So lurch kerry says Israel can be either Jewish or democratic but not both.

[wtr100]

That's like saying you can be either pro-gun or democrat not both. Wait that one is true.

 

How about thinking and reasonable or democrat but not both. Hmmm that one is true too.

[WARFACE]

Kerry is just an Obunghole stooge doing what he's told. Old Barry is roiling up the water as best he can for Trumps administration. I'll be glad when Trump wipes out his "legacy". But he gets to keep the part about being the worst POTUS that has ever lived.

[Mr. Fife]

Saw Kerry on the news tonight. He really needs to get his dentures fixed. He sounded like he left them out but you could see that at least some of his lowers were there. Maybe some stronger glue?

[Molly B.]

That's like saying you can be either pro-gun or democrat not both. Wait that one is true.

 

How about thinking and reasonable or democrat but not both. Hmmm that one is true too.

 

 

You are mistaken. Some of our most effective pro-gun legislators are democrat.

[wtr100]

 

That's like saying you can be either pro-gun or democrat not both. Wait that one is true.

 

How about thinking and reasonable or democrat but not both. Hmmm that one is true too.

 

 

You are mistaken. Some of our most effective pro-gun legislators are democrat.

 

 

 

incorrect - democrats keep madigan in power and thus the poor excuse for a law we have with little to no hope in sight for changes

[Molly B.]

 

 

incorrect - democrats keep madigan in power and thus the poor excuse for a law we have with little to no hope in sight for changes

 

 

 

Thanks for the edit . . .

[Kaeghl]

Hmmm....kinda like you can either be an American, or John Kerry, but not both.

 

Yep, that sounds right.

[BobPistol]

I think Kerry's name should be spelled with three K's, due to his attitude about Israel.

[Joe Six Gun]

Perhaps if Israel wouldn't keep encouraging settlements on occupied land we'd have exercised our veto power. I'm pro-Israel, but that doesn't mean I'll support them when they violate international law. We've been telling them for over 30 years that they shouldn't keep aggravating a bad situation & they've just kept right on doing it, but even moreso lately. Give `em back their land & build a wall. When the Palestinians attack Israel, respond with overwhelming force.

[richp]

Hi,

 

Kerry's remarks on this topic are a stunning example of his arrogance -- presuming no other path to democracy is valid but the one he advocates.

 

No wonder the US has lost so much stature and respect throughout the world. Stuff like this, right alongside of the many and various outright mistakes the Obama administration has committed.

 

FWIW.

 

Rich Phillips

[TomKoz]

Perhaps if Israel wouldn't keep encouraging settlements on occupied land we'd have exercised our veto power. I'm pro-Israel, but that doesn't mean I'll support them when they violate international law. We've been telling them for over 30 years that they shouldn't keep aggravating a bad situation & they've just kept right on doing it, but even moreso lately. Give `em back their land & build a wall. When the Palestinians attack Israel, respond with overwhelming force.

 

Would you support our 2A if it was against "international law"?

[Joe Six Gun]

 

Perhaps if Israel wouldn't keep encouraging settlements on occupied land we'd have exercised our veto power. I'm pro-Israel, but that doesn't mean I'll support them when they violate international law. We've been telling them for over 30 years that they shouldn't keep aggravating a bad situation & they've just kept right on doing it, but even moreso lately. Give `em back their land & build a wall. When the Palestinians attack Israel, respond with overwhelming force.

Would you support our 2A if it was against "international law"?

 

Certainly. But our 2A rights don't infringe on other countries right to be sovereign.

[GTX63]

Palestine isn't a country. They are a group of people kept as perpetual refugees and used as a propaganda tool by their middle eastern counterparts. Israel is the size of New Jersey surrounded by a half dozen countries the size of Texas who teach their children to hate jews, publish their maps without Israel on it and vow annihilation as the final solution. If a Jew decided to live next to a Muslim on your block, would you say he was aggravating the situation?

The middle east has more than enough money and land to absorb and resettle palestinian refugees, yet they intentionally and heartlessly don't. Maybe the immigration depts of Jordan, Egypt or Saudi Arabia are still working on their vetting process....

Borders have changed during war since time began, yet the US and Israel are two of just a few countries who don't keep what they conquer.

Don't let the big curtain and the green smoke being pumped out from beneath it fool you. All the pointy heads and professional chin rubbers want you to think this is some multi dimensional complex mathematical string that can only be solved by turning the obvious equation upside down and starting over. Look at a real map and the history of Israel and all you need to know is spelled out.

