Molly B. Posted February 22, 2018 at 06:22 PM Share Posted February 22, 2018 at 06:22 PM A Trib reporter - that I trust - is wanting do an interview today with a teacher who supports teachers carrying firearms in school. Do we have anyone willing? If so, send me a private message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molly B. Posted February 22, 2018 at 06:31 PM Author Share Posted February 22, 2018 at 06:31 PM There are definitely teachers speaking out AGAINST arming our teachers - we need to make sure our side is represented! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atmosphere0284 Posted February 22, 2018 at 06:56 PM Share Posted February 22, 2018 at 06:56 PM PM sent. A bit long winded due to some copy and pasting but the suggestion may be worth a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molly B. Posted February 22, 2018 at 07:17 PM Author Share Posted February 22, 2018 at 07:17 PM Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
357 Posted February 22, 2018 at 09:14 PM Share Posted February 22, 2018 at 09:14 PM The schools would be secured with metal detector and police at the entrance. Also saying that armed teacher would be seen as the shooter by the first responders, that's what the 911 dispatcher is for to relay to police where the armed teacher is located. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howie Posted February 22, 2018 at 10:31 PM Share Posted February 22, 2018 at 10:31 PM PM sent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hgmeyer Posted February 22, 2018 at 10:54 PM Share Posted February 22, 2018 at 10:54 PM The schools would be secured with metal detector and police at the entrance. Also saying that armed teacher would be seen as the shooter by the first responders, that's what the 911 dispatcher is for to relay to police where the armed teacher is located.THE "Armed teachers being misidentified as bad guys can be greatly minimized by color of the day and other simple procedures. Not nearly the problem it is described as by the opponents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet Observer Posted February 22, 2018 at 11:10 PM Share Posted February 22, 2018 at 11:10 PM The schools would be secured with metal detector and police at the entrance. Also saying that armed teacher would be seen as the shooter by the first responders, that's what the 911 dispatcher is for to relay to police where the armed teacher is located. If they would (not could) be ID'ed as the shooter, then any of us would be ID'ed as the aggressor shooter in another situation. That sounds like an argument against concealed carry for any of us. Common sense indicates that the school would have procedures for a shooter drill which would indicate procedures to be followed by staff, students, and trained teacher carriers. Police are going to be briefed of the situation before and on arrival. In most, if not all, of these school shootings, the shooting has ended before the police arrive. There would be no reason for the teacher to have a gun in hand in most cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundguy Posted February 22, 2018 at 11:54 PM Share Posted February 22, 2018 at 11:54 PM The schools would be secured with metal detector and police at the entrance. Also saying that armed teacher would be seen as the shooter by the first responders, that's what the 911 dispatcher is for to relay to police where the armed teacher is located. If they would (not could) be ID'ed as the shooter, then any of us would be ID'ed as the aggressor shooter in another situation. That sounds like an argument against concealed carry for any of us. Common sense indicates that the school would have procedures for a shooter drill which would indicate procedures to be followed by staff, students, and trained teacher carriers. Police are going to be briefed of the situation before and on arrival. In most, if not all, of these school shootings, the shooting has ended before the police arrive. There would be no reason for the teacher to have a gun in hand in most cases. THE "Armed teachers being misidentified as bad guys can be greatly minimized by color of the day and other simple procedures. Not nearly the problem it is described as by the opponents. Volunteer armed people are not going to protect schools. It will require a real program with intensive training. In the Missouri armed teachers program, the specially trained and armed teachers each have a security sash they deploy if they need to spring into action. Daisy kneels and scans for targets. To her left, Tiger stands and does the same. While pointing their guns downrange, the women use their left hands to undo the Velcro pouch that houses a neon yellow security sash, which they’ll carry in secret every day at school on their concealed belts or holsters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molly B. Posted February 23, 2018 at 12:11 AM Author Share Posted February 23, 2018 at 12:11 AM When Mr.B and I attended the FASTER Saves Lives training in Ohio last year, identification of the armed teacher is part of the training and I would say most schools work closely with law enforcement in working all those details out ahead of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundguy Posted February 23, 2018 at 12:58 AM Share Posted February 23, 2018 at 12:58 AM On CBS News tonight there was a nice piece on teachers carrying in Colorado schools.They also