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Another instructor skirting the system


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#31 Mr. Fife

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 09:31 AM

You only have to do the 16 hours once. One good thing about it is that it meets or exceeds other states training requirements, and that's probably one reason the IL permit is recognized in so many states as compared to some other states permits.

On the other hand, it is overkill if you consider some states have no training requirements, and the streets are not flowing with rivers of blood.
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#32 papa

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 10:04 AM

“Skirting the law” or not aside, 16 hrs of instruction is not intended to educate or train, its to make it difficult for people to get a permit plain and simple. There’s nothing in that 16hrs you can’t cover in 4, unless you count an instructor’s stories about their time in the service. It seems like some students are mistaking that 16 hrs for a robust education in the law or consider it training. It ain’t. You leave an IL carry class with no greater skill or knowledge after that 16 hrs than an online course. Having taken carry courses in MN, MA and IL I can tell you that’s the case.But I’m probably preaching to the choir. My question: How do we go about getting rid of the 16hr requirement? And let’s abolish FOID, expand legal places to carry, reduce the $150 fee while we are at it.

 

As soon as Mike Madagan is out of office we might be able to advance those items.  As long as he is sitting at the head of the table we have a very rough road to travel.



#33 connsolo

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 11:45 AM

“Skirting the law” or not aside, 16 hrs of instruction is not intended to educate or train, its to make it difficult for people to get a permit plain and simple. There’s nothing in that 16hrs you can’t cover in 4, unless you count an instructor’s stories about their time in the service. It seems like some students are mistaking that 16 hrs for a robust education in the law or consider it training. It ain’t. You leave an IL carry class with no greater skill or knowledge after that 16 hrs than an online course. Having taken carry courses in MN, MA and IL I can tell you that’s the case.But I’m probably preaching to the choir. My question: How do we go about getting rid of the 16hr requirement? And let’s abolish FOID, expand legal places to carry, reduce the $150 fee while we are at it.

Agreed on almost all fronts.  The 16 hours WAS a waste of my time concerning learning anything.  I've been on this site long and often enough that what was taught in class had already been known through this awesome site.  My wife took the class with me and she did learn a few things.  That said, there are some things the class does teach depending on your level of ability as well as your common sense-O-meter.
You will certainly learn something. It just isn’t anything you can’t learn in 4 hours.

#34 connsolo

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 12:28 PM

You only have to do the 16 hours once. One good thing about it is that it meets or exceeds other states training requirements, and that's probably one reason the IL permit is recognized in so many states as compared to some other states permits.
On the other hand, it is overkill if you consider some states have no training requirements, and the streets are not flowing with rivers of blood.


Well I have to respectfully disagree with you, or at least add some context. Renewal is simpler in the two other states I’ve held a permit, and cheaper. If the IL permit process was on par with other states and we lost a couple states that honor the IL permit in the process, those seeking to carry in states not covered by IL permit would be free to pursue an out of state ccl like a Utah or Florida permit. If that was our reality, the dollar amount all in may be the same, but the time commitment would still be less (and obviously less time AND money for those who don’t need to carry in whatever state wouldn’t honor this hypothetical IL permit).

Lastly, and I totally got your point, it’s not just overkill compared to NO training required, it’s overkill even compared to states with beyond adequate training required. More importantly it’s not even overkill, it’s restrictive.

Overall I generally don’t agree with the “it could be worse” or “yeah, but” or silver lining sentimentality that I see here and in Massachusetts. Admittedly, I did nothing to get the law s passed, I respect the hard work that the community put in to get us where we are. Being new I’m just shocked by it all. I’ve had better, IL is home now, I want to help make it better here,

As it relates to the threads original topic, we should be high diving this guy, not tsktsk-ing him or his instructor. It’s a stupid law, we’re grown ups. Let’s change it.

#35 Xwing

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Posted Yesterday, 03:20 PM

The original quote sounds like the scammy instructor wrote it, hoping to entice those who wish to ignore the law. 

 

The law requiring 16 hours is a bad law, but it is still the law.  It is a foolish move to skirt it, and then to brag about it publicly...


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#36 67vtx1800

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Posted Today, 06:32 AM

Instructors shortcutting the training are taking a big risk. I personally don’t give a stitch though. I respect those who want and provide advanced training. The required training for the CCL is an insult to adult intelligence. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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#37 Mr. Fife

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Posted Today, 07:34 AM



You only have to do the 16 hours once. One good thing about it is that it meets or exceeds other states training requirements, and that's probably one reason the IL permit is recognized in so many states as compared to some other states permits.
On the other hand, it is overkill if you consider some states have no training requirements, and the streets are not flowing with rivers of blood.

Well I have to respectfully disagree with you, or at least add some context. Renewal is simpler in the two other states I’ve held a permit, and cheaper. If the IL permit process was on par with other states and we lost a couple states that honor the IL permit in the process, those seeking to carry in states not covered by IL permit would be free to pursue an out of state ccl like a Utah or Florida permit. .


If we lost MN and MI then a non resident UT of FL would be no help. If it came to that I would be against shorter classes.


While shorter classes would be nice, for those who already have their permits it would make no difference at all. This fight must be fought by those who haven't had their training yet, and the rest of us will support them.
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