1305 replies to this topic

[Molly B.]

Update June 14, 2017:

If your CCL was denied by the Concealed Carry Review Board, you have a couple of options.  The first and probably the least expensive is to have your record/rap sheet expunged (available only if you have no convictions on your record), then ask the ISP to clear your application from their system and reapply.  The cost would include the expunging fees and the license fee.  There is a very good possibility of success, but make sure everything has been expunged before reapplying.

 

Second option is to file an administrative review complaint in circuit court in the county where you live. However, you need to be aware that the court will only review whether or not the review board acted properly and according to the statute.  The administrative review judge will not evaluate whether or not the review board was justified in their ruling.  If you want to appeal based on a constitutional argument, that must be presented in your response to the review board, otherwise it will not be allowed to be introduced in your court appeal. See this link.

 

The denial letters sent out by the ISP inform applicants that they can appeal a CCL Review Board denial by filing an appeal called an Administrative Review Complaint.  There is a 35 day deadline to file and the appeal must be filed in the circuit court in the county where you live.

 

Some members have shared some examples of what they are filing.  This is not legal advice.  We are just sharing what some think might be what the courts will want to see.

 

Some have argued a 'hearsay defense' claiming a police report is hearsay evidence and not admissible to be considered by the CCL Review Board .  The state appellate courts are dismissing this argument on the basis the statute does allow police reports to be considered.

 

If you have a sample you would like to share, please let us know.

 

Thank you to everyone who has been so helpful in providing new information to the appeal process.  Folks who have filed tell us summons must be served to the chairman of the Concealed Carry Review Board and director of the ISP and any other particular individuals at the ISP you want to add to the appeal process.  We have added templates that others have used for these summons. The fee to file seems to range from around $100 in some counties to over $300 in Cook Co.   We are also told there is a $12-$15 additional fee to file each summons.  A member has added an update about a waiver for the fees:  ask for a waiver form to pay zero to file your petition along with the summons and postage.

 

Cook County specific information:

 

What is the procedure for filing an administrative review complaint or appeal when a concealed carry license has been denied by the Concealed Carry License Review Board?
You need a Chancery Cover sheet, A Complaint, An Administrative Review Summons, any evidence you may have and are required to fill out our certified mailing forms for each defendant you need to serve.    All of these can be found online and or in the Daley Center Chancery Division room 802.  Also a filing fee of: $278 + postage (which varies by weight of the document you have served). You may ask for a waiver to avoid filing fees.
    
What court house and what office does one go to in Cook Co.?    The Daley Center.   50 West Washington Chicago IL.   Room 802      to file the paper work and start your case.

Is there legal assistance if someone must file the appeal pro se?   Good advice is always to start in the basement of the Daley Center,  Room CL-16 (Next to Starbucks) before coming up to Chancery to file your case.     CL-16 has attorneys which can give you free legal advice and help you fill out paperwork.

Carlo DeFranco
Court Clerk Supervisor
 

The following template dates 2014, from early on when the board was denying licenses without revealing what agency objected and without disclosing to the applicant the reason for the objection, so there is a need to do some updating to the template. 

 

 

 A ccl petition 2017.pdf   88.19KB   32 downloads

 

 A Summons1.doc   30KB   13 downloads

 

 A Summons2.doc   30KB   7 downloads

 

It has been suggested that anyone filing also add some 'John Doe' defendants so that if you need to add one later you can simple replace a John Doe with the real person/entity...  as we understand it you won't have to pay to serve the John Doe's until they are named, and this also prevents the court from dropping the paperwork or ruling against you because of a technicality of missing to name someone that was mandated...

 

I want to personally thank all the individuals who are filing appeals and sharing their information with us. 

 

eta: ask for waiver to avoid filing fees

eta: appellate court rulings denying 'hearsay' complaint - 7-18-2017

eta: added new templates with updated info 8-9-2017

Edited by Molly B., 10 August 2017 - 05:46 AM.
updated info August 9, 2017

[RockerXX]

Good to see some sample paperwork, if nothing else this should allow denied individuals to get the process rolling within the specified time period and thus give them more time to secure a lawyer and make their case...

