ABC News: NRA Targets Bump Fire Stocks

[MrTriple]

 

 

I understand the don't negotiate and don't give an inch strategy, but in this case the people who need to be satisfied are not the politicians. It's the general public. And it's become politically very important to give them the sacrifice they demand so that we can go on business as usual once the dog and pony show is over. The republicans need to address this (particularly since they can't seem to do anything else they said they would do) because if it's not addressed it will become a huge issue in 2018...campaigning is already beginning. The republicans need to be ale to say they addressed this quickly and turn the narrative to their favor.

 

I'm pretty sure NRA and politicians were talking about this before any announcements were made, and the fact is something has to go.

But here's the huge, huge downside: the more we give them, the more power they gain back. They've lost a lot, they're shaky, so don't give them a leg up, push them over.

Because if they feel empowered again, they'll rapidly ratchet things up big time. We need them to waste their political capital on something useless like this.

We don't win by placating the gun control movement and a bunch of ignorant asswipe voters.

Here's the thing. Notice the talking point that surfaced today? Obama's ATF approved these. Republicans concerned with law and order can close the loophole Obama created. We can fix his negligent oversight that allowed a mass shooter to simulate machine gun fire with an otherwise normal sporting rifle. We can fix the mess they made...so we aren't giving them anything, technically, and it's our win, not theirs.

I know, mental gymnastics...but optics matter.

Yes, but it's also vital to knock the gun control movement down a few more notches as well.

[TRJ]

I don't support any of this, but I am also well aware of how things get done politically. We can openly talk about righting a wrong with bumpstocks so we don't have to talk about guns. Next week they want to introduce immigration reform and budget stuff. They need to quickly fix this bump in the road and move on.

[cls74]

It's a double edged sword.

 

Look at IL's new AWB bill, how many variants of guns/accessories will it make illegal if it were to pass? All because of the subject most discussed of bumpfire stocks.

 

Most gun owners would not care if it was announced manufacturers would cease to make these and no one else picked them up. I haven't read anywhere where people were banding together to protect these. Most say, meh, they waste ammo, money and are cool once.

 

Imagine what a federal bill will look like compared to the IL bill. Most gun owners truly don't care about the stocks or if they're banned or not. Lawmakers will use that to no end amd tack extras on.

 

At least by allowing the ATF to make the decision extras are not tacked on and the main talking point is ruled null and void.

[357]

I understand the don't negotiate and don't give an inch strategy, but in this case the people who need to be satisfied are not the politicians. It's the general public. And it's become politically very important to give them the sacrifice they demand so that we can go on business as usual once the dog and pony show is over. The republicans need to address this (particularly since they can't seem to do anything else they said they would do) because if it's not addressed it will become a huge issue in 2018...campaigning is already beginning. The republicans need to be ale to say they addressed this quickly and turn the narrative to their favor.

 

I'm pretty sure NRA and politicians were talking about this before any announcements were made, and the fact is something has to go.

 

What will have to go next time there is a shooting to give them the sacrifice they demand?

[transplant]

All of the arguments in favor of throwing bump stocks to the wolves are probably all the same arguments made to allow the 1933 NFA and 1986 garbage.

 

"It's only X, let's throw X out of the sleigh to placate the pursuing wolves."

 

And the frog in the bottom of the pot gets a wee bit hotter.

[FarmHand357]

While I'm not excited about banning bump stocks, I see the political advantage.

 

We offer up this sacrificial lamb to ward off more extreme measures.

 

Next time someone nefarious uses one during a similar incident, we can say "hey, we already banned them, no further action necessary."

 

Next time someone nefarious uses a semiauto rifle, sans bump stock, we can say "hey, as we've seen, it could've been a lot worse; no further action necessary."

[Mustang31]

No thank you. They keep eating the cake and we keep feeding them. It's has to stop. What's the next slice? Mags over ten rounds? Semi autos? One gun per year? Registration?

 

 

[tkroenlein]

Why the outrage..oh thats right many were consumed with lincon logs in 94 when the nra sold us out then..

Right on.

[tkroenlein]

You'll note that all the other days of the year when there aren't any mass shootings, Bloomberg, Feinstein, and the "policy centers" aren't sitting around telling themselves how reasonable it would be ease up on some regulations since there is no evidence to support those regulations.

 

 

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[snooter]

No compromise....f the nra..but i expected nothing less from them...

[RandyP]

The general gun-uneducated public views ALL full auto firearms with hatred, fear and scorn. They do not view the acknowledged effort to flout the machine gun laws aka slide-fire/bump-fire stocks with approval either.

 

The NRA has rightly (and politically shrewdly) called upon BATF to 'look into' the legality of these flouting devices with an eye to possible future regulations concerning them. IMHO the NRA has correctly assessed the current public sentiment and climate and positioned themselves on the favorable side of this debate. They (and 'they' are US) can't be blamed for being 'proponents' of what the public views as killing machines when it's the NRA that quickly called for this investigation into their legality.

