vito Posted January 20, 2018 at 06:23 PM Share Posted January 20, 2018 at 06:23 PM I'm not a big fan of seeing the government shut down, but I am even less of a fan of seeing the Democrats force the majority to legalize a bunch of illegals as a condition of keeping the government operating. But on a personal level, I don't think the government shut down will have much of an effect on me. My Social Security check will still be issued, and if my military pension check is delayed I can cover that with savings, at least for awhile. Maybe the biggest impact would be if my grandson's doctor refused to treat him because his health coverage is, I believe, funded by the CHIP program. But overall, I can do just fine until this is all worked out. What I wish would happen is if all the government workers who are not working do NOT get back pay once this crisis is resolved. They didn't ask to be off work, but they should not be paid for time spent not working, regardless of who is at fault. And for what its worth, the solution to this "crisis" is so simple that it is mindboggling. Mitch McConnell, if he gave a damn, could propose a rule change to end the filibuster rule once and for all and then the 50 votes in favor of the continuing resolution, plus Mike Pence as tie breaker, who end the matter today. But for whatever reason, McConnell is more loyal to archaic Senate rules and tradition than he is to the welfare of the nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcompton Posted January 20, 2018 at 06:29 PM Share Posted January 20, 2018 at 06:29 PM It’s a double edge sword. One day something REALLY terrible might be on the verge of passing and boy howdy would we wish we had the 60pt rule back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicagoresident Posted January 20, 2018 at 07:07 PM Share Posted January 20, 2018 at 07:07 PM It’s a double edge sword. One day something REALLY terrible might be on the verge of passing and boy howdy would we wish we had the 60pt rule backThat's my feeling. This was the only power the Republicans had for a while. My big question is how much does the shutdown actually cost? I keep seeing these abstract costs that include a bunch of different things. Like, what is the savings of not paying government employees and shutting facilities down VS. interest penalties on late payments? Does it cost the government or actually save it money? Is this the equivalent of throwing Brer Rabbit in the briar patch for Republicans looking to curb out of control spending? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet Observer Posted January 20, 2018 at 07:09 PM Share Posted January 20, 2018 at 07:09 PM I'm not a big fan of seeing the government shut down, but I am even less of a fan of seeing the Democrats force the majority to legalize a bunch of illegals as a condition of keeping the government operating. But on a personal level, I don't think the government shut down will have much of an effect on me. My Social Security check will still be issued, and if my military pension check is delayed I can cover that with savings, at least for awhile. Maybe the biggest impact would be if my grandson's doctor refused to treat him because his health coverage is, I believe, funded by the CHIP program. But overall, I can do just fine until this is all worked out. What I wish would happen is if all the government workers who are not working do NOT get back pay once this crisis is resolved. They didn't ask to be off work, but they should not be paid for time spent not working, regardless of who is at fault. And for what its worth, the solution to this "crisis" is so simple that it is mindboggling. Mitch McConnell, if he gave a damn, could propose a rule change to end the filibuster rule once and for all and then the 50 votes in favor of the continuing resolution, plus Mike Pence as tie breaker, who end the matter today. But for whatever reason, McConnell is more loyal to archaic Senate rules and tradition than he is to the welfare of the nation. It is not a once and for all matter. Rules can be changed. Laws can be changed. Even the Constitution can be changed. Here a history of rule changes in the Senate concerning votes needed in certain situations dating back to 1917. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_option Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnybgood Posted January 20, 2018 at 07:25 PM Share Posted January 20, 2018 at 07:25 PM I personally think trump is being smart. He has DACA going before the Supreme Court who will most likely rule that since it was an executive order he can overturn it anytime he wants. Once so he will let this go on for only so long then ask McConnell for the rule change to bring stability back to our nation and military. My 2c. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
