around the state?

Yes, I'm sometimes an instigator, I admit it.

I had this same thought when I faxed Randal Olson this morning to thank him for his efforts.  I told him, if he is able to accomplish this in Winnebago county, then I would be willing to circulate his resolution and help get other counties on board too.  I have a feeling many of the 79 green counties would go for it.

[speedracer815]

jon70, on May 7 2008, 01:45 PM, said:

Another thought, is there any city or county that requires a gun in your home?

I don't know of any Illinois towns, but I know there's Kennesaw, Georgia.

[Kenny]

I just spoke with my county board rep and he is all for CC statewide but is concerned about the legal costs of fighting the state if it came down to it. I told him that if Winnebago county does it it will spread just like the pro2a res did. I told him to contact the NRA to ask for support on this if it does become a legal battle he said he has been paying dues for ahwile why not get somthing out of it. Would the ISRA be interested in helping this along. He wants me to get petition signatures I told him to draw up the petition and send it to me in a pdf & I will get him pages of signatures. Can someone sign a petition online if I were to post it does that count? If so I will be posting a link to the petition on here when he gets it to me. He wants signatures from Winnebago county residents but I figure I can do a seperate one for the rest of the state. I URGE EVERYONE TO CALL YOUR COUNTY BOARD MEMBERS AND HAVE THEM CALL RANDY OLSON-815-262-1662 OR DOUG AURAND-815-633-9382 AND VOICE THEIR SUPPORT AND FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO THE SAME IN OTHER COUNTIES. If they have support from other county board members from across the state it will be alot easier to sell to the others that aren't so hip on the idea. Lets make this an issue at every county board meeting in the state in the next month or two.

[Gary]

According to statute and state constitution as I read it, the sheriff does NOT have the power to issue concealed carry permits.  However, state statute does provide for the sheriff or any law enforcement officer to ask for assistance from an "unsworn" citizen and that citizen is then operating under the direction of and under the same authority as the police officer that requested the assistance.

I understand that this is supposed to mean a verbal short term issuance of authority during a particularly distinctive set of circumstances, but the statute does not spell that out----yet.

In theory then, a sheriff could issue an idividual a "letter of request for assistance" and then the citizen would be authorized to operate under the authority of the sheriff without being sworn.  Actually, this could be a really good thing in a lot of areas to have a large "posse".

As with anything though, there is no argument that can withstand the first negative ruling by an Illiinois high court.

[speedracer815]

Gary, on May 7 2008, 03:36 PM, said:

According to statute and state constitution as I read it, the sheriff does NOT have the power to issue concealed carry permits.

I'm not sure that gets to the heart of the question. This isn't just a sheriff who decided to issue permits.

Does a county board, with home rule powers, have the authority to allow concealed carry and direct the Sheriff to issue permits?

It seems to me that Cook county already set the precedent by superseding state firearms laws. Isn't that a nice bit of irony?

[Gary]

I have often thought this was possible to have pseudo concealed carry ability at the county level, even though it would be directly contrary to state law.  The county board avenue is not the way to do it, though.  
That said, when you talk about something being illegal, the thing that you have to also ask is, "What is the penalty"?
The key, I think, is the local states attorney.  The states attorney has a ridiculous amount of power to prosecute or not to prosecute.  We saw that with the rape charges against the Duke Lacrosse team members.  But the states attorney can also choose NOT to prosecute.  If he will not prosecute then it is not illegal in that county for all practical purposes.  I talked with a states attorney about this and the problem that he had was that there are some people that he would not want to give a “free pass” to on firearm law violation or to send a message to that would give them the idea that carrying guns would not create a legal problem for them.  If he were to have two sets of rules that could be demonstrated, then there would be the charges of malicious prosecution, selective prosecution, and discrimination.

Of Course, we have an election coming up in November.


A coordinated effort with the county boards and the states attorney would be ideal, I think.

And I repeat, "We Have An Election Coming Up In November".

[Kenny]

Doug Aurand just called me back and wanted me to urge everyone to tell your county board members to call him and get on board with this the more counties we have fighting the fight as whole counties not just citizens the better.