took the Faster Saves Lives training. Transcript "Arming Teachers" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vito Posted February 23, 2018 at 04:00 PM Share Posted February 23, 2018 at 04:00 PM I wonder what the impact of speaking out will have on the career of any teacher willing to speak out in support of arming teachers. Just admitting that you are a member of the NRA might be enough to end a career. I am retired now, but worked for many years in a large Catholic health care corporation. I was a senior executive within one of the corporate entities and had a terrific boss as President of this part of the big company. When she was talking about retiring I was told by a Board member that I shouldn't even think about applying for the top job because my stand on guns, and being an NRA member, was well known to members of the Board and that this fact would disqualify me. This is the world we live in. I decided to retire first so it never actually did me any harm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xwing Posted February 23, 2018 at 05:34 PM Share Posted February 23, 2018 at 05:34 PM On CBS News tonight there was a nice piece on teachers carrying in Colorado schools.They also took the Faster Saves Lives training. Transcript "Arming Teachers" This is something Colorado is doing right. It's the one thing that would be best poised to stop or diminish an event like what happened in Florida. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSD Posted February 23, 2018 at 06:29 PM Share Posted February 23, 2018 at 06:29 PM One teacher I know said the only reason he is opposed to teacher carry is that most teachers he knows react very badly in emergency situations. In a fight, flight or freeze scenario they freeze and then just go to jello running around and tripping over each other, literally and figuratively. I pointed out that is why you have training and qualification. He didn't buy it just kept saying their beyond help. He is a pro 2nd guy generally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallbore Posted February 23, 2018 at 07:03 PM Share Posted February 23, 2018 at 07:03 PM It seems the liberal argument is all or nothing. All teachers are to be armed even those who can not handle it. No teacher should be armed even though clarified.I support freedom for the individual teacher to choose.I do not buy tha argument that police can not identify a good teacher from an active shooter. This is an old anti-ccw ploy that is not supported by real life events.Individual freedom to defend ones self is the only answer. One does not need nija training to be safe and sussessful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE KING Posted February 23, 2018 at 09:01 PM Share Posted February 23, 2018 at 09:01 PM It seems the liberal argument is all or nothing. All teachers are to be armed even those who can not handle it. No teacher should be armed even though clarified.I support freedom for the individual teacher to choose.I do not buy tha argument that police can not identify a good teacher from an active shooter. This is an old anti-ccw ploy that is not supported by real life events.Individual freedom to defend ones self is the only answer. One does not need nija training to be safe and sussessful.Very well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoke33 Posted February 23, 2018 at 10:22 PM Share Posted February 23, 2018 at 10:22 PM As a teacher the most frustrating thing for me is when a teacher gets interviewed and uses the word “we”. “We” are against having teachers carry guns etc. You don’t speak for me so don’t say “we”. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherryriver Posted February 24, 2018 at 02:00 AM Share Posted February 24, 2018 at 02:00 AM A point to consider in this argument is the proven facts of the way Israel has dealt with its (much worse) school mass murder issue: it arms the teachers as well.The success of this is reflected in the lack of news: schoolchildren in Israel are no longer in the danger they once were.While not an exact fit and comparison, it holds much truth for our conditions here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSD Posted February 24, 2018 at 02:53 AM Share Posted February 24, 2018 at 02:53 AM A point to consider in this argument is the proven facts of the way Israel has dealt with its (much worse) school mass murder issue: it arms the teachers as well.The success of this is reflected in the lack of news: schoolchildren in Israel are no longer in the danger they once were.While not an exact fit and comparison, it holds much truth for our conditions here. Has anyone verified that Israel arms teachers? I have heard this in many places. However, family and friends who live in Israel claim it is untrue and that private ownership or use of guns is strictly regulated and very rare. Just wondering, because if it is true, it is a great model to point to (just like the anti's try to point to Australia). