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As Gunman Rampaged Through Florida School, Armed Deputy ‘Never Went In’

harley1955

By harley1955
in National Politics

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hgmeyer Member

hgmeyer

Posted
Posted

This looks like a parallel to a plane crash, not just one cause, but an intersection of several. Multiple warning signs ignored, failed systems, no immediate law enforcement response, and maybe more to come.

 

This is a nightmare that became a reality. As time passes and careful analysis is completed hopefully positive results can result.

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dumpnpump Member

dumpnpump

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Knowing the anti gun mantra that follows this sort of thing, I too was quite disheartened when I first heard this story. But as time goes by and more and more layers of the onion are peeled back, I have reason to be optimistic. A LEO too close to pension to do his job. Trump is actively advocating for HR 34 to reverse the 1990 Biden legislation turning schools into victim disarmament zones. More and more media outlets are doing storys on armed staff in school and with at least a neutral bias. We may yet eleminate most school shootings in this country. They have very few school shootings in Israel. Perhaps it is the weaponry the staff carrys. There may indeed be a silver lining to this tradgedy.

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1700715 Member

1700715

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A gutless coward not fit to be a mall security guard !

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jim schad Member

jim schad

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Hate to burst your bubble, but it's now up to FOUR deputies that waited outside until another department made entry with two other late coming deputies...

 

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/02/23/report-four-sheriff-scott-israels-deputies-waited-outside-douglas-high-school-shooting/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_term=daily&utm_content=links&utm_campaign=20180223

 

 

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GLOCK22 Member

GLOCK22

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Hate to burst your bubble, but it's now up to FOUR deputies that waited outside until another department made entry with two other late coming deputies...

 

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/02/23/report-four-sheriff-scott-israels-deputies-waited-outside-douglas-high-school-shooting/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_term=daily&utm_content=links&utm_campaign=20180223

 

They should ALL be fired.

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kk5 Member

kk5

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Hate to burst your bubble, but it's now up to FOUR deputies that waited outside until another department made entry with two other late coming deputies...

 

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/02/23/report-four-sheriff-scott-israels-deputies-waited-outside-douglas-high-school-shooting/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_term=daily&utm_content=links&utm_campaign=20180223

They should ALL be fired.

 

 

Sheriff too.

Way too many failures on their part.

The police don't have to save you, but now they want to take away our guns so we can't protect ourselves. Go figure.

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JDW Member

JDW

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Sheriff Scott Israel needs to be canned, STAT. All 4 of these cowards need to be called out by the media. The media needs to call out The FBI, The LEO's, and the School Admins. All 3 knew well in advance this kid was very disturbed and a danger to himself and others. This was preventable and that's what makes a tragic story, exponentially worse. I can't imagine the anger of parents of these kids must be feeling on top of the unimaginable pain they're feeling.

I know we're all human, and we all make mistakes. It happens. But when this kid slips through the cracks of THREE groups that are supposed to protect these kids and the rest of us, something is terribly wrong. My heart aches for all those involved. :(

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skinnyb82 Member

skinnyb82

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Sheriff Israel has big problems as he knew about this when he was ranting about guns and blaming the NRA. I'm not gonna get into this now but he has been investigated for corruption. He's good pals with Hillary. It's almost like they WANTED this to happen. Standing outside while kids are being shot, sucking on their thumbs while another agency shows up and actually does something. Why did Coral Springs have to enter the building first and why were FOUR BCSO deputies just standing outside with all of that carnage happening in the school? This stinks.

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OldMarineVet Member

OldMarineVet

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Posted

 

 

Hate to burst your bubble, but it's now up to FOUR deputies that waited outside until another department made entry with two other late coming deputies...

 

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/02/23/report-four-sheriff-scott-israels-deputies-waited-outside-douglas-high-school-shooting/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_term=daily&utm_content=links&utm_campaign=20180223

They should ALL be fired.

 

 

Sheriff too.