[Kenny]

Fire up the phone lines boys and call each and everyone of these board members and explain why it is a great idea. GF do you have time for some of your superb writing skills Doug told me to get some letters to the editors going I know how you are about taking credit for your writings so I will gladly attach my name to it if you compose it.  

                      EVERYONE MAKE SOME CALLS THIS COULD AFFECT ALL OF US NOT JUST WINNEBAGO COUNTY


WINNEBAGO COUNTY BOARD MEMBERS
CHAIRMAN SCOTT H. CHRISTIANSEN
404 ELM STREET, ROOM 533, ROCKFORD, IL 61101 (815) 319-4225




R-9       AIELLO, MARY ANN
2010 521 Renrose Avenue
Loves Park, IL 61111
(H) 877-6833

D-3 AURAND, DOUGLAS R.
2010 P.O. Box 16026
Loves Park, IL 61132-6026
( 633-9382
(Voice Mail) 319-4243

D-12 DUCKETT, GEORGE ANNE
2010 429 Orchard Park 61101-6401
(H) 963-4720

R-10 EKBERG, JOHN
2010 1804 Colorado Ave 61108
(H) 395-1955
( 398-4150, ext. 222                                                     The smilies are acctually the business phone # (

D-11 ELYEA, KAREN
2008 1302 Broadway 61104
(H) 316-0258

R-4 FIDUCCIA, DAVE
2010 1055 Castlehill Dr 61107
(H) 332-3416

R-14 GAMBINO, FRANK M.
2010 5691 Rainsford Way 61107
(H) 282-1957
( 637-0113

D-7 GORAL, ANGIE
2010 1108 N. Rockton Ave 61103
(H) 964-0686

D-5 GORSKI, PAUL
2010 4583 Scenic Dr 61109
(H) 874-2916

R-4 HARMON, JOHN H.
2008 806 Phelps Ave. 61108
(H) 397-5166

D-13 HASTINGS,  BOB
2010 1728 Constitution Place 61103
(H) 633-4254

D-6 HAWKS, PEARL
2010 713 Lexington Ave 61102
(H) 963-2670

D-11 HOFFMAN, KAREN
2010 3323 Carolina Ave 61108
(H) 399-5026

D-8 JOHNSON, PHILLIP
2008 4665 Terrang Trl
Machesney Park, IL 61115
(H) 633-7312







R-10 KINNISON, BOB
2008 1620 S Trainer Rd 61108
(H) 395-1654

R-3 LOGAN, KYLE
2008 7069 Mullinshire Way
Machesney Park, IL 61115
© 979-6673

R-5 MACKAY, PETER
2008 7030 Horizon Drive 61109
(H) 962-7031
( 962-7313

R-1 OLSON, RANDAL
2010 6423 Thedorff Rd
Pecatonica, IL   61063
(H) 239-2716
( 262-1662

R-1 OWENS, TOM
2008 3811 Westlake Village Drive
Winnebago, IL 61088
(H) 335-7591

D-8 PARIS, MELVIN
2010 8220 Scott Lane 61115
(H) 654-1124

R-13 POLLACK, RICK
2008 112 Lawn Place 61103
(H) 963-1047

D-6 REDD, DOROTHY
2008 431 Homestead Ln 61102
(H) 964-8920
( 966-3251

R-14 SWEENEY, JOHN F.
2008 3811 Burrmont Rd 61107
© 262-5769

R-7 VECCHIO, KELLY
2008 321 West State St, Suite 1204 61101
( 962-4019

R- 2 WEBSTER, JIM
2008 16205 Boswell Rd
Rockton, IL 61072
(H) 629-2014

R-9 WESCOTT, FRED
2008 4102 Martina Dr 61114
(815) 708-6006

D-12 WILSON, L.C.
2008 2615 Arthur Ave
Rockford, IL 61101
(H) 962-6108
( 633-7460 ex 515

R-2 YESKE, DAVE
2010 11554 Cedar Brook Rd
Roscoe, IL 61073
(hm) 623-8167

[Ol'Coach]

Quote

I don't know of any Illinois towns, but I know there's Kennesaw, Georgia.

Two very small towns in Southern Illinois...  my memory might be failing me again, but I think the two are Goreville, and Pittsburg.

