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SunTimes Editorial - Itís about the guns


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#1 InterestedBystander

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Posted 04 August 2019 - 04:17 PM

What a load...
Its not mental health?
It couldnt have happened with a handgun or other .233 rifle?
Ban semi-autos?
251 mass shootings so far?
The CA and TX shooters passed BGC and bought legally at LGS. OH unknown right now.What was going to stop this?
Required mental health checks before purchase?

full story at link

https://chicago.sunt...times-editorial

...Had the United States, like almost every other civilized country, long ago banned the general sale and ownership of assault weapons, 20 men, women and children in El Paso, Texas, still would be alive today.

It would not matter, reprehensible as it is, that President Donald Trump has been stirring up hatred toward immigrants. The killer at the Walmart on Saturday, who apparently fumed online about the Hispanic invasion of Texas just before his rampage, could not have been so lethal without his military-style semiautomatic rifle.

In the same way, it would not matter what drove the killer in downtown Dayton, Ohio, early on Sunday morning. Were it not for his assault-style weapon reportedly a .223-caliber rifle nine people still would be alive today. The police shot the killer down in less than a minute, but too late.

And it would not matter what drove the killer last Sunday at a garlic festival in Gilroy, California. Were it not for his AK-47-style assault rifle, a little boy, a teenage girl and a 25-year-old man still would be alive.

Its about the guns. Every other explanation can get in line.

More than one mass shooting a day
The United States has seen 251 mass shootings in 216 days this year, defined as incidents in which four or more people were shot or killed not including the shooter and the only common denominator is that somebody had a gun who should not have had one, often a knock-off of a military gun designed to mow down soldiers in combat.

We tell ourselves that our nation has a mental health problem but, as the New York Times reports, studies show that Americans have no more mental health problems than do people in other countries with far fewer mass shootings....

Edited by InterestedBystander, 04 August 2019 - 04:36 PM.

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#2 FST_Kent

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Posted 04 August 2019 - 05:27 PM

Ya know, nobody wrote letters to the editor complaining after the Sun-Times printed the full page article by their outdoor writer Dale Bowman about his experience shooting AR's with me and with a pic of me shooting an AR in the sports section back in 2007.

 

They were all "evil and scary" back then too, weren't they?

 

Funniest thing about the AR I'm shooting, is that it's one of those "much safer" Clinton banned models with a standard stock, no bayonet lug, and a permanently attached muzzle brake.



#3 defaultdotxbe

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Posted 04 August 2019 - 05:47 PM

They lament the number of mass shootings, but fail to mention the vast majority of them are not committed with those evil "assault weapons"


"The cheek of every American must tingle with shame as he reads the silly,
flat, and dishwatery utterances of the man who has to be pointed out to
intelligent foreigners as the President of the United States."
-Chicago Times review of Lincoln's Gettysburg Address.


#4 InterestedBystander

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Posted 04 August 2019 - 06:04 PM

An AP/USA TODAY/NORTHWESTERN database says only 22 this year. Someones mass shooting numbers are way off.
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#5 defaultdotxbe

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Posted 04 August 2019 - 06:20 PM

An AP/USA TODAY/NORTHWESTERN database says only 22 this year. Someones mass shooting numbers are way off.

They use different definitions depending on the talking point. The 22 figure probably means 4 or more killed in a random, public shooting. The 251 number refers to 4 or more shot, but not necessarily killed, and includes targeted shootings like gang violence

 

They of course throw them out interchangeably to make you think that we have 20+ killed every day


"The cheek of every American must tingle with shame as he reads the silly,
flat, and dishwatery utterances of the man who has to be pointed out to
intelligent foreigners as the President of the United States."
-Chicago Times review of Lincoln's Gettysburg Address.


#6 Raw Power

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Posted 04 August 2019 - 06:38 PM

 

An AP/USA TODAY/NORTHWESTERN database says only 22 this year. Someones mass shooting numbers are way off.

They use different definitions depending on the talking point. The 22 figure probably means 4 or more killed in a random, public shooting. The 251 number refers to 4 or more shot, but not necessarily killed, and includes targeted shootings like gang violence

 

They of course throw them out interchangeably to make you think that we have 20+ killed every day

 

 

Not 4 killed, 4 shot. The incidents can take place blocks away. By that definition, Chicago has a mass shooting nearly every weekend.



#7 defaultdotxbe

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Posted 04 August 2019 - 06:48 PM

 

 

An AP/USA TODAY/NORTHWESTERN database says only 22 this year. Someones mass shooting numbers are way off.

