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FOID Failure Aurora.


mab22

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As far as I understand, there was also a domestic order of protection issued against him just over a year before the FOID was applied for - in Aurora. And another one a few years before that - also locally. Shouldn’t that have been caught by the FOID background check - and the FOID never issued? Everyone is focusing on the Felony conviction (which is Federal Law) - but the orders of protection should have been a disqualified as well. The system clearly failed us here. In my case, one of the victims is a neighbor. As a gun owner, I’m disgusted that this guy slipped thru and that the State failed us.

Felony - disqualifier

Domestic violence - disqualifier

Order of Protection - disqualifier

 

Democrats have no one but themselves to blame, the "fix nics" bill that they killed was intended to correct these issues as well as the former Air Force shooter guy.

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Was the order of protection active, when he applied?

If the background for the foid was run thru NICS, would the felony have shown? (was NICS used?)

We should be careful where we get our info.

 

News reports are not always accurate.

 

 

Bay Area Fox affiliate KTVU purportedly learned the names of the flight crew of Asiana flight 214,

which crashed last Saturday at San Francisco International Airport, killing two.

These—"Sum Ting Wong," "Wi Tu Lo," "Ho Lee Fuk," and "Bang Ding Ow"

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This is the timeline put out by the Aurora Police Department (https://www.facebook.com/AuroraILPolice/posts/2083019915097078). I trust this far more than what the media picks and chooses to publish.

 

I was wrong - it was closer to 10 years prior for the order of protection violation. Still - my point remains - and I've NOT seen this in the media so far...

 

August 3, 1995 Felony conviction for Aggravated Assault out of Mississippi

We don't know when he moved to Aurora... sometime after getting out of jail and 2003...

2003-ish the shooter goes thru an employment background check - that fails to find any issues in his past and he starts working for Henry Pratt (per company press release)

Between moving to aurora and thru 2008 - Five non-specified arrests by the Aurora Police Department, including arrests for traffic and domestic violence related issues

Last (sixth) arrest in Aurora in 2008 for violating an order of protection

January, 2014 the shooter was issued an Illinois Firearm Owner’s Identification (FOID) Card

March 6, 2014, the shooter applied to purchase a handgun from a local gun dealer in Aurora

March 11, 2014, the shooter took possession of a Smith and Wesson 40 caliber handgun from that same local dealer

March 16, 2014, the shooter applied for a concealed carry permit

Last arrest in 2017 by the Oswego, Illinois Police Department for Disorderly Conduct and Criminal Damage to Property

 

There were no details published for any arrests by any other agencies...

 

The order of protection violation happened 10 years prior to the FOID application. But having being arrested for violating it - why were charges not filed?

 

When he was arrested in 2017 by the Oswego Police - why did THEY not realize that the revoked FOID card had not been returned? *THAT* should have triggered a warrant to search for the FOID card and any weapons... or at LEAST following up on the ISP background check from 2014 and asking the dealer if a transfer took place, giving probable cause for a weapons violation charge at that point

 

There is certainly an argument here for employers to repeat background checks periodically....

 

I truly don't understand why the multiple domestic violence issues, the order of protection and then the arrest for violating the order of protection didn't raise some kind of red flag on the FOID application verification.

 

This is an epic failure of the FOID system

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Also - media keeps pointing to NICS - and asking why the Felony conviction did not show up on the gun purchase background check in 2014... or even the FOID application background check also in 2014.....

 

Is it not the case that Illinois doesn't use NICS - but rather does it's own thing?

 

Could it be the felony conviction IS actually in NICS - but the ISP did not, in fact, check NICS for the gun purchase or the FOID application?

 

If so - another epic fail of the Illinois system.

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I would say these are people with felony convictions who passed the 10 yr or 20 yr period with a clean record and petitioned the court for restoration of firearm rights.

 

That makes sense - but what's the point if you remain Federally prohibited? Sure - you cannot buy a gun - but mere possession is still a Felony...