Way too many failures on their part.

The police don't have to save you, but now they want to take away our guns so we can't protect ourselves. Go figure.

 

I don't think a Sheriff can be fired. They are elected. Sheriffs don't report to anybody who can fire them. That's what helps Sheriff's to be independently Constitutional. Great for most cases, but not this one. Might need to do some sort of recall...

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anonymous too Member

anonymous too

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Posted
I don't think a Sheriff can be fired. They are elected. Sheriffs don't report to anybody who can fire them. That's what helps Sheriff's to be independently Constitutional. Great for most cases, but not this one. Might need to do some sort of recall...

 

Don't know about FL, but in IL the only person that can arrest a sheriff in a given county is it's coroner and the only person that can arrest the coroner is the sheriff in that county.

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RANDY Member

RANDY

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I don't think a Sheriff can be fired. They are elected. Sheriffs don't report to anybody who can fire them. That's what helps Sheriff's to be independently Constitutional. Great for most cases, but not this one. Might need to do some sort of recall...

 

Don't know about FL, but in IL the only person that can arrest a sheriff in a given county is it's coroner and the only person that can arrest the coroner is the sheriff in that county.

 

Not busting your chops, but could you direct me to the correct statute to I can look it up myself

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anonymous too Member

anonymous too

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Posted

(55 ILCS 5/3-3007) (from Ch. 34, par. 3-3007)

Sec. 3-3007. Conservator of the peace. Each coroner shall be conservator of the peace in his county, and, in the performance of his duties as such, shall have the same powers as the sheriff.

(Source: P.A. 86-962.)

 

(55 ILCS 5/3-3008) (from Ch. 34, par. 3-3008)

Sec. 3-3008. Coroner to act when sheriff prejudiced. When it appears from the papers in a case that the sheriff or his deputy is a party thereto, or from affidavit filed that he is interested therein, or is of kin, or partial to or prejudiced against either party, the summons, execution or other process may be directed to the coroner, who shall perform all the duties in relation thereto, and attend to the suit in like manner as if he were sheriff; and the interests, consanguinity, partiality or prejudice of the sheriff shall not be cause for a change of venue.

(Source: P.A. 86-962.)

 

(55 ILCS 5/3-3010) (from Ch. 34, par. 3-3010)

Sec. 3-3010. Deputy sheriff, undersheriff, or coroner to act when sheriff's office vacant. Where the office of the sheriff is vacant, the chief deputy sheriff or undersheriff if designated by the sheriff to fill the vacancy, or, if no designation is made, the coroner of the county shall perform all the duties required by law to be performed by the sheriff, and have the same powers, and be liable to the same penalties and proceedings as if he were sheriff, until another sheriff is elected or appointed and qualified. The designation shall be in writing and filed with the county clerk.

(Source: P.A. 91-633, eff. 12-1-99.)

 

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RANDY Member

RANDY

Posted
Posted

 

(55 ILCS 5/3-3007) (from Ch. 34, par. 3-3007)

Sec. 3-3007. Conservator of the peace. Each coroner shall be conservator of the peace in his county, and, in the performance of his duties as such, shall have the same powers as the sheriff.

(Source: P.A. 86-962.)

 

(55 ILCS 5/3-3008) (from Ch. 34, par. 3-3008)

Sec. 3-3008. Coroner to act when sheriff prejudiced. When it appears from the papers in a case that the sheriff or his deputy is a party thereto, or from affidavit filed that he is interested therein, or is of kin, or partial to or prejudiced against either party, the summons, execution or other process may be directed to the coroner, who shall perform all the duties in relation thereto, and attend to the suit in like manner as if he were sheriff; and the interests, consanguinity, partiality or prejudice of the sheriff shall not be cause for a change of venue.

(Source: P.A. 86-962.)