They use different definitions depending on the talking point. The 22 figure probably means 4 or more killed in a random, public shooting. The 251 number refers to 4 or more shot, but not necessarily killed, and includes targeted shootings like gang violence

 

They of course throw them out interchangeably to make you think that we have 20+ killed every day

 

 

Not 4 killed, 4 shot. The incidents can take place blocks away. By that definition, Chicago has a mass shooting nearly every weekend.

 

The FBI definition is 4 killed, which is how the AP and others arrive at 22. The Sun-Times is usuing the "4 shot" definition to claim over 200


"The cheek of every American must tingle with shame as he reads the silly,
flat, and dishwatery utterances of the man who has to be pointed out to
intelligent foreigners as the President of the United States."
-Chicago Times review of Lincoln's Gettysburg Address.


#8 Flynn

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Posted 04 August 2019 - 07:51 PM

defined as incidents in which four or more people were shot or killed not including the shooter and the only common denominator is that somebody had a gun who should not have had one

 

I just love this silly logic, it proves to me right away the person isn't worth listening to as they are full of hyperbole...

 

You know what is the only common denominator in stabbings, yep you guessed it someone that should not have had a pointy object had a pointy object...

 

And another, you know what the only common denominator to people killed by blunt force objects is?  Take a guess you don't need a rocket science degree to figure it out, although I suspect most liberal nutwings will struggle with an answer...


Edited by Flynn, 04 August 2019 - 07:52 PM.

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#9 lockman

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Posted 04 August 2019 - 09:31 PM

ABC7 reported Chicago had multiple shootings Saturday and Sunday. Two of them were by definition mass shootings with 7 and 8 victims shot , although they were not described by ABC7 as mass shootings. ^ this ***

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#10 InterestedBystander

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Posted 04 August 2019 - 10:26 PM

ABC7 reported Chicago had multiple shootings Saturday and Sunday. Two of them were by definition mass shootings with 7 and 8 victims shot , although they were not described by ABC7 as mass shootings.


^ this ***

Sun times is reporting 4 killed and 43 shot since Friday PM. 8 dead and 40 shot last weekend.
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#11 Windermere

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Posted 05 August 2019 - 04:02 AM

If there were no guns, I’m afraid of the methods that homicidal people would use instead
"Always remember, your ability to shoot and have a firearm makes it so that you are not subjected to the whims of other people without your permission. So, in other words, if you don't want to get raped, robbed, pillaged, or plundered... get a gun."
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#12 Odinson

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Posted 05 August 2019 - 05:49 AM

100st stabbing death of 2019 in London happened on 14 May2019.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-48186035



#13 skinnyb82

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Posted 05 August 2019 - 06:34 AM

If there were no guns, I’m afraid of the methods that homicidal people would use instead

Could go find a weapon in about 10 seconds in the plumbing department at your local big box home improvement store. Or at Walmart in the sporting goods department (baseball bat, something like that). Or in the auto department (tire iron). Tools sledgehammer, axe, etc). Uhhh....shoes. Personal hygiene products, specifically toothbrushes (file it down). Toilet paper (paper mache shank). Car dealership or just steal a car (the obvious). Gosh I could keep going but what's the point.

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#14 Nanook

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Posted 05 August 2019 - 08:01 AM

Doctors kill over 600 people each day "practicing medicine" from what I've read. Over 250,000 each year. Ban doctors? I don't think so. 

 

Car accidents kill hundreds each day across this country. The last 3 years over 40,000 per year. Nobody wants to ban cars. 

 

I read recently that 3600 babies were killed over the weekend by legal abortions. In 2015 alone, over 600,000 killed. Those were reported to CDC, there were probably more. Over 60 million killed since 1973. The WHO estimates 40-50 million abortions worldwide each year. These numbers, to the left, are a good thing. If our most vulnerable are treated this way, what would they do to the rest of us once they get all the guns? Think Cambodia. 

 

And you can kill someone using just your bare hands, especially if there is a force disparity between the two people involved. 

 

I'd like to know the number of American citizens killed each year by illegals, but the media tamps that news down as much as they can. 

 

Guns are tools, just like typewriters and word processors. The Sun-Times should realize this, but they've been a fish wrapper for decades. 

They probably have more caged birds seeing their papers than people. 


“A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices.” -- George Orwell

 


#15 jim123

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Posted 05 August 2019 - 08:43 AM

 

If there were no guns, I’m afraid of the methods that homicidal people would use instead

Could go find a weapon in about 10 seconds in the plumbing department at your local big box home improvement store. Or at Walmart in the sporting goods department (baseball bat, something like that). Or in the auto department (tire iron). Tools sledgehammer, axe, etc). Uhhh....shoes. Personal hygiene products, specifically toothbrushes (file it down). Toilet paper (paper mache shank). Car dealership or just steal a car (the obvious). Gosh I could keep going but what's the point.