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I would say these are people with felony convictions who passed the 10 yr or 20 yr period with a clean record and petitioned the court for restoration of firearm rights.

 

That makes sense - but what's the point if you remain Federally prohibited? Sure - you cannot buy a gun - but mere possession is still a Felony...

 

 

The law was changed in 2013. Prior to then the appeal process stated a FOID could be issued if it did not violate state law. In 2013 the wording was changed to "state or federal law".

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I would say these are people with felony convictions who passed the 10 yr or 20 yr period with a clean record and petitioned the court for restoration of firearm rights.

 

That makes sense - but what's the point if you remain Federally prohibited? Sure - you cannot buy a gun - but mere possession is still a Felony...

 

 

The law was changed in 2013. Prior to then the appeal process stated a FOID could be issued if it did not violate state law. In 2013 the wording was changed to "state or federal law".

 

 

Ahh - OK. Thank you! So the legislature did act to fix this issue...

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Also - media keeps pointing to NICS - and asking why the Felony conviction did not show up on the gun purchase background check in 2014... or even the FOID application background check also in 2014.....

 

Is it not the case that Illinois doesn't use NICS - but rather does it's own thing?

 

Could it be the felony conviction IS actually in NICS - but the ISP did not, in fact, check NICS for the gun purchase or the FOID application?

 

If so - another epic fail of the Illinois system.

Illinois is a full POC for the Federal NICS check. So I would say the state failed there. The way I read it is that the FFL dealer in Illinois runs all his or her checks through the state.

 

This is from the FBI's website on the NICS system: https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/nics/about-nics

 

 

NICS Background Checks

The FFLs have the following three methods of performing background checks depending upon the state in which the FFL is conducting business:

1. In states where the state government has agreed to serve as the POC for the system, the FFLs contact the NICS through the state POC for all firearm transfers. The state POC conducts the NICS check and determines whether or not the transfer would violate state or federal law.

2. In states where the state government has declined to serve as a POC, the FFLs initiate a NICS background check by contacting the NCCC for all firearm transfers. The FBI conducts the NICS check and determines whether or not the transfer would violate state or federal law.

3. Finally, in states where the state government has agreed to serve as a POC for handgun purchases but not for long gun purchases, the FFLs contact the NICS through the designated state POC for handgun transfers and the NICS Section for long gun transfers.

Each state decides whether the FFLs in its state call a state POC or the FBI to initiate firearm background checks.

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This is all Rauners fault

 

Maybe....

 

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-met-aurora-shooting-gun-license-illinois-state-police-20190218-story.html

 

 

Illinois State Police acknowledge it wrongly issued a gun license to Aurora shooter

Illinois State Police acknowledged Monday that the agency wrongly issued a gun license to the shooter in the Aurora warehouse murders, but in a detailed statement the agency also suggested that the Aurora Police Department may have failed to do its part to ensure the man no longer owned a weapon.

According to state records, Gary Martin applied for a firearm owner’s identification card on Jan. 17, 2014. He provided his name and birth date for a background check, and falsely answered “no” when asked if he had ever been convicted of a felony.

A records search only returned Martin’s criminal history in Illinois, a series of minor infractions that did not disqualify him from owning a gun. The screening process failed to detect a mid-1990s felony conviction for aggravated assault in Mississippi for which he served five years in prison and was released in 1997.

Martin received his gun license on Jan. 31, 2014. Less than five weeks later, he purchased a .40-caliber Smith & Wesson from an Aurora gun dealer. The purchase was approved March 6, 2014, after Martin’s name and birth date cleared a second background check.

....

Aurora police Chief Kristen Ziman said a criminal background check would not necessarily detect a 20-year-old conviction. But Martin’s aggravated assault is easily found in public record databases used by the Chicago Tribune and news organizations across the country.

....