 

Trying to take a stand that 'favors and supports' the automatic fire slide stocks after Vegas would be political suicide. And guns and their 'control' IS political.

 

All MY opinion, yours can and should vary. We can always agree to disagree without becoming disagreeable towards one another.

[tkroenlein]

Here's why it's wrong to throw this dog a bone. A slide fire or bump fire stock, or a "bump stock" as it's come to be known, is a firearm novelty. Can the bangs go faster? Sure. Does it make killing more efficient when used in an unlawful manner? Maybe? Doesn't the gun jumping around preclude accurate, aimed fire? Didn't our murderous shooter engage the crowd from about 300 yards? Hasn't our own military discovered that unregulated full auto fire in personal weapons is more inefficient at neutralizing combatants?

 

Is there a fact based reason to actually support regulating jerk o matic stocks? I haven't seen it. We have only just a knee jerk reaction to the tragic loss of life. Tragic. The grabbers are using this to snowball negative public perception of all things gun and all people pro gun. We're giving up the hill before the enemy even gets out of the truck. If there's a case to be made for restrictions, let them make it. Don't give away ground based on feelings.

 

 

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[Glock23]

Here's why it's wrong to throw this dog a bone. A slide fire or bump fire stock, or a "bump stock" as it's come to be known, is a firearm novelty. Can the bangs go faster? Sure. Does it make killing more efficient when used in an unlawful manner? Maybe? Doesn't the gun jumping around preclude accurate, aimed fire? Didn't our murderous shooter engage the crowd from about 300 yards? Hasn't our own military discovered that unregulated full auto fire in personal weapons is more inefficient at neutralizing combatants?

Is there a fact based reason to actually support regulating jerk o matic stocks? I haven't seen it. We have only just a knee jerk reaction to the tragic loss of life. Tragic. The grabbers are using this to snowball negative public perception of all things gun and all people pro gun. We're giving up the hill before the enemy even gets out of the truck. If there's a case to be made for restrictions, let them make it. Don't give away ground based on feelings.

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I can see the logic behind it, though.

 

One of our primary arguments against the "assault rifle" terminology is that our rifles are semi-automatic... one pull of the trigger, one round fired.

 

Physics of the bump stocks aside, these do essentially allow you to shoot fully automatic fire from a semi-automatic firearm.

 

I say let them have it, but give us something in return.

[snooter]

 

Here's why it's wrong to throw this dog a bone. A slide fire or bump fire stock, or a "bump stock" as it's come to be known, is a firearm novelty. Can the bangs go faster? Sure. Does it make killing more efficient when used in an unlawful manner? Maybe? Doesn't the gun jumping around preclude accurate, aimed fire? Didn't our murderous shooter engage the crowd from about 300 yards? Hasn't our own military discovered that unregulated full auto fire in personal weapons is more inefficient at neutralizing combatants?

Is there a fact based reason to actually support regulating jerk o matic stocks? I haven't seen it. We have only just a knee jerk reaction to the tragic loss of life. Tragic. The grabbers are using this to snowball negative public perception of all things gun and all people pro gun. We're giving up the hill before the enemy even gets out of the truck. If there's a case to be made for restrictions, let them make it. Don't give away ground based on feelings.

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I can see the logic behind it, though.

 

One of our primary arguments against the "assault rifle" terminology is that our rifles are semi-automatic... one pull of the trigger, one round fired.

 

Physics of the bump stocks aside, these do essentially allow you to shoot fully automatic fire from a semi-automatic firearm.

 

I say let them have it, but give us something in return.

Uh no...they do not change the cycle rate..you really think you can trust that devil on the other side??...i do not...no compromise

[Glock23]

Note where I said physics of the device aside.

 

I'm fully aware that it's still one round per trigger pull...

 

But to honestly claim their argument is total BS is the equivalent of believing that devices like the Sig brace aren't being bought by the VAST majority to simulate an SBR without the stamp.

 

[HeavyDuty]

One of the reasons I don’t own a SIG brace. I believe in following the spirit of the law.

[markthesignguy]

"looking into" consumes time - let the media crow. Things cool down, legal language doesn't change, and if batfe reverses itself on this accessory, they are vulnerable to lawsuits.

 

It buys time, heads off the stampede. Use the lull to get NR and SHARE.

[yurimodin]

No thank you. They keep eating the cake and we keep feeding them. It's has to stop. What's the next slice? Mags over ten rounds? Semi autos? One gun per year? Registration?

 

tbh I think we will be lucky to come out the other side of this without those restrictions

[GTX63]

There is no giving up something firearm related and "getting something" in return. It won't happen. This is a blood in the water frenzy that the left is trying to stir up.

 

Most here know you can make your own version of a bump stock or a bump mechanism at home with basic tools, materials and beer and a few hours or less. Paddock can't buy one he would do the same thing any criminal does.

 

The words "regulate" or "ban" almost always thru cause and effect equal black market and who is the customer demographic for the black market?