 

Although I still find it sad that it has come to this type of 'may issue' for many who will no have to fight for the right...

[Sfinn]

Molly,

 Thank You !!

[Molly B.]

Molly,

 Thank You !!

 

You are quite welcome.  We're all in this together and we have to look out for each other.

[remchance]

Here is just a tip I have picked up and I hope it helps everyone out.
When your filling out your administrative review cover sheet. It is a good idea to list everyone involved. Including your local Leo.
List the ISP
ISP director
ISP executive director
ISP firearms bureau
ISP firearms bureau chief
ISP conceal carry licence review board
ISP cclrb members list is here - http://appointments....tail.cfm?id=495
List your local police department
Local Leo chief
Leo deputy chief

You don't want to miss anyone who is a part of your denial. It can lead to a dismissal of your case.
List every party and make sure you get mailing address for everyone.
The cclrb imo you shouldn't need each of their addresses.

I am not a lawyer and this is not to be taken as lawyers legal advice.
Just advice from another USA citizen and second amendment/ right to carry supporter.

[RockerXX]

You don't want to miss anyone who is a part of your denial. It can lead to a dismissal of your case.

 

Someone else can provide the actual format used in Illinois courts for this as I'm unaware...  Instead of naming people randomly that you have no idea if they had any involvement or not and missing someone that was involved, you should instead be adding 'John Doe' defendants that you can fill in at a later date...

 

Almost all courts will allow you to simply add 'John Doe' in the list of defendants for one unknown person or for multiples you would add for example 'John Doe 1-25' and this will allow you to fill in up to 25 names at a later date...  Again I'm not sure of the actual and proper format to add John Doe defendants in IL so some further research should be done...

[cnwfan3]

I'm not sure if that's correct.  When I went to file, I had to have the addresses of the defendants because they actually serve all the defendants that you name.  I gets quite costly too since you have to pay to have each one served.  They charged me $15 for each one named.

[RockerXX]

I'm not sure if that's correct.  When I went to file, I had to have the addresses of the defendants because they actually serve all the defendants that you name.  I gets quite costly too since you have to pay to have each one served.  They charged me $15 for each one named.

 

It is correct, it's the way it's done when you don't know exactly who is responsible at the time of filing but need to file the lawsuit prior to time limitations on filing running out...  Google 'fictitious defendants' or 'John Doe defendants' for more info...

 

http://dictionary.la...px?selected=743

 

As the John Doe defendants are discovered during the course of the court proceedings the blanks will be filled in and they will be served at that time...

 

As for cost, naming and paying to serve people that are not involved is the real waste, especially if you fail to name someone that was actually involved and causes the case to be dismissed or lost due to a technicality...

Edited by RockerXX, 14 April 2014 - 09:41 PM.

[cnwfan3]

So I do I need to to serve to all the defendants?  They told me when I filed that had to be done.  I only named the ISP.   Can I add more later?  If so, how do I go about doing that?  Any help would be appreciated.

[bbewmij]

lawyers I've spoken to have said these cases would be very long and expensive to pursue.  I've had zero luck finding an affordable lawyer.  What are most people doing?  Petitioning on their own, then seeking council? 

[Ssrkid86]

The majority of us are filing the appeal, petition, etc on our own. From there, I personally cannot afford an attorney so will be going at it alone with the help of fellow Illinois Carry members.

[AG5124]

when we go to file at the daley center what exactly do we need besides the petition above....anybody know/help

[Ssrkid86]

I was told to have 3 copies of your appeal petition and expect to fill out two more forms.

The individual I spoke with told me this BEFORE the summons and summons complaint forms were listed on this thread, so I'm not sure if those are what the individual was referring to.

Also, that it was just under $300 to file.

Expect to spend some time waiting in line as well.

 

If I'm missing anything, please fill in the blanks! I'm going to file in about 10 days and am curious what else needs to be done.