The Illinois State Police realized Martin never should have received his gun license within weeks of the Smith & Wesson’s purchase, according to a timeline the agency provided Monday. Martin applied for a concealed carry license on March 16, 2014, and submitted his fingerprints to expedite the application process. Those prints produced an FBI record that ultimately led state police to Martin’s felony conviction in Mississippi.

.....

Upon receipt of the letter, Martin was given 48 hours to transfer the handgun to someone with a valid firearm license or his local law enforcement agency, state police said Monday. He also was required to submit paperwork — referred to as a firearm disposition record — to the Aurora Police Department proving he no longer possessed the gun.

Aurora police, in turn, were required to mail the completed form to the Illinois State Police. The state agency has no record of Aurora ever sending the required documentation.

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This is all Rauners fault

 

Maybe....

 

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-met-aurora-shooting-gun-license-illinois-state-police-20190218-story.html

 

 

Illinois State Police acknowledge it wrongly issued a gun license to Aurora shooter

Illinois State Police acknowledged Monday that the agency wrongly issued a gun license to the shooter in the Aurora warehouse murders, but in a detailed statement the agency also suggested that the Aurora Police Department may have failed to do its part to ensure the man no longer owned a weapon.

According to state records, Gary Martin applied for a firearm owner’s identification card on Jan. 17, 2014. He provided his name and birth date for a background check, and falsely answered “no” when asked if he had ever been convicted of a felony.

A records search only returned Martin’s criminal history in Illinois, a series of minor infractions that did not disqualify him from owning a gun. The screening process failed to detect a mid-1990s felony conviction for aggravated assault in Mississippi for which he served five years in prison and was released in 1997.

Martin received his gun license on Jan. 31, 2014. Less than five weeks later, he purchased a .40-caliber Smith & Wesson from an Aurora gun dealer. The purchase was approved March 6, 2014, after Martin’s name and birth date cleared a second background check.

....

Aurora police Chief Kristen Ziman said a criminal background check would not necessarily detect a 20-year-old conviction. But Martin’s aggravated assault is easily found in public record databases used by the Chicago Tribune and news organizations across the country.

....

The Illinois State Police realized Martin never should have received his gun license within weeks of the Smith & Wesson’s purchase, according to a timeline the agency provided Monday. Martin applied for a concealed carry license on March 16, 2014, and submitted his fingerprints to expedite the application process. Those prints produced an FBI record that ultimately led state police to Martin’s felony conviction in Mississippi.

.....

Upon receipt of the letter, Martin was given 48 hours to transfer the handgun to someone with a valid firearm license or his local law enforcement agency, state police said Monday. He also was required to submit paperwork — referred to as a firearm disposition record — to the Aurora Police Department proving he no longer possessed the gun.

Aurora police, in turn, were required to mail the completed form to the Illinois State Police. The state agency has no record of Aurora ever sending the required documentation.

 

 

 

Let the finger pointing begin!

 

It is amazing to me that the antis (well at least those that go to meetings and wear the sweatshirts) believe that the government is can competently handle something like dealer licensing, and that passing such bills will resolve anything.

 

We all know that the leadership has a different goal in mind.

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OK, I'm going out on a limb here and you can all put away your chainsaws. If finger prints were required to get a FOID card, wouldn't this idiot have been denied ? I'm not saying they SHOULD be required , although I have no problem with it because having been in the military and having a CC permit my prints are already on file. But being that all you need to purchase a gun is a FOID card wouldn't this help weed out some of these folks who slip through the cracks? Just saying!

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OK, I'm going out on a limb here and you can all put away your chainsaws. If finger prints were required to get a FOID card, wouldn't this idiot have been denied ? I'm not saying they SHOULD be required , although I have no problem with it because having been in the military and having a CC permit my prints are already on file. But being that all you need to purchase a gun is a FOID card wouldn't this help weed out some of these folks who slip through the cracks? Just saying!

