Xwing Posted February 12, 2018 at 03:36 PM Share Posted February 12, 2018 at 03:36 PM The law also doesn't prohibit the instructor from making his students shoot while standing on one foot with a chicken on their head. Don't say that out loud. This will be in the draft of the next version of the CCW law... And this is all correct. Instructors may have good (e.g. no magnums b/c the range backstop isn't certified for them) or bad (e.g. no .22 b/c he doesn't like them) reasons for adding additional rules. They aren't illegal, but may persuade people to use a different instructor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangrel Posted February 12, 2018 at 04:33 PM Share Posted February 12, 2018 at 04:33 PM Different instructors have different rules on how they run a class. Some don't allow head shots. Some ask you to space your shots so they can be counted instead of making one jagged hole in the middle. The ones that don't allow head shots are confused or frustrated about the multiple versions of the rules published by the state. The ones who ask their students to spread their shots around the target so they can count 30 individual holes don't grasp the concept of how to score a target. As for the original question, there is nothing in the law that states what calibers can or can't be used, but there is also nothing in the law that prohibits an instructor from making such restrictions for his or her own reasons. Some instructors want students to only use a caliber appropriate for self defense. Some see this also as a liability issue. I can't fault them for that view, they are the ones that would be on the hook if they're right. Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk On some ranges, head shots risk shooting into the overhead baffles, hence the restriction on head shots.Good point. Quite true. Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangrel Posted February 12, 2018 at 04:38 PM Share Posted February 12, 2018 at 04:38 PM The law also doesn't prohibit the instructor from making his students shoot while standing on one foot with a chicken on their head. Don't say that out loud. This will be in the draft of the next version of the CCW law... And this is all correct. Instructors may have good (e.g. no magnums b/c the range backstop isn't certified for them) or bad (e.g. no .22 b/c he doesn't like them) reasons for adding additional rules. They aren't illegal, but may persuade people to use a different instructor.This isn't my rule, but there is merit to requiring students to shoot with a caliber that would be a viable option for self-defense, if for no other reason than to build confidence in the student that they can handle such a caliber. There is more to this than "b/c he doesn't like them."Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundguy Posted February 12, 2018 at 04:42 PM Share Posted February 12, 2018 at 04:42 PM The law also doesn't prohibit the instructor from making his students shoot while standing on one foot with a chicken on their head. Don't say that out loud. This will be in the draft of the next version of the CCW law... And this is all correct. Instructors may have good (e.g. no magnums b/c the range backstop isn't certified for them) or bad (e.g. no .22 b/c he doesn't like them) reasons for adding additional rules. They aren't illegal, but may persuade people to use a different instructor.This isn't my rule, but there is merit to requiring students to shoot with a caliber that would be a viable option for self-defense, if for no other reason than to build confidence in the student that they can handle such a caliber. There is more to this than "b/c he doesn't like them." Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk What if the student intends to carry something in .22? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangrel Posted February 12, 2018 at 05:40 PM Share Posted February 12, 2018 at 05:40 PM The law also doesn't prohibit the instructor from making his students shoot while standing on one foot with a chicken on their head. Don't say that out loud. This will be in the draft of the next version of the CCW law... And this is all correct. Instructors may have good (e.g. no magnums b/c the range backstop isn't certified for them) or bad (e.g. no .22 b/c he doesn't like them) reasons for adding additional rules. They aren't illegal, but may persuade people to use a different instructor. This isn't my rule, but there is merit to requiring students to shoot with a caliber that would be a viable option for self-defense, if for no other reason than to build confidence in the student that they can handle such a caliber. There is more to this than "b/c he doesn't like them." Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk What if the student intends to carry something in .22?I would do what I do with my students anyways: advise him or her that a 22lr is a poor choice for a self-defense round and recommend that he or she carry something with better stopping power. While I personally would not prohibit the student from shooting qual with a 22, I would strongly encourage him or her to use one of my own 9mm pistols as well, and spend extra time on the range getting him or her comfortable shooting it. But another instructor would be well within his or her right to require students to qualify with a larger caliber. Not my approach, but not wrong either. Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xwing Posted February 14, 2018 at 04:39 PM Share Posted February 14, 2018 at 04:39 PM The law also doesn't prohibit the instructor from making his students shoot while standing on one foot with a chicken on their head. Don't say that out loud. This will be in the draft of the next version of the CCW law... And this is all correct. Instructors may have good (e.g. no magnums b/c the range backstop isn't certified for them) or bad (e.g. no .22 b/c he doesn't like them) reasons for adding additional rules. They aren't illegal, but may persuade people to use a different instructor.This isn't my rule, but there is merit to requiring students to shoot with a caliber that would be a viable option for self-defense, if for no other reason than to build confidence in the student that they can handle such a caliber. There is more to this than "b/c he doesn't like them." Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk True, I was painting a bit with a "broad brush". But while a knowledge instructor's opinion on caliber is valuable input for a student, it is still the student (CCW licensee) who best determines what he or she should carry. IMO, any safe round is a valid choice for self defense. Certainly some are much better than others. But if an individual only felt comfortable carrying .22LR (for whatever reason, good or bad), it is still better to carry a sub-optimal round than to not carry at all. While it would not personally be on my choice of carry calibers, I also wouldn't volunteer to be shot by .22. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deno56 Posted February 14, 2018 at 11:13 PM Share Posted February 14, 2018 at 11:13 PM when we lived in IL my wife used a .22 to take the range test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangrel Posted February 15, 2018 at 12:10 AM Share Posted February 15, 2018 at 12:10 AM The law also doesn't prohibit the instructor from making his students shoot while standing on one foot with a chicken on their head. Don't say that out loud. This will be in the draft of the next version of the CCW law... And this is all correct. Instructors may have good (e.g. no magnums b/c the range backstop isn't certified for them) or bad (e.g. no .22 b/c he doesn't like them) reasons for adding additional rules. They aren't illegal, but may persuade people to use a different instructor. This isn't my rule, but there is merit to requiring students to shoot with a caliber that would be a viable option for self-defense, if for no other reason than to build confidence in the student that they can handle such a caliber. There is more to this than "b/c he doesn't like them." Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk True, I was painting a bit with a "broad brush". But while a knowledge instructor's opinion on caliber is valuable input for a student, it is still the student (CCW licensee) who best determines what he or she should carry. IMO, any safe round is a valid choice for self defense. Certainly some are much better than others. But if an individual only felt comfortable carrying .22LR (for whatever reason, good or bad), it is still better to carry a sub-optimal round than to not carry at all. While it would not personally be on my choice of carry calibers, I also wouldn't volunteer to be shot by .22. I wouldn't want to be shot with a 17HMR. A 22lr most certainly can be lethal. The problem is the likelihood that the shot offender won't find out he's dead until he is already fleeing the scene, after the crime has already been committed. 22s have a nasty habit of not slowing a peep down until well after the fact. Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundguy Posted February 15, 2018 at 12:31 AM Share Posted February 15, 2018 at 12:31 AM Every so often I toy with the thought of carrying the NAA 5 shot .22/.22 mag revolver.It would probably get lost in my pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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