[BobPistol]

Palestine isn't a country. They are a group of people kept as perpetual refugees and used as a propaganda tool by their middle eastern counterparts. Israel is the size of New Jersey surrounded by a half dozen countries the size of Texas who teach their children to hate jews, publish their maps without Israel on it and vow annihilation as the final solution. If a Jew decided to live next to a Muslim on your block, would you say he was aggravating the situation?

The middle east has more than enough money and land to absorb and resettle palestinian refugees, yet they intentionally and heartlessly don't. Maybe the immigration depts of Jordan, Egypt or Saudi Arabia are still working on their vetting process....

Borders have changed during war since time began, yet the US and Israel are two of just a few countries who don't keep what they conquer.

Don't let the big curtain and the green smoke being pumped out from beneath it fool you. All the pointy heads and professional chin rubbers want you to think this is some multi dimensional complex mathematical string that can only be solved by turning the obvious equation upside down and starting over. Look at a real map and the history of Israel and all you need to know is spelled out.

 

I see it as simple.

 

Israel was created as a "safe space" for Jews to live in, because Jews living in other countries were minorities and treated badly as minorities. Jews come there from all over the world because this would be their home. After WW2, this made a lot of sense.

 

They're surrounded by countries whose attitude toward them is Nazi Germany all over again. Jews existing is "aggravating" their neighbors and the international community (which is anti-semitic)

 

"Settlements" are not evil. Jews are moving in. This is not some "they're taking over the world" megalomaniac group trying to take over the middle east - Israel is a tiny country the size of Rhode Island or Vermont. But when you hear the propaganda, it must be those eeeeeeeeeeevil Jews doing something eeeeeeeeevil again (like simply existing). Just anti-semitism.

[Black Flag]

 

 

Perhaps if Israel wouldn't keep encouraging settlements on occupied land we'd have exercised our veto power. I'm pro-Israel, but that doesn't mean I'll support them when they violate international law. We've been telling them for over 30 years that they shouldn't keep aggravating a bad situation & they've just kept right on doing it, but even moreso lately. Give `em back their land & build a wall. When the Palestinians attack Israel, respond with overwhelming force.

Would you support our 2A if it was against "international law"?

 

Certainly. But our 2A rights don't infringe on other countries right to be sovereign.

 

And just how did Israel "occupy" that land?

 

This isn't football, they didn't wake up one morning and decide to move the 10 yd chains.

 

Israel's sovereign neighbors have tried on more than one occasion to push Israel into the sea.

 

That land is the spoils of a war that Israel did not start. Shall Jerusalem be divided again?

 

 

Build away. Right up to the fence.

[Raw Power]

That's like saying you can be either pro-gun or democrat not both. Wait that one is true.

 

How about thinking and reasonable or democrat but not both. Hmmm that one is true too.

 

Not that I like Kerry, but he didn't say that.

[Druid]

Correct - from this history as I understand it the West Bank or "occupied land" as they call it was owned by Jordan - and they renounced their possession of it after coming out on the losing side of the 1967 war. The Palestinians never had a state there. Right? So I don't see why the USA or anyone else has business insisting that Israel not build on the land. They are not in "violation of international law" as I see it.

 

From one point of view:

http://www.breitbart.com/jerusalem/2016/12/22/eight-anti-israel-outrages-inside-un-draft-resolution-settlements/

[CHICAGO HANDGUN OWNER]

The crux of the problem over there is religion, specifically Judaism. If you believe in a religion that states that God is a racist and chose your people, the Jewish people, above all the other people on the earth to be superior. If you believe that all people who are non members of your tribe are inferior cattle or "goyim" then how can you honestly negotiate with another people who lived on the land for 2000 years before you invaded and colonized their land? Claiming that the land is yours because the Bible says so is arguing from a book written by cavemen. Claiming that "God gave this land to the Jews" is the most absurd thing in the world. The only people who believe this are brainwashed Jews and Christians who believe the cultural mythology of the Bible is actually history. The Bible was written by bronze age, narcissistic Jews who chose themselves (the self chosen ones) to be above all other peoples of the earth. You could say they were a bunch of primitive egomaniacs. In any case there will never be peace in the mid east because of religion which is the root of all evil. All American politicians have to sign a loyalty oath to Israel in order to get elected. The Israeli lobby totally controls American foreign policy. When you watch every politician debate they all have to prove that they love Israel more than the other guys do! Its a complete joke. Anyone with insight knows this is because of the Israeli Lobby's big money donations which can make or break a politician. Do you see American politicians mention unwavering love to any other countries in their debates? NO! I didn't hear Ted Cruz or any of the nominees say America's relationship with England, Italy, Spain, Germany, Australia, is "unbreakable" "undying" "never ending" etc etc When Modern Man evolves enough to realize that religions are all culturally invented then the chance for peace in the world will be much greater. It might take another 300 years.