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Just about everyone in modern society is walking with two of these weapons of death that need to be banned right now!

 

"Crystal Stevens was killed after her boyfriend, Clifton Ruggs, allegedly choked her to death with a shoe string."

https://www.wdtv.com...-513179331.html



#16 skinnyb82

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Posted 05 August 2019 - 08:50 AM

Oh yes, appendages are a given. Arms, legs, skull (headbutt to death?). Or the morbidly obese could simply crush someone. Strong person could bear hug someone to death quite easily. Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk
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#17 GWBH

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Posted 05 August 2019 - 09:32 AM

The reality is this - Ya can't stop crazy.


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#18 InterestedBystander

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Posted 05 August 2019 - 09:37 AM

He is getting grief for the tweet below:

Neil deGrasse Tyson
@neiltyson

In the past 48hrs, the USA horrifically lost 34 people to mass shootings.

On average, across any 48hrs, we also lose…

500 to Medical errors
300 to the Flu
250 to Suicide
200 to Car Accidents
40 to Homicide via Handgun

Often our emotions respond more to spectacle than to data.
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#19 skinnyb82

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Posted 05 August 2019 - 09:45 AM

Watching the left turn on him. He points out statistics and is ripped a new one. Now maybe he sees that his buddies aren't so reasonable when someone disagrees with them. He's a hero of the climate change movement but he dared question gun control. That's a mortal sin insofar as the left is concerned. They should just draft and publish their own Bible since their beliefs are so sacred to them that it's effectively become a religion. Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk
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#20 TomKoz

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Posted 05 August 2019 - 10:44 AM

More Americans killed by those in US illegally on annual basis than by “assault weapons” !

Prove me wrong.
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#21 skinnyb82

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Posted 05 August 2019 - 11:09 AM

Little known facts. Look at how it all turned out. The largest mass shooting in U.S. history happened Dec. 29, 1890 when 297 Sioux Indians at Wounded Knee Creek on the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation in South Dakota were murdered by federal agents and members of the 7th Cavalry who had come to confiscate their firearms “for their own safety and protection.” https://www.heraldne...y-2nd-amendment Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk
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#22 harley1955

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Posted 05 August 2019 - 11:33 AM

Did anyone see JB's response to the shootings this weekend? Here it is:

 

"We cannot sit idly by as horrific acts of violence perpetuated by hate become a regular occurrence in our nation. In under 24 hours, we’ve seen mass shootings claim dozens of lives in El Paso and Dayton. It’s heartbreaking and unacceptable. Gun violence has become a public health epidemic, and it’s our duty to interrupt it. To keep weapons of war off our streets. To provide mental health resources to those who need it. To stop President Trump’s rhetoric fomenting white supremacy. Lives depend on it.Thoughts and prayers are simply not enough."

 

When the fall session starts expect to see a bill banning AR and AK style rifles and magazines over 10 rounds and god only know what else they'll come up with. And there is nothing we can do to stop them.



#23 Jeffrey

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Posted 05 August 2019 - 11:47 AM

He is getting grief for the tweet below:
Neil deGrasse Tyson
@neiltyson
In the past 48hrs, the USA horrifically lost 34 people to mass shootings.
On average, across any 48hrs, we also lose…
500 to Medical errors
300 to the Flu
250 to Suicide
200 to Car Accidents
40 to Homicide via Handgun
Often our emotions respond more to spectacle than to data.

And not a single word to debate his facts given. But since when do they focus on fact.


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#24 Flynn

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Posted 05 August 2019 - 01:09 PM

And there is nothing we can do to stop them.

 

We can't stop legislative actions in this state right now, but we can continue to fight them in the courts.

 

If the NY case in front of the Supreme Court pans out as many suspect and the court rules that strict scrutiny applies to the 2nd, then blanket AWBs and the sorts are almost certain to fail that test and fall like dominos.


Edited by Flynn, 05 August 2019 - 01:09 PM.