[raiven]

im glad to see its happining in my county right now i called scott christian a while back leaving a meaasge on his machine saying i think its time to give people back there rights on ccw. im sure thats not what started this but i like to think it helped some way. it really suprises me that they are so slow on this resoultion that i got passed here.

[abolt243]

This is great!!  I have serious doubts that it will happen, but that's just my cynical Illannoy self coming out.

I just briefly read through the bill.  If this does pass, it might be setting precedence for future bills.  A few things to watch for:

Reciprocity--I notice that OOS licenses are to be honored, but it needs to be a little more clear that anyone with the OOS permit is OK, not just an out of state resident.  Then you, with your PA,NH,FL,UT permit are good to go.
Also, no mention of reciprocity with any other "county issued" licenses from other counties in the state of IL.

Public Record--The records should be available to any LE agency that needs them.  Should not be available to anyone else in the public or private sector.  Why does someone that is not LEO need to know if I have a RTC license??   To target me as a burglary victim for my guns??  To target me as a first target in a shooting??  To march in front of my house in protest??  No reason for it to be public knowledge as long as I remain law abiding.

Gun Free areas--Be careful to not get these too vague, and allow for the owners/authorities of the areas to supercede the ban if they choose to. I.E. the authorities of a church could allow CC if they wish to.  The prohibition in "any area of a restaraunt serving alchohol" is pretty broad.  Kill that part and let the ".05 BAC" level take care of it.  For instance, I can carry into that restaraunt, I just can't drink while carrying.


Not trying to be critical here, I really think this is great and may be taking it to my local sheriff and SA if it flies at all in Winnebago.  But if there's any chance of changing some of the things above before passage, it might be worth looking into.

Good Job!!
AB

[MARKHOLSTRUM]

I dont think they can legally do it but its a step in the right direction .....during the 1st civil war it was the states standing up to the fed....this time It looks like were going to have to have the counties take the state govt's back for the ppl....then getting washington back in line is a whole other story.

[Buzzard]

Interesting new flag, Mark! Company logos instead of stars, is it?
Looks to me there's a Harley Eagle/Bar and shield, top row, second logo.
I also see Mcdonalds in there. I would certainly expect Walmart is in there too.
Where did you find that? Did you Google American flag / images?

[Gary]

I have to, as a matter of principle, find fault with any concealed carry legislation that is less broad than Vermont style carry.  With that said, I find the Missouri CCW law to be very good.  For instance, the penalty portion of the law is most favorable.  In Illinois, even if you are carrying your unloaded and encased firearm legally but accidently find yourself in a court house, the charge is a felony.  In Missouri, if you do the same thing but with a loaded firearm, the penalty is that you will be asked to take the firearm outside if you have a permit.

Here is a link to the bill that became Missouri's Concealed Carry Law

http://www.learntoca..._Statutes.shtml

[Ocellairs]

jon70, on May 7 2008, 01:45 PM, said:

Another thought, is there any city or county that requires a gun in your home?  I'm not aware of any. This might be another way to push to be heard at the state level.

...come to think of it, there is a town in southern Illinois. I want to say the town of Gore, but don't take it to the bank.

[junglebob]

This topic beats me to one I was thinking of starting about allowing counties to decide if they want to allow concealed carry and have the sheriffs issue if they do.   Since 3/4 of the counties have passed the second amendment resolution and every county that is completely south of I64 there could be large areas of the state that would allow concealed carry if a majority that passed the PRO2A amendment would agree to concealed carry.   Maybe this could even get some support from the north east, as they have little doubt how their county boards would vote.   Let this be in place for say 5 years and maybe even some of those counties might change their minds.   It would need to be at least county wide with no exceptions for home rule communities.  

This would of course create a patch work of counties where you could carry at least outside of southern Illinois but at least we would get concealed carry somewhere.

[Vandal]

I will be contacting both of my County Board Members tomorrow.  It will be interesting to see how the Board Members within Rockford city limits will respond.  I totally support Randy Olson and Doug Aurand in their efforts.

[GarandFan]

Welcome to the site, Vandal.  Hope you make yourself at home here and help us get things done!