[tkroenlein]

The crux of the problem over there is religion, specifically Judaism. If you believe in a religion that states that God is a racist and chose your people, the Jewish people, above all the other people on the earth to be superior. If you believe that all people who are non members of your tribe are inferior cattle or "goyim" then how can you honestly negotiate with another people who lived on the land for 2000 years before you invaded and colonized their land? Claiming that the land is yours because the Bible says so is arguing from a book written by cavemen. Claiming that "God gave this land to the Jews" is the most absurd thing in the world. The only people who believe this are brainwashed Jews and Christians who believe the cultural mythology of the Bible is actually history. The Bible was written by bronze age, narcissistic Jews who chose themselves (the self chosen ones) to be above all other peoples of the earth. You could say they were a bunch of primitive egomaniacs. In any case there will never be peace in the mid east because of religion which is the root of all evil. All American politicians have to sign a loyalty oath to Israel in order to get elected. The Israeli lobby totally controls American foreign policy. When you watch every politician debate they all have to prove that they love Israel more than the other guys do! Its a complete joke. Anyone with insight knows this is because of the Israeli Lobby's big money donations which can make or break a politician. Do you see American politicians mention unwavering love to any other countries in their debates? NO! I didn't hear Ted Cruz or any of the nominees say America's relationship with England, Italy, Spain, Germany, Australia, is "unbreakable" "undying" "never ending" etc etc When Modern Man evolves enough to realize that religions are all culturally invented then the chance for peace in the world will be much greater. It might take another 300 years.

The only religions that teach superiority that I'm aware of are Islam and Scientology.

 

I suppose you're right though. If the Jews and Christians would just give up and let themselves be murdered by the terrorist jihadi muslims, there wouldn't be a conflict any more.

 

Think about that the next time you're wondering whether or not you should shoot that dog chewing on your leg; if you let him eat you, he won't be angry and may become a peaceful dog.

[Hazborgufen]

You're letting partisanship stop you from understanding what Kerry actually said and meant. He wasn't saying that a Jewish state can't also be democratic. He was saying that a single state solution would result in a situation where the demographics of the state would prevent the possibility of a Jewish democracy from existing.

 

The full quote:

 

"Today, there are a number – there are a similar number of Jews and Palestinians living between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea. They have a choice. They can choose to live together in one state, or they can separate into two states. But here is a fundamental reality: if the choice is one state, Israel can either be Jewish or democratic – it cannot be both"

 

Meaning that if Israel implements a single state, the Palestinians would become citizens of Israel. If Israel remains a democracy, the Arab-Israeli population would match Jewish-Israelis. Thus Israel would be a democracy but it would cease to be a Jewish state. If, on the other hand, the Arab-Israelis weren't allowed to vote, then Israel would remain a Jewish state but cease to be a democracy.

 

It's an argument for a two state solution, not whatever it is that the OP was implying.

 

And yes, we liberals can be pro-gun.

[Black Flag]

The crux of the problem over there is religion, specifically Judaism. If you believe in a religion that states that God is a racist and chose your people, the Jewish people, above all the other people on the earth to be superior. If you believe that all people who are non members of your tribe are inferior cattle or "goyim" then how can you honestly negotiate with another people who lived on the land for 2000 years before you invaded and colonized their land? Claiming that the land is yours because the Bible says so is arguing from a book written by cavemen. Claiming that "God gave this land to the Jews" is the most absurd thing in the world. The only people who believe this are brainwashed Jews and Christians who believe the cultural mythology of the Bible is actually history. The Bible was written by bronze age, narcissistic Jews who chose themselves (the self chosen ones) to be above all other peoples of the earth. You could say they were a bunch of primitive egomaniacs. In any case there will never be peace in the mid east because of religion which is the root of all evil. All American politicians have to sign a loyalty oath to Israel in order to get elected. The Israeli lobby totally controls American foreign policy. When you watch every politician debate they all have to prove that they love Israel more than the other guys do! Its a complete joke. Anyone with insight knows this is because of the Israeli Lobby's big money donations which can make or break a politician. Do you see American politicians mention unwavering love to any other countries in their debates? NO! I didn't hear Ted Cruz or any of the nominees say America's relationship with England, Italy, Spain, Germany, Australia, is "unbreakable" "undying" "never ending" etc etc When Modern Man evolves enough to realize that religions are all culturally invented then the chance for peace in the world will be much greater. It might take another 300 years.