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#25 skinnyb82

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Posted 05 August 2019 - 01:20 PM

If the NY case in front of the Supreme Court pans out as many suspect and the court rules that strict scrutiny applies to the 2nd, then blanket AWBs and the sorts are almost certain to fail that test and fall like dominos.
I think I peed my pants when CA4 applied it in Kolbe, but that was too good to be true. Most gun control laws fail strict scrutiny. About the only thing the government could do is ban you from owning nuclear weapons or something like that. Or owning an operable howitzer in the middle of an urban area. Case could easily be made that unrestricted civilian ownership of field artillery is a bad idea. I digress. Most laws, overall, fail strict scrutiny. Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk
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#26 Flynn

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Posted 05 August 2019 - 01:36 PM

 

If the NY case in front of the Supreme Court pans out as many suspect and the court rules that strict scrutiny applies to the 2nd, then blanket AWBs and the sorts are almost certain to fail that test and fall like dominos.
I think I peed my pants when CA4 applied it in Kolbe, but that was too good to be true. Most gun control laws fail strict scrutiny. About the only thing the government could do is ban you from owning nuclear weapons or something like that. Or owning an operable howitzer in the middle of an urban area. Case could easily be made that unrestricted civilian ownership of field artillery is a bad idea. I digress. Most laws, overall, fail strict scrutiny. Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk

 

 

And if strict scrutiny is ruled applicable to the 2nd, this puts the lower liberal courts in a bind, if they attempt to shift the strict scrutiny burden lower for 2nd cases then that same lower shift would apply to their liberal causes as well and open up a big can of worms in the courts under them until the Supreme Court steps in again.

 

But, this all assumes the NY case outcome is strict scrutiny and the SC doesn't whiff.

 

Right now, I'm just going to sit back and see what happens with the NY case this fall, at that time we will have a better picture of where to focus the 2nd rights fight.


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#27 Euler

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Posted 05 August 2019 - 01:43 PM

... Most gun control laws fail strict scrutiny. About the only thing the government could do is ban you from owning nuclear weapons or something like that. Or owning an operable howitzer in the middle of an urban area. Case could easily be made that unrestricted civilian ownership of field artillery is a bad idea. ...


If the response to a threat is proportional to the threat and sufficient to overcome it, you'd have a tough time arguing for individual ownership of nuclear weapons and field artillery (or even grenade launchers). If you're legally responsible for every bullet that leaves your gun, you'd be responsible for all the collateral injuries and deaths caused by explosions, of which there'd probably be many.
The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants, and it provides the further advantage of giving the servants of tyranny a good conscience.

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#28 skinnyb82

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Posted 05 August 2019 - 02:17 PM

Agreed. Playing with a howitzer when you have no idea What the hey!!! you're doing = bad idea. And I barely trust our own government with nuclear weapons, much less Cletus down the road from me. Then again Cletus is more trustworthy than the government so maybe I should rethink that position. Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk

Edited by skinnyb82, 05 August 2019 - 02:18 PM.

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#29 GWBH

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Posted 05 August 2019 - 02:46 PM

Agreed. Playing with a howitzer when you have no idea What the hey!!! you're doing = bad idea. And I barely trust our own government with nuclear weapons, much less Cletus down the road from me. Then again Cletus is more trustworthy than the government so maybe I should rethink that position. Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk

There were so many cannons littering the landscape before the Revolutionary War that they were used as road signs to point to bars and towns, rusting and rotting in the elements. When the time came for them to be needed, many were found to be damaged beyond repair. A field gun of that type requires special wheels with a proper dish to disperse the weight, and a limber with ammunition and spare wheels. Crafting a wheel that can take the kind of punishment as those did was not only a skill but an art as the roads were unpaved, filled with potholes and ruts, and often wet and muddy. Artillery had to be pulled for miles over rough terrain.

 

The state of barrel making technology was also more of an art than a science. Cannons had to be proofed and they could explode with the very first round. Touch holes would burn through and could explode as well. Old cannons were often used as counterweights on farms or ballast in ships, but if attempting to fire one, you were taking your life into your own hands. Even during the Civil War the cannons made for the Confederacy by the Tredegar Iron Works often exploded upon first use because the South had to skimp on materials because of shortages.

 

But yes, anyone could own a cannon. The question in those days was, "Why would you bother?"

 

One man who privately owned cannons was John Stark of the New Hampshire regiments who fought at Bunker Hill and donated his artillery pieces to the Continental Army . One of his cannons is still fired ceremoniously on occasion and another is mounted at the top of the Bunker Hill Monument in Boston. It was he who said, "Live Free or Die, death is not the worst of evils” which adorns the NH license plates.


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#30 RS1

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Posted 05 August 2019 - 02:46 PM

 
"We cannot sit idly by as horrific acts of violence perpetuated by hate become a regular occurrence in our nation. In under 24 hours, we’ve seen mass shootings claim dozens of lives in El Paso and Dayton. It’s heartbreaking and unacceptable.
 

But he can sit idly by when it happens in his home state on a daily basis? He's "governing" over weekly mass shootings in Chicago. Clearly he's already working on his national image, Illinois be damned.




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