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InterestedBystander Posted February 24, 2018 at 03:49 AM Share Posted February 24, 2018 at 03:49 AM Cant speak to article accuracy... By Ruth Eglash | Washington Post JERUSALEM When students, parents and teachers pleaded with President Donald Trump this week to act against school shootings, they cited Israel, a place where guns are a familiar sight but where school shootings are virtually unheard of. During a meeting at the White House on Wednesday, one parent correctly noted, for instance, that it is difficult for outsiders to enter an Israeli school. Most schools maintain only one unlocked entrance that is typically staffed by an armed guard. But the schools have escaped American-style violence in large part because of measures to confront Israels unique security challenge and not because of efforts to deter troubled youths and lone madmen. The guards are there for other reasons, mainly terrorism, said Amos Shavit, spokesman for the Ministry of Education. He said the guards stationed at schools are under the authority of the police. In large cities, he said, the police and the local authority carry out security patrols around the educational institutions throughout the school day. There are no metal detectors or special door locks on classrooms. And, by policy, teachers are not armed. Professionals deal with the security, Shavit said. Not the teachers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vito Posted February 24, 2018 at 01:41 PM Share Posted February 24, 2018 at 01:41 PM I think the distinguishing factor in Israel is whether we are talking about schools in Israel proper, or in the West Bank. Teachers routinely carry fully automatic weapons at schools in the settlements on what was formerly called the West Bank. While the securing of these schools was aimed at the risk of a terrorist attack rather than a crazed local, the reality that these schools have armed and prepared teachers and staff has proved to be an effective deterrent and would likely achieve the same effect here in the U.S. While Israel has a history of very strict control on civilian owned firearms, in recent years the rules have been relaxed to permit off duty military, former military and others to carry military grade weapons and in fact most "lone wolf" terrorist attacks are stopped by armed civilians at the scene rather than later by police. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dumpnpump Posted February 24, 2018 at 02:37 PM Share Posted February 24, 2018 at 02:37 PM I have a photo in my computer, regrettably I am unable to download to this forum, of an Israeli school teacher on an outing with her class. She has slung over her right shoulder a long rifle. Seems to work for the Jews, should work for us too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherryriver Posted February 25, 2018 at 05:52 PM Share Posted February 25, 2018 at 05:52 PM I don't have linked facts on the Israel part- I am relying on other reports I take to be credible. It does seem the West Bank distinction could be the true story. Running on memory is as I did is not always wise.To another point about teachers and guns:We operate a busy firearms training outfit with my (female) partner as lead instructor. As such, we get a lot more women proportionally than most other groups.Perhaps that's why we also attract a lot of attention (and business) from teachers, who nowadays are overwhelmingly female.We have actually had a good number of private Intro classes with teacher groups, and almost every time, we are asked to keep the class non-public; secret, in other words, for fear of retribution from the participants' supervisors.One large group actually told us that they'd be fired if their superintendent found out. We've also had numerous requests from regular Intro students for no photos so that they could not be identified. Again, for fear of being fired. Good heavens.I am pleased to say this fear of retribution has diminished quite a bit in the last few years, though.Much of my father's side of my family is in education, including a former Northwestern professor. I'm well familiar with the leanings and culture that makes teachers reluctant to speak out in any favorable way about firearms whatsoever.This culture will make it hard to secure the assistance of teachers for pro-gun things, but, thanks to the cultural shift as the result of 9/11 and on to the Trump days, it won't be absolutely impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molly B. Posted February 25, 2018 at 11:21 PM Author Share Posted February 25, 2018 at 11:21 PM We believe teachers will feel freer to speak up if their school board is in support of teacher/staff carrying. That's why we are leading the way with the school board resolution to support arming teachers and staff. When school boards pass the resolution and send it to their state association - that sends a strong message that they want their association to get behind this and adopt it a legislative issue. By passing it and sending it to their legislators - they are sending a strong message that they want the General Assembly to support it also. The amazing thing is that the school boards are coming to us and wanting our support on this issue. More info here:http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=67927 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soylentgreen Posted February 26, 2018 at 06:33 PM Share Posted February 26, 2018 at 06:33 PM It seems the liberal argument is all or nothing. All teachers are to be armed even those who can not handle it. No teacher should be armed even though clarified.I support freedom for the individual teacher to choose.I do not buy tha argument that police can not identify a good teacher from an active shooter. This is an old anti-ccw ploy that is not supported by real life events.Individual freedom to defend ones