 

>>>> how can you honestly negotiate with another people who lived on the land for 2000 years before you invaded and colonized their land?

 

Really?

Two words: Manifest Destiny.

 

We're all land grabbers.

 

Unless your people have been *here* for 2000+ years...

[TomKoz]

 

The crux of the problem over there is religion, specifically Judaism. If you believe in a religion that states that God is a racist and chose your people, the Jewish people, above all the other people on the earth to be superior. If you believe that all people who are non members of your tribe are inferior cattle or "goyim" then how can you honestly negotiate with another people who lived on the land for 2000 years before you invaded and colonized their land? Claiming that the land is yours because the Bible says so is arguing from a book written by cavemen. Claiming that "God gave this land to the Jews" is the most absurd thing in the world. The only people who believe this are brainwashed Jews and Christians who believe the cultural mythology of the Bible is actually history. The Bible was written by bronze age, narcissistic Jews who chose themselves (the self chosen ones) to be above all other peoples of the earth. You could say they were a bunch of primitive egomaniacs. In any case there will never be peace in the mid east because of religion which is the root of all evil. All American politicians have to sign a loyalty oath to Israel in order to get elected. The Israeli lobby totally controls American foreign policy. When you watch every politician debate they all have to prove that they love Israel more than the other guys do! Its a complete joke. Anyone with insight knows this is because of the Israeli Lobby's big money donations which can make or break a politician. Do you see American politicians mention unwavering love to any other countries in their debates? NO! I didn't hear Ted Cruz or any of the nominees say America's relationship with England, Italy, Spain, Germany, Australia, is "unbreakable" "undying" "never ending" etc etc When Modern Man evolves enough to realize that religions are all culturally invented then the chance for peace in the world will be much greater. It might take another 300 years.

 

The only religions that teach superiority that I'm aware of are Islam and Scientology.

I suppose you're right though. If the Jews and Christians would just give up and let themselves be murdered by the terrorist jihadi muslims, there wouldn't be a conflict any more.

Think about that the next time you're wondering whether or not you should shoot that dog chewing on your leg; if you let him eat you, he won't be angry and may become a peaceful dog.

+ 100.

 

Though he/she still won't get it.

[Raw Power]

 

The crux of the problem over there is religion, specifically Judaism. If you believe in a religion that states that God is a racist and chose your people, the Jewish people, above all the other people on the earth to be superior. If you believe that all people who are non members of your tribe are inferior cattle or "goyim" then how can you honestly negotiate with another people who lived on the land for 2000 years before you invaded and colonized their land? Claiming that the land is yours because the Bible says so is arguing from a book written by cavemen. Claiming that "God gave this land to the Jews" is the most absurd thing in the world. The only people who believe this are brainwashed Jews and Christians who believe the cultural mythology of the Bible is actually history. The Bible was written by bronze age, narcissistic Jews who chose themselves (the self chosen ones) to be above all other peoples of the earth. You could say they were a bunch of primitive egomaniacs. In any case there will never be peace in the mid east because of religion which is the root of all evil. All American politicians have to sign a loyalty oath to Israel in order to get elected. The Israeli lobby totally controls American foreign policy. When you watch every politician debate they all have to prove that they love Israel more than the other guys do! Its a complete joke. Anyone with insight knows this is because of the Israeli Lobby's big money donations which can make or break a politician. Do you see American politicians mention unwavering love to any other countries in their debates? NO! I didn't hear Ted Cruz or any of the nominees say America's relationship with England, Italy, Spain, Germany, Australia, is "unbreakable" "undying" "never ending" etc etc When Modern Man evolves enough to realize that religions are all culturally invented then the chance for peace in the world will be much greater. It might take another 300 years.

The only religions that teach superiority that I'm aware of are Islam and Scientology.

 

I suppose you're right though. If the Jews and Christians would just give up and let themselves be murdered by the terrorist jihadi muslims, there wouldn't be a conflict any more.

 

Think about that the next time you're wondering whether or not you should shoot that dog chewing on your leg; if you let him eat you, he won't be angry and may become a peaceful dog.

 

 

Fundamentalists of all faiths teach religious superiority.

 

And the state of Israel is hardly without responsibility for the conflict. In regards to this specific element of the conflict, the settlements ARE in violation of international law, and have been for almost 50 years. The UN resolution is simply reiterating what has already been stated dozens of times. You may not like the law, but that is what the law is. We deal with that all the time in the 2nd amendment community.