 

(55 ILCS 5/3-3010) (from Ch. 34, par. 3-3010)

Sec. 3-3010. Deputy sheriff, undersheriff, or coroner to act when sheriff's office vacant. Where the office of the sheriff is vacant, the chief deputy sheriff or undersheriff if designated by the sheriff to fill the vacancy, or, if no designation is made, the coroner of the county shall perform all the duties required by law to be performed by the sheriff, and have the same powers, and be liable to the same penalties and proceedings as if he were sheriff, until another sheriff is elected or appointed and qualified. The designation shall be in writing and filed with the county clerk.

(Source: P.A. 91-633, eff. 12-1-99.)

 

 

But it doesn't specifically say that the only person that can arrest the sheriff is the coroner, and the coroner can arrest the sheriff. Just because they have the same authority and powers doesn't say that somebody else cannot arrest them for committing a crime.

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anonymous too Member

anonymous too

Posted
Posted

This may help you some, from Dupage Co. although it's from a Kane Co. link.

 

http://www.countyofkane.org/Lists/Events/Attachments/3423/Handout%20s%20-%2014%20Jan%20COW%20-%20DuPage%20Co%20Coroner.pdf

 

Common Law and Historical Precedent Sheriffs and coroners can trace the history of their respective offices back hundreds of years to post-Norman conquest England. Many of the coroner's statutory duties unrelated to death investigations derive from the historic role of coroners as local agents of the English monarch and their court. Because the Illinois constitution specifically vests county officers, including the coroner, with the duties, powers or functions they inherited from common law or historical precedent, Illinois' statutory law does not fully enumerate every power or function a coroner may possess. Nevertheless, the state legislature and a county board may alter these powers by law ordinance, respectively.

 

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BobPistol Member

BobPistol

Posted
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The deeper this gets, the more the LWW narrative that "the police will protect us you don't need guns" gets demolished big time.

 

My favorite comment from the FBI oopsie link:

 

 

 

Well which is it liberals? Non judgmentalism, inclusivity, tolerance and diversity? Or is it “if you see something say something”? It can’t be both. Decide. Which is it?

The libs imposed their group think on High Schools, and even though they saw something and said something the liberals tied the minds of our professional peacekeepers. Turned them into professional cowards

Useless placeholders
wishing to retire in a beachfront home

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RANDY Member

RANDY

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Posted

 

This may help you some, from Dupage Co. although it's from a Kane Co. link.

 

http://www.countyofkane.org/Lists/Events/Attachments/3423/Handout%20s%20-%2014%20Jan%20COW%20-%20DuPage%20Co%20Coroner.pdf

 

Common Law and Historical Precedent Sheriffs and coroners can trace the history of their respective offices back hundreds of years to post-Norman conquest England. Many of the coroner's statutory duties unrelated to death investigations derive from the historic role of coroners as local agents of the English monarch and their court. Because the Illinois constitution specifically vests county officers, including the coroner, with the duties, powers or functions they inherited from common law or historical precedent, Illinois' statutory law does not fully enumerate every power or function a coroner may possess. Nevertheless, the state legislature and a county board may alter these powers by law ordinance, respectively.

 

 

I understand that the Coroner has the same authority as the sheriff, and can fill in for the sheriff in his absence, and will be acting jail warden if the sheriff is in jail, but it doesn't say any where that the Coroner is the only person that can arrest the sheriff, or the sheriff to arrest the coroner.

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RANDY Member

RANDY

Posted
Posted

 

 

This may help you some, from Dupage Co. although it's from a Kane Co. link.

 

http://www.countyofkane.org/Lists/Events/Attachments/3423/Handout%20s%20-%2014%20Jan%20COW%20-%20DuPage%20Co%20Coroner.pdf

 

Common Law and Historical Precedent Sheriffs and coroners can trace the history of their respective offices back hundreds of years to post-Norman conquest England. Many of the coroner's statutory duties unrelated to death investigations derive from the historic role of coroners as local agents of the English monarch and their court. Because the Illinois constitution specifically vests county officers, including the coroner, with the duties, powers or functions they inherited from common law or historical precedent, Illinois' statutory law does not fully enumerate every power or function a coroner may possess. Nevertheless, the state legislature and a county board may alter these powers by law ordinance, respectively.

