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Sixteen Hours of Training AGAIN?

AuroraInstructor

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AuroraInstructor Member

AuroraInstructor

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Has the ISP issued any updated guidance about having to retake the 16 hours of training if your CCL expires? when I saw that on the renewal letter, I was a little bit shocked.

 

Also, I am assuming that if you let your FOID card expire, then your CCL will be revoked, and would that also require you to retake the 16 hours of training all over again?

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Chinto Member

Chinto

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I think it would be based on the applicants training certificate date. Inother words if the applicant's training certificate date is before the currently accepted date (July 2018) and the applicant could not get his certificate reissued from their instructor for any reason, then I would guess the applicant would have to retake the 16 hours. I do not have a special knowledge on this but this would be consistent with past handling of out of date training certificates.

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Quiet Observer Member

Quiet Observer

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Has the ISP issued any updated guidance about having to retake the 16 hours of training if your CCL expires? when I saw that on the renewal letter, I was a little bit shocked.

 

Also, I am assuming that if you let your FOID card expire, then your CCL will be revoked, and would that also require you to retake the 16 hours of training all over again?

 

See this thread; #15 has the response from the ISP.

http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=70361&hl=%2Bretake+%2Btraining#entry1180744

 

It does appear that suspensions and expirations would be handled differently. If your license is suspended, you do not have to retake the training. If it expires, then you are required to retake the 16 hours.

I suppose that if it expires during the suspension period, one would have to retake the 16 hours.

 

As I stated in the other thread, I think the original 16 hours should be permanent credit like former military, police, and other recognized training programs. But the ISP says otherwise.

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Quiet Observer Member

Quiet Observer

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So.... If FOID expires, CCL is not "revoked" but rather "suspended". CCL can be regained after FOID card is reinstated, and CCL suspension can be appealed.

 

If CCL expires,you are back to square one and must redo training classes.

 

MollyB is that right?

 

The FCCA does say "revoked". I added the underline to (h) below. If your FOID has expired, it is no longer valid. This seems extreme for a simple expiration, as compared to being convicted of a felony.

Maybe there are some administrative rules that deal with an expired FOID. Regardless, it would be advisable to be aware of FOID and CCL expiration dates and not count on the ISP to send notifications.

 

 

Sec. 70. Violations.

(a ) A license issued or renewed under this Act shall be revoked if, at any time, the licensee is found to be ineligible for a license under this Act or the licensee no longer meets the eligibility requirements of the Firearm Owners Identification Card Act.

 

(b ) A license shall be suspended if an order of protection, including an emergency order of protection, plenary order of protection, or interim order of protection under Article 112A of the Code of Criminal Procedure of 1963 or under the Illinois Domestic Violence Act of 1986, is issued against a licensee for the duration of the order, or if the Department is made aware of a similar order issued against the licensee in any other jurisdiction. If an order of protection is issued against a licensee, the licensee shall surrender the license, as applicable, to the court at the time the order is entered or to the law enforcement agency or entity serving process at the time the licensee is served the order. The court, law enforcement agency, or entity responsible for serving the order of protection shall notify the Department within 7 days and transmit the license to the Department.

(h) A license issued or renewed under this Act shall be revoked if, at any time, the licensee is found ineligible for a Firearm Owner's Identification Card, or the licensee no longer possesses a valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card. A licensee whose license is revoked under this subsection (h) shall surrender his or her concealed carry license as provided for in subsection (g) of this Section.

This subsection shall not apply to a person who has filed an application with the State Police for renewal of a Firearm Owner's Identification Card and who is not otherwise ineligible to obtain a Firearm Owner's Identification Card.

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Molly B. Member

Molly B.

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So.... If FOID expires, CCL is not "revoked" but rather "suspended". CCL can be regained after FOID card is reinstated, and CCL suspension can be appealed.

 

If CCL expires,you are back to square one and must redo training classes.

 

MollyB is that right?

 

Correct.

 

As of Jan. 1, 2019, the ISP can now 'suspend' rather than revoked CCL's when a FOID card expires. It is my understanding, an appeal will not be necessary, but the ISP has not stated what the process will be. I would hope it will be automatic reinstatement.

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jake8267 Member

jake8267

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Just out of curiosity... Where in the law does it say the training expires? Assuming it doesn't, why can the ISP just declare it does?

 

I actually know a couple people that took the training a couple years ago but never applied. So they will have to retake the training if they decide to apply?

My wife is one of these people. She took in a while back because some friends of her's were taking it, but she saw no point in applying as the only places she went were school and medical facilities for her clinical hours. Now that she's done and working she wants to apply but they are saying her training hours don't count.

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Molly B. Member

Molly B.

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Just out of curiosity... Where in the law does it say the training expires? Assuming it doesn't, why can the ISP just declare it does?

 

I actually know a couple people that took the training a couple years ago but never applied. So they will have to retake the training if they decide to apply?

 

My wife is one of these people. She took in a while back because some friends of her's were taking it, but she saw no point in applying as the only places she went were school and medical facilities for her clinical hours. Now that she's done and working she wants to apply but they are saying her training hours don't count.

Who is saying her training hours don't count? Has she applied?

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junglebob Member

junglebob

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I think it would be based on the applicants training certificate date. Inother words if the applicant's training certificate date is before the currently accepted date (July 2018) and the applicant could not get his certificate reissued from their instructor for any reason, then I would guess the applicant would have to retake the 16 hours. I do not have a special knowledge on this but this would be consistent with past handling of out of date training certificates.

So the ISP won't accept a training certificate that is before July 2018? I was talking with a friend at church yesterday who helped me apply online for a renewal. He mentioned it to his dad who had taken 8 hours of training 4 1/2 years ago and had never applied for his FCCL. He said he helped his dad apply and submitted the training certificate. So I guess they won't accept it.