45Badger Posted January 20, 2018 at 07:27 PM Share Posted January 20, 2018 at 07:27 PM No impact on my daily life. Govt employees will suffer cash flow pinch. In long run, they get paid. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnybgood Posted January 20, 2018 at 07:47 PM Share Posted January 20, 2018 at 07:47 PM No impact on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Looper Posted January 20, 2018 at 07:55 PM Share Posted January 20, 2018 at 07:55 PM What shutdown ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spec5 Posted January 20, 2018 at 08:00 PM Share Posted January 20, 2018 at 08:00 PM Personally? I care for military so in that regard yes personally. I understand surveillance will suffer too. Schumer and Pelosi should be ashamed of themselves. But you know what it doesn’t matter what we think or how we are affected It’s all about Schumer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwc Posted January 20, 2018 at 08:19 PM Share Posted January 20, 2018 at 08:19 PM As a fairly senior military member, having my next paycheck postponed beyond Feb 1 wont pose a major financial setback for me and my family. I worry about the junior troops who may have less of a rainy day reserve in their bank accounts. In my current headquarters organization, which oversees military medical operations at multiple locations nationwide, we expect to have our civilian membersabout half of our staff, and one deep in their specialtiesbe sent home without pay and the rest of us prohibited from contacting them during the furlough. It will be very hard for the rest of us to sustain effective support to our units if the shutdown continues for more than a few days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmyers Posted January 20, 2018 at 09:10 PM Share Posted January 20, 2018 at 09:10 PM We have a large conference (300 people) setup and OSHA personnel were speaking. They were leading four of the 8 training sessions, so now we finding coverage for those spots or will be canceling some of the sessions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vito Posted January 20, 2018 at 09:12 PM Author Share Posted January 20, 2018 at 09:12 PM I have absolutely no doubt that if and when the Democrats control the Senate and the White House they will jettison the filibuster rule as soon as it is useful for them. It was Harry Reid that ended the filibuster to get their judicial nominees through without the ability of the Republicans to stop them. Reid more or less said that they would do it again if needed even for routine legislation. No matter how the Republicans play this, they will be screwed over when the Dems are in the majority. So the Republicans might as well use their majority, however slim, to push through the entire Republican and Trump agenda. If that leads to a better functioning country, as I assume it would, then they need not worry about losing their majority to the Dems. And frankly, if the House and Senate and the White House all fall under Dem control, then the country deserves whatever awful laws these fools will pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Fife Posted January 20, 2018 at 10:05 PM Share Posted January 20, 2018 at 10:05 PM https://twitter.com/SenateGOP/status/954600969676845056?s=01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spec4 Posted January 20, 2018 at 10:08 PM Share Posted January 20, 2018 at 10:08 PM t affects me to the extent that I can't turn on the radio or TV news without hearing about it. We need a law that says if the government shuts down, all 535 members of Congress must be replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiliconSorcerer Posted January 20, 2018 at 11:24 PM Share Posted January 20, 2018 at 11:24 PM No impact on my daily life. Govt employees will suffer cash flow pinch. In long run, they get paid. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Not all and that's a big not all, it's a furlough I don't get paid period! (Unpaid Leave) I would have to apply for unemployment and that's not happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilfedup Posted January 21, 2018 at 01:57 AM Share Posted January 21, 2018 at 01:57 AM Both houses should be sequestered till this is resolved. No media,no phone and a cot to sleep on. This crap would have been resolved with in 6 hours! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papa Posted January 21, 2018 at 02:46 AM Share Posted January 21, 2018 at 02:46 AM Both houses should be sequestered till this is resolved. No media,no phone and a cot to sleep on. This crap would have been resolved with in 6 hours! And NO pay!! If other services are doing without pay then they can also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobPistol Posted January 21, 2018 at 02:54 AM Share Posted January 21, 2018 at 02:54 AM I"m not a crony, so the shutdown doesn't affect me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScopeEye Posted January 21, 2018 at 03:13 AM Share Posted January 21, 2018 at 03:13 AM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScopeEye Posted January 21, 2018 at 03:14 AM Share Posted January 21, 2018 at 03:14 AM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScopeEye Posted January 21, 2018 at 03:18 AM Share Posted January 21, 2018 at 03:18 AM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomKoz Posted January 21, 2018 at 04:59 AM Share Posted January 21, 2018 at 04:59 AM Pretty clear. Democrats in Congress care more about ILLEGALS than Citizens or Vets ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oohrah Posted January 21, 2018 at 02:10 PM Share Posted January 21, 2018 at 02:10 PM My son is an Army civilian, Corps of Engineers. Last time this happened, he was furloughed without pay, but it was eventually reinstated. But pinch time meanwhile, wife, two young girls. Fortunately, I'm in a position to help them through the rough patch if they need it, but it chaps me that I would even have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicagoresident Posted January 21, 2018 at 02:17 PM Share Posted January 21, 2018 at 02:17 PM So devils advocate, what causes are worth shutting down the government? National Reciprocity, SHARE with HPA intact? Bump stock ban legislation after ATF says they're legal again? (keeping it gun related given the forum). What if I throw the hypothetical sticking points, they won't be decisions that can't be decided by future legislations, just will fail to be on the bill attempting to be