[tkroenlein]

 

 

The crux of the problem over there is religion, specifically Judaism. If you believe in a religion that states that God is a racist and chose your people, the Jewish people, above all the other people on the earth to be superior. If you believe that all people who are non members of your tribe are inferior cattle or "goyim" then how can you honestly negotiate with another people who lived on the land for 2000 years before you invaded and colonized their land? Claiming that the land is yours because the Bible says so is arguing from a book written by cavemen. Claiming that "God gave this land to the Jews" is the most absurd thing in the world. The only people who believe this are brainwashed Jews and Christians who believe the cultural mythology of the Bible is actually history. The Bible was written by bronze age, narcissistic Jews who chose themselves (the self chosen ones) to be above all other peoples of the earth. You could say they were a bunch of primitive egomaniacs. In any case there will never be peace in the mid east because of religion which is the root of all evil. All American politicians have to sign a loyalty oath to Israel in order to get elected. The Israeli lobby totally controls American foreign policy. When you watch every politician debate they all have to prove that they love Israel more than the other guys do! Its a complete joke. Anyone with insight knows this is because of the Israeli Lobby's big money donations which can make or break a politician. Do you see American politicians mention unwavering love to any other countries in their debates? NO! I didn't hear Ted Cruz or any of the nominees say America's relationship with England, Italy, Spain, Germany, Australia, is "unbreakable" "undying" "never ending" etc etc When Modern Man evolves enough to realize that religions are all culturally invented then the chance for peace in the world will be much greater. It might take another 300 years.

 

 

The only religions that teach superiority that I'm aware of are Islam and Scientology.

I suppose you're right though. If the Jews and Christians would just give up and let themselves be murdered by the terrorist jihadi muslims, there wouldn't be a conflict any more.

Think about that the next time you're wondering whether or not you should shoot that dog chewing on your leg; if you let him eat you, he won't be angry and may become a peaceful dog.

 

 

 

 

Fundamentalists of all faiths teach religious superiority.

 

And the state of Israel is hardly without responsibility for the conflict. In regards to this specific element of the conflict, the settlements ARE in violation of international law, and have been for almost 50 years. The UN resolution is simply reiterating what has already been stated dozens of times. You may not like the law, but that is what the law is. We deal with that all the time in the 2nd amendment community.

What "international law"? No sovereign nation is beholden to that UN crap. The "palestinian state" (much like ISIS is a state) is governed by Hamas, a militant, jihadist, muslim organization. They fire their rockets at Israel from schools and hospitals. They shield themselves from retaliation for their heinous acts against Israel with women and children. They are cowards, the whole lot of them.

 

Israel has no responsibility in muslim jihadists trying to annihilate them.

 

And the comment was not about religious superiority, but racial superiority.

 

Exodus 22:21

You shall neither mistreat a stranger nor oppress him, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt.

 

 

^That's what Judaism teaches.

[Hap]

For those who think that it would be helpful for Israel to withdraw from the West Bank and vacate the settlements which have been built there, it might be instructive to contemplate what's happened with Gaza since Israel withdrew - in 2005, evicting Jewish settlers and dismantling the settlements which had been built there.

 

Meanwhile, as to whether Israel can be simultaneously Jewish and democratic, let's leave that to the Israelis to work out. Whatever they come up with will, I'm sure, look pretty good compared to, say, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and the other theocracies in that region. None of which Obama and Kerry have worried about, by the way.

[Druid]

Yes., good point Hap. It's now as if the Obama administration is ignoring prior agreements about settlements made by the previous administration with Israel.

 

Also keep in mind that Israel has offered the Palestinians their own State many times, and each time they refuse without offering any counteroffers.

[TomKoz]

How would YOU negotiate with people that not only want, but continue to try to kill you and your entire family?

[Joe Six Gun]

"Spoils of war" is a pretty weak argument to base an argument on, that logic was also used to justify looting, rape & subjugation. If Israel really thought those lands were properly theirs, why didn't they just declare them part of their state & be done with it? I still side with the rest of the world on this one.

[Hap]

Most Israelis, if they thought they could actually buy genuine, lasting peace, would pay almost any price - in land, or anything else. What they will not do is commit national suicide..

[Raw Power]

Most Israelis, if they thought they could actually buy genuine, lasting peace, would pay almost any price - in land, or anything else. What they will not do is commit national suicide..

 

Settlements with armed occupiers on someone else's land are a roadblock to peace. If peace is the goal, then don't put up road blocks to peace.