 

 

Not trying to be argumentative, but wouldn't that just increase the expense (money and time) of getting a FOID card? Why should this be passed off onto our backs?

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I think that instead of saying “ I'm just thinking that if something isn't done to weed the bad guys out better, we may all suffer “ you instead say “legislation has no effect on criminals”. For Nearly 100 years, firearms owners have “compromised” with gun grabbers in an attempt to appease them. Law abiding firearms owners jump through hoops to exercise their rights while criminals skirt the law.
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OK, I'm going out on a limb here and you can all put away your chainsaws. If finger prints were required to get a FOID card, wouldn't this idiot have been denied ? I'm not saying they SHOULD be required , although I have no problem with it because having been in the military and having a CC permit my prints are already on file. But being that all you need to purchase a gun is a FOID card wouldn't this help weed out some of these folks who slip through the cracks? Just saying!

 

I might agree with you if “all you need to purchase a gun is a FOID card” but that is definitely NOT the case. You still need to jump through all the hoops — background checks, Fed forms, etc. The FOID adds an additional step that provides no additional value.

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FOID cards are a total useless waste of time if no one is checking the people who have them. NICS checks are done for every purchase of any gun. If anything, this should show how useless the FOID is.

 

Except the ISP are now telling the media that ONLY a name / DOB check is done - not a full NICS check.

 

I don’t know where the lie is... either this is true (no NICS check done for the FOID or the gun purchase) - or NICS was checked and at the time of the NICS check the felony conviction was not in the national database.

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It looks like the shooter previously had domestic violence and felonies in another state, and even after being refused a CCL in Illinois and having his FOID revoked he still managed to make a purchase?

 

https://www.dailyherald.com/news/20190217/aurora-shooter-was-convicted-of-beating-girlfriend-with-baseball-bat-stabbing-her

Does anyone here honestly believe that guy wouldn't have had a gun even if he was denied a FOID card right from the beginning?

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OK, I'm going out on a limb here and you can all put away your chainsaws. If finger prints were required to get a FOID card, wouldn't this idiot have been denied ? I'm not saying they SHOULD be required , although I have no problem with it because having been in the military and having a CC permit my prints are already on file. But being that all you need to purchase a gun is a FOID card wouldn't this help weed out some of these folks who slip through the cracks? Just saying!

I might agree with you if “all you need to purchase a gun is a FOID card” but that is definitely NOT the case. You still need to jump through all the hoops — background checks, Fed forms, etc. The FOID adds an additional step that provides no additional value.

 

 

This is exactly my point, the present FOID check up is useless, all I'm saying is that if it included finger printing it would be more thorough and might catch those that shouldn't have one.

As I mentioned in my original post - I'm not advocating this I just brought it up as a possibility. And of course criminals don't get a card or care about the law, that's a moot point.

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This is exactly my point, the present FOID check up is useless, all I'm saying is that if it included finger printing it would be more thorough and might catch those that shouldn't have one.

As I mentioned in my original post - I'm not advocating this I just brought it up as a possibility. And of course criminals don't get a card or care about the law, that's a moot point.

The problem with that is that some say they've been able to find his record with a simple internet search:

 

https://wgntv.com/2019/02/18/thousands-are-told-to-relinquish-their-guns-each-year-in-illinois-what-happens-next-is-up-to-them/

 

...A records search failed to reveal that Martin was actually convicted of aggravated assault in Mississippi in 1995 for an attack that reportedly nearly killed his girlfriend.

 

WGN Investigates was able to trace his convictions with a simple internet search, but how the error got past Illinois State Police is unclear. Receiving the FOID card allowed Martin to purchase the Smith and Wesson handgun used in the Aurora massacre.

...

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Thatâs not saying much of anything.... Were those records there last year, or the year before, or 5 years ago? When did the appear? A lot of counties records are on line and have been for years, others are just now coming on line and a lot arenât even close yet....

ISP says they still can't find anything on him without prints, even today.

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