passed. SHARE with weakened HPA. Silencers still a have to be NFA registered but legal in 50 states Bump stock ban targeting only bump type devices like bump stocks, hellfire triggers (or other positive reset triggers, and cranks (stupid I know, but keeps being added to these), but imposes no other restrictions for lightened aftermarket triggers or binary triggers. National Reciprocity but with a federal training/licensing standard Still worth shutting down over? I say yes, .gov is a large customer of my employer, but only indirectly on my side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauserme Posted January 21, 2018 at 02:29 PM Share Posted January 21, 2018 at 02:29 PM So devils advocate, what causes are worth shutting down the government? National Reciprocity, SHARE with HPA intact? Bump stock ban legislation after ATF says they're legal again? (keeping it gun related given the forum). What if I throw the hypothetical sticking points, they won't be decisions that can't be decided by future legislations, just will fail to be on the bill attempting to be passed. SHARE with weakened HPA. Silencers still a have to be NFA registered but legal in 50 states Bump stock ban targeting only bump type devices like bump stocks, hellfire triggers (or other positive reset triggers, and cranks (stupid I know, but keeps being added to these), but imposes no other restrictions for lightened aftermarket triggers or binary triggers. National Reciprocity but with a federal training/licensing standard Still worth shutting down over? The movement for smaller government, because shutdowns illustrate how much of it we don't need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vito Posted January 21, 2018 at 02:34 PM Author Share Posted January 21, 2018 at 02:34 PM The Dems are obviously at fault here, trying to use their limited power to have another amnesty for illegals, and having the virtually total support of the media. But where are our supposedly savvy Republican strategists, including the President? President Trump could go directly to the American people by a television appearance to address the nation. He could explain that Republicans are willing to consider resolving the DACA situation, but only as a part of a more comprehensive immigration reform and border security. He could ask the rhetorical question "Why don't the Democrats want us to have border security? Why are they opposed to safeguarding our nation? Why are they so intent on making it easy for foreigners to come here and to take jobs away from Americans, especially poorer Americans and our African American population and to leave our borders open for terrorist infiltration?" He could highlight the plight of military families not getting paid because the Democrats have no concern for our military and their families and cynically hold them hostage for the benefit of future Democrat voters. Much could be done to put pressure on the Democrats that is not being done now, and we know that the media will not apply that pressure so it has to come from Republicans and specifically the President himself. And again, I think if McConnell would only kill the filibuster rule it would solve this and numerous other problems immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicagoresident Posted January 21, 2018 at 02:54 PM Share Posted January 21, 2018 at 02:54 PM The movement for smaller government, because shutdowns illustrate how much of it we don't need.I'm on the same page with you here. Do shutdowns play right into the hands of many Republicans who are saying the same thing? This was the tea party strategy several years ago, so I'm hesitant to call for the end of the practice. Are there any reports that list savings VS. interest penalties? All the mainstream media makes it sound like the government hemorrhages money when shutdowns happen. It's counter to the logic that their hands are tied in spending money in a shutdown (non rhetorical, I really don't have an idea). It just seems like it hurts the general Democrat push for a large powerful federal government. And it cuts off the money of many who are employed in those offices that depend on Democrats keeping the federal government strong. IMO it shows a weakness and either a growing faction or political realignment on the left. I guess what I'm asking, are shutdowns that bad? If the end game is to weaken a strong federal government? Even if it's an opposing party and an opposing issue that does it (shoots themselves in the foot, remove the nose to spite the face, or whatever other idiom fits). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauserme Posted January 21, 2018 at 04:11 PM Share Posted January 21, 2018 at 04:11 PM To the extent that it weakens statist arguments on either side of the aisle, it has the potential for positive change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomKoz Posted January 21, 2018 at 04:29 PM Share Posted January 21, 2018 at 04:29 PM I seem to recall reading somewhere that all employees who lose pay during a shutdown eventually get it paid back.Just more paid vacation time for the employees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blck10th Posted January 21, 2018 at 05:06 PM Share Posted January 21, 2018 at 05:06 PM Personally no. But let’s face it there’s plenty of fat to be trimmed out of the federal government. People who depend on them for every aspect of life really aren’t much of a American citizen. I do think the house and senate should also not be paid. They do need to pay the soldiers who are due their pay. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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