self is the only answer. One does not need nija training to be safe and sussessful. Exactly. Only teachers who are sufficiently interested in being armed should go through the training and get certified. Personally, I think just removing the signs from the schools would be sufficient. If a teacher wants to get his or her CCL (or already has one) on their own time with their own money and buy their own gun, they should be allowed to. No one needs to know which teachers are carrying and none of them should need permission from the administration of the school. Concealed means concealed. Keep it under wraps. I don't know about other states, but, I feel the required training for a CCL is sufficient for teachers to understand the responsibility they're undertaking. As for me...if I were a teacher, I'd be 100% okay with the chance that the police might mistake me for an active shooter. I'm okay with it now. If I'm in a public place and there's a terrorist attack or some other emergency where I need to use a gun, there is a risk I will be shot by police. That is part of the business of carrying a gun. I can only hope that the officer who pulls the trigger on me will not go through his life with guilt. I would never hold it against him. The situation is chaos. Mistakes are bound to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euler Posted February 26, 2018 at 07:51 PM Share Posted February 26, 2018 at 07:51 PM ... No one needs to know which teachers are carrying ...The kids will know. Then some of them will tell their parents. Then some of them will tell their neighbors. Then everyone will know, including all the potential attackers. I'm not saying it's necessarily a bad thing, but I don't think expecting knowledge of which teachers are carrying to remain secret is realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fxdpntc Posted February 26, 2018 at 08:11 PM Share Posted February 26, 2018 at 08:11 PM Texas School Marshal Law Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vito Posted February 26, 2018 at 11:44 PM Share Posted February 26, 2018 at 11:44 PM Teachers have even more reason than the average concealed carrier to keep the information to themselves for just the reason mentioned by Euler. I think even a teacher who is prone to bragging or showing off would realize that if the fact that they are one of the teachers in that school that carries a gun it would mark them as a target, not only for a school shooter, but for any student miscreant who thinks that the teacher might be an easy source of a gun for themselves. Since most teachers are female, I think the mode of carry would be a concern. The woman who carries in their purse could prove disastrous for a teacher who leaves her purse in a typically unlocked desk drawer. I teacher who agrees to carry might reconsider when they realize that they would have to dress differently than they might otherwise do so as to keep a concealed gun on a belt or underneath their clothing with something like a Smart Carry holster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRJ Posted February 27, 2018 at 01:28 AM Share Posted February 27, 2018 at 01:28 AM Teachers have even more reason than the average concealed carrier to keep the information to themselves for just the reason mentioned by Euler. I think even a teacher who is prone to bragging or showing off would realize that if the fact that they are one of the teachers in that school that carries a gun it would mark them as a target, not only for a school shooter, but for any student miscreant who thinks that the teacher might be an easy source of a gun for themselves. Since most teachers are female, I think the mode of carry would be a concern. The woman who carries in their purse could prove disastrous for a teacher who leaves her purse in a typically unlocked desk drawer. I teacher who agrees to carry might reconsider when they realize that they would have to dress differently than they might otherwise do so as to keep a concealed gun on a belt or underneath their clothing with something like a Smart Carry holster. This goes right back to a comment I made earlier that installing wall mounted biometric safes that the entire security team could access would solve the dress around your gun problem as well as a number of others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet Observer Posted February 27, 2018 at 01:59 AM Share Posted February 27, 2018 at 01:59 AM Since most teachers are female, I think the mode of carry would be a concern. The woman who carries in their purse could prove disastrous for a teacher who leaves her purse in a typically unlocked desk drawer. I teacher who agrees to carry might reconsider when they realize that they would have to dress differently than they might otherwise do so as to keep a concealed gun on a belt or underneath their clothing with something like a Smart Carry holster. I doubt that every female detective only carries in a purse. I have a female friend at church who CCs every day with her gun concealed in her clothing. There are probably several male former concealed carriers who stopped carrying because it was "uncomfortable" or "too much trouble". No one has said every teacher must carry. It would be strictly voluntary. At least the option should be available, as it already is in a few states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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