 

 

I understand that the Coroner has the same authority as the sheriff, and can fill in for the sheriff in his absence, and will be acting jail warden if the sheriff is in jail, but it doesn't say any where that the Coroner is the only person that can arrest the sheriff, or the sheriff to arrest the coroner.

 

From what I have looks at there has been two illinois sheriff's arrested that I could find, One was arrested by the DEA for drug offenses and murder for hire and the other one for obstruction but can't find the arresting officer, but from a news article I found could be the ISP.

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anonymous too Member

anonymous too

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Posted

The coroner's authority, and the sheriff's, goes back centuries under old English law to counterbalance the power of the sheriff.

 

https://www.coronersillinois.org/anderson-lawsuit

 

The office of coroner is a common law office, United States Life Insurance Co. vs. Vocke, 129 Ill. 557, 22 N.E. 467 (1889). The office of coroner is of such great antiquity that its commencement is not known, but its duties were defined by statute as early as the fourth year of the reign of King Edward I of England. United States Life Insurance Co. vs. Vocke, 129 Ill. 2d 557, 22 N.E. 467 (1889). The Illinois Supreme Court has observed that coroners are very ancient officers at common law. In England, they were chosen by the freeholders of the county, and their powers, when appointed, are either judicial or ministerial. The judicial power of a coroner is, first, to inquire into and concerning the death of a man, when one is slain or dies suddenly, by a jury of inquest, and at common law this had to be done at the place where the death happened. United States Life Insurance Co. vs. Vocke, 129 Ill. 557, 22 N.E. 467 (1889).

 

The statutes defining the duties of the office of coroner are in all critical aspects the same in 1988 as they were in 1918 when the Peoria Cordage Co. case, supra, was decided. Section 6 of Chapter 31 of the Illinois Revised Statutes quoted hereinabove, was last amended on February 6, 1874. S.H.A. Ch. 31, §6. Section 10 of Chapter 31, hereinabove quoted, in part, has been amended by the legislature from time to time, but a review of the amendments establishes that the primary intent of the amendatory legislation has been to expand, rather than to limit, the duties of the office of coroner.

 

The court concludes that the Constitution of Illinois of 1970 clothes Illinois coroners with all of the common law power and authority which coroners since ancient times have possessed, as well as all of the authority and power granted to the office of coroner by the statutes of the State of Illinois, most of which have remained unchanged since the adoption of the constitution of 1870.

 

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anonymous too Member

anonymous too

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Doesn't look like the sheriff committed any of his offenses in Gallatin County and also remained in office the whole time he was held in jail.

 

http://www.kmov.com/story/28495285/former-illinois-sheriff-sentenced-to-2-life-terms-plus-10-years

Investigation into the drug aspect of the case was led by the Carmi office of the Illinois State Police/Southern Illinois Drug Task Force and the United States Attorney’s Office with the assistance of the United States Drug Enforcement Administration, the Criminal Investigations Division of the Internal Revenue Service, the Mt. Vernon, Illinois, Police Department and the White County State’s Attorney’s Office.

 

Investigation into the witness tampering and financial structuring aspects of the case was led by the Jackson County Sheriff’s Department and the United States Attorney’s Office with the assistance of the Illinois State Police/Southern Illinois Drug Task Force, the IRS/CID, DEA, the Jackson County State’s Attorney’s Office and the White County State’s Attorney’s Office.

 

Investigation into Martin’s recent smuggling of prescription medication into the Williamson County Jail was conducted by the United States Marshals Service, the Illinois State Police and the Williamson County Sheriff's Department.

Martin, who remained sheriff while being held in federal custody because he refused to resign, was removed from office by the Gallatin County Board immediately after his convictions.

 

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