[Chief Illiniwek]

GunBroker has now made the decision to no longer allow bump stocks, and similar, to be sold on the site. They have an announcement up asking for all current listings to be taken down and expired listings not be relisted.

[SiliconSorcerer]

GunBroker has now made the decision to no longer allow bump stocks, and similar, to be sold on the site. They have an announcement up asking for all current listings to be taken down and expired listings not be relisted.

 

I actually think that's kind of BS it's like convicting someone before there's a trial...

 

BUT have the ATF re-evaluate if this fits the definition or cleaning up the language I don't think it's giving in to spit. It make a firearm fire in an automatic fashion and spinning electronic trigger does this as well.

[Chief Illiniwek]

 

GunBroker has now made the decision to no longer allow bump stocks, and similar, to be sold on the site. They have an announcement up asking for all current listings to be taken down and expired listings not be relisted.

 

I actually think that's kind of BS it's like convicting someone before there's a trial...

 

BUT have the ATF re-evaluate if this fits the definition or cleaning up the language I don't think it's giving in to spit. It make a firearm fire in an automatic fashion and spinning electronic trigger does this as well.

 

 

i don't disagree.

[gearsmithy]

Today bumpfire stocks. Tomorrow, pistol braces. Next week, ARs. Next year, all semi-autos.

[smokehouse]

Today bumpfire stocks. Tomorrow, pistol braces. Next week, ARs. Next year, all semi-autos.

 

I think it will be more like "Today bumpfire stocks, with a sub clause addressing pistol braces and all "trigger modifications...and a sprinkling of magazine cap"

 

There is no way in heck that Dems are going to push a single focused bill based on one item...no, no,no, they're going to swing for the fences on this one.

[soylentgreen]

You know...this whole incident probably kills the chance of getting national reciprocity or the hearing protection act. Once again, Republicans and the NRA fail to act when the iron is hot.

Remember the first day of the new congress? What did Republicans do? They tried to dissolve the ethics board. Instead, they should have been advancing our agenda. If gun owners stopped voting for Republicans, they are FINISHED. Name another Republican issue-based constituency that has as many votes. I'll just be sitting here waiting...

[Xwing]

That didnt take long. As in all other compromises, they'll get these bump stocks and we'll get nothing. Ryan don't want reciprocity anyway sans this latest act of lunacy.

 

Yep, that's my fear as well. The anti's will politicize this tragedy to the point where normally pro-gun organizations and legislators will cave. We're seeing it already.

[Capt_Destro]

Easier to make it look like the NRA is "doing something" immediately to stall Leftists and that Zombie Feinstein. This may appease the people who are having knee jerk reactions. It may take years to complete a study with Trump's ATF. If anything it takes the wind out of the libs sails. If you read into the bill DF wants to ban more than bump fire stocks. Leftists have a habit of throwing a bunch of crap at a wall to see what sticks.

 

The one thing that helps after these incidents is time. Time calms people down and makes them think rationally.

 

Also Republicans will be damned if they do, damned if they don't in regards to voting any upcoming bills. Having the ATF handle it may save them face.

Though it does set a really dangerous precedent if they end up reinterpreting things such as Rifle Caliber Pistols/Shotguns Classified as Firearms/Pistol Braces/"Armor Piercing Ammunition", Etc.

 

In a sense it is a strategic move, but it still feels like being stabbed in the back to some people. Compromise means getting something out of a sacrifice, I don't see this as a compromise.

[howie]

Reports I've seen and heard said the nut had full auto and semi-auto arms fitted with bump stocks. Do we know for sure he even used any of the rifles equipped with bump stocks? Or was it just the full auto rifles he used? Comparing bump stocks to other firearms accessories is apples and oranges, IMHO. We've seen the proposed assault weapons ban so many times we've got it pretty much memorized. Pistol grips, flash hiders, detachable mags, barrel shrouds, bayonet lugs....none of which have anything at all with the rate of fire of the rifles they are attached to. We can't say that about bump stocks. They DO change the effective rate of fire, and if, in fact, the turd out west used a bump fire stock, we're gonna have a really hard time defending that particular item.

 

I don't like compromising on any of this stuff, and for full disclosure I'm a patron NRA member. Given the circumstances of what we think happened out west I think it's gonna be very damaging to our cause to try to defend those stocks.

[RandyP]

No harm comes from following the 'spirit' of a law. There seem to always be 'that' group of folks who just HAVE to push the boundaries and stretch them to the breaking point of reason. IMHO one such bunch created the slide-fire/bump-fire devices to thumb their collective noses at the BATF and full auto firearm regs. Once a maniac acquired them however, the joke ceased being funny and the relatively useless devices WILL pay the price along with any groups or individuals who attempt to support them.

[snooter]

I dont own any of those pos bump stocks...but some of you are a gestapo wet dream...how many jews would you have turned in cause you felt the spirit of the nurenberg laws was not being followed cause old lady johnson was hiding jews in her cellar...