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drumgod Member

drumgod

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It seems nobody knows exactly what the situation is.

 

Work changes mean I have been carrying very infrequently. My ccl expires in April. I'm considering letting it expire and then reapplying using my original certificate... I wonder if my original trainer would re-issue my cert on the latest forms? Worst case scenario I end up having to re-take the class but I don't see why that would be if the training doesn't expire.

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Quiet Observer Member

Quiet Observer

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Posted

 

Just out of curiosity... Where in the law does it say the training expires? Assuming it doesn't, why can the ISP just declare it does?

 

I actually know a couple people that took the training a couple years ago but never applied. So they will have to retake the training if they decide to apply?

My wife is one of these people. She took in a while back because some friends of her's were taking it, but she saw no point in applying as the only places she went were school and medical facilities for her clinical hours. Now that she's done and working she wants to apply but they are saying her training hours don't count.

 

 

I do not mean to sound insulting, but to point out the misconception she may have had and many others do. People concentrate too much on the road blocks we have.

 

Are you saying that she never drove to, or rode with someone else, to school or the medical facilities? Did she ever go shopping, or visit friends or relatives?

If she were with you on most of those occasions, a second good person carrying could have shortened or stopped a dangerous situation.

If you were seriously injured in accident or became acutely ill, she could have taken possession of your loaded carry weapon. She can do that with a FOID now, but it is simpler if she has a CCL.

 

Congratulations on finishing her health care training and the new job.

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drumgod Member

drumgod

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Please don't do this. It will come back to bite you. Although the certificate does not expire, you have already used it and since you will be expected to take a new 16 how class, ISP will be looking for training dates that are later than the expiration date of your license.

 

That brings us back to my original questions. Why are people expected to retake the training they already took? Does Basic Pistol expire? Hunter's Safety? I suppose I'm just being pedantic at this point.

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Quiet Observer Member

Quiet Observer

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Posted

 

Please don't do this. It will come back to bite you. Although the certificate does not expire, you have already used it and since you will be expected to take a new 16 how class, ISP will be looking for training dates that are later than the expiration date of your license.

 

That brings us back to my original questions. Why are people expected to retake the training they already took? Does Basic Pistol expire? Hunter's Safety? I suppose I'm just being pedantic at this point.

 

The simple answer is that the law requires it.

 

(430 ILCS 66/50)

Sec. 50. License renewal. Applications for renewal of a license shall be made to the Department. A license shall be renewed for a period of 5 years upon receipt of a completed renewal application, completion of 3 hours of training required under Section 75 of this Act, payment of the applicable renewal fee, and completion of an investigation under Section 35 of this Act. The renewal application shall contain the information required in Section 30 of this Act, except that the applicant need not resubmit a full set of fingerprints.

 

One can argue the need or lack of it on philosophical or constitutional bases, but practical matter is that to legally CC in Illinois you must follow the prescribed formula. It is sort of like, “Mom, why can’t I go out with my buddies”? “Because I say so”!

 

Some of the legislators’ logic may have been that the laws could change over 5 years. In a related matter, I see little value of the range qualification with initial licensing or renewal. It indicates little proficiency. At my renewal 2 guys got bit by the slides on their pistols and needed band-aids. That supposedly after 5 years carrying. It gave me a little chuckle.

 

It is all mother Illinois saying, “Because I say so.”

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GenevaCCL Welcome New Member

GenevaCCL

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I stupidly let my FOID expire and my FCCL was revoked. Applied for a new FOID and when it was approved I appealed the FCCL. No additional training required. Just 70 waiting.

 

I did the same thing. Thought my new FOID that came with my CCL had a new expiration date on it. It did not.

 

Tomorrow will be day 90 of waiting for me. Not sure if I'm supposed to be reaching out to someone at this point or just keep waiting.

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Smallbore Member

Smallbore

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Posted

It surprises me that so many do not keep check on their expiration dates. Have too many become dependant on nanny gov.

We got a call yesterday a ccl holder received last Friday his expiration letter. His ccl expired last Friday. We had a class that night. He did bother to call us until yesterday then wants us to just give him a renewal certificate. He is just too busy. It is hard to feel sorry for some people.

One big problem we see is the permit holder is not notifying state police of address change. PO is not forwarding state police notifications.

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GenevaCCL Welcome New Member

GenevaCCL

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It surprises me that so many do not keep check on their expiration dates. Have too many become dependant on nanny gov.

We got a call yesterday a ccl holder received last Friday his expiration letter. His ccl expired last Friday. We had a class that night. He did bother to call us until yesterday then wants us to just give him a renewal certificate. He is just too busy. It is hard to feel sorry for some people.

One big problem we see is the permit holder is not notifying state police of address change. PO is not forwarding state police notifications.

 

In my own defense I don't think it's that off the wall of a mistake to make. You get a shiny new FOID with a new design and a new photo at the same time as your CCL and you just might assume the FOID has a new expiration date.

 

I'm not dependent on the nanny state. It's just a mistake. I didn't want the FOID in the first place - it's unconstitutional. I could have complained that they didn't send me a reminder, but notice I didn't even do that.

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Bubbacs Member

Bubbacs

Posted
Posted

Posted above I. Thread number #6

 

Here is that post if you can’t find it!

 

 

Finally, an email response from the ISP:

 

If the CCL license expires the applicant will have to complete a new CCL application and submit a NEW 16/8 hour training certificate/exemption course verification certificate. An applicant may have a mailing address, however, the USPS does not forward licenses.

 

And to the guy who said above he would just let it expire, why?

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