[cnwfan3]

when we go to file at the daley center what exactly do we need besides the petition above....anybody know/help

 

You need 3 copies of it.  You will also need to fill out two other forms and an envelope and certified mail return reciept for each defendant served, and $300 (cash check or charge, they charge you extra for charge).  When I went, I had my copies and I filled everything else out there.  I only named the ISP, but according to some it might be a good idea to name "John Doe" as a place holder so you can name other if needed.  It took me about 10 -15 minutes to fill out the paper work.  I was very lucky in that there was only 1 person in line when I got there and they were just finishing up.  When I was leaving, there were about 10 people in line (and of course only 1 clerk working).  There clerk was really nice and helped me with the forms and answered all my questions.

 

Good luck with the appeal!

[1700715]

Yes but the Ccl law does not state you must make ISP a party to the court proceeding. Whereas the FOID card act states you must make the relevant states attorney a party by serving them notice 30 days before any court date. Ilcs65/10c . There has been a case where a FOID was denied. Then the denied appealed to the court and the court issued an order that ISP must issue a FOID. But then ISP argued they were not made party the the hearing. In the end the courts ruled that the FOID act does not state that they be made party. So the initial order was upheld. I believe you can read the case at the ISRA web site. Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

[remchance]

Defens, I never said it's going to be a walk in the park and I did say in "laymen terms"

I don't understand how lawyers are asking thousands of $$ for retainers fees when in fact they have no clue. A lawyer I talked to wanted $2000 off the bat. Told him he is a nut job. I have all the documents filled out and filed just needed a person with legal experience to go to court for me and do the talking so I myself wouldn't say something stupid. I'm not a lawyer work a full time job and a part time, have two kids in sports , and still found time to read the Illinois conceal carry law, the administrative review law, basic procedures of administrative review, FOIA, and many other laws and information to get a footing on whats ahead. Filled out paperwork, and file it with fees.

I got arrested years ago for trespassing maybe 16yo and the lawyer wanted $1000 bucks to fight my case. I wasn't stupid then and I'm definitely not stupid now. No pun intended.

[Dfens]

Defens, I never said it's going to be a walk in the park and I did say in "laymen terms"

I don't understand how lawyers are asking thousands of $$ for retainers fees when in fact they have no clue. A lawyer I talked to wanted $2000 off the bat. Told him he is a nut job. I have all the documents filled out and filed just needed a person with legal experience to go to court for me and do the talking so I myself wouldn't say something stupid. I'm not a lawyer work a full time job and a part time, have two kids in sports , and still found time to read the Illinois conceal carry law, the administrative review law, basic procedures of administrative review, FOIA, and many other laws and information to get a footing on whats ahead. Filled out paperwork, and file it with fees.

I got arrested years ago for trespassing maybe 16yo and the lawyer wanted $1000 bucks to fight my case. I wasn't stupid then and I'm definitely not stupid now. No pun intended.

 

 

If you can do it without counsel, I agree that you would be a fool to pay thousands to do what you can do yourself. I sincerely hope that you can. That's how the 'justice' system ought to work. 

 

Just know that I support those who are in the same position as me and so I have no reason to see you do anything but succeed. Regardless, it is a bad idea to underestimate the Attorney General's office. Your case isn't going to be handled by your local assistant state's attorney but rather by some AAG (or more commonly, a string of them ) dispatched from regional offices whom do nothing but fight administrative review complaints day in and day out using an array of technical objections and dilatory tactics. The LAST thing they want is the circuit court to reach claims on their merits. Administrative law is a different field of law from criminal law altogether. It's a bit of a bizarro world. If you think about it, administrative agencies themselves are unconstitutional. 

 

Have you ever seen such a flagrant violation of the 'separation of powers' and 'checks and balances' principles?

[RockerXX]

The law clearly states what for and reasons why a person can be denied.

 

I beg to differ, the law list some disqualifying reasons that disqualify before and outside of the board of review, but in no way does it limit what the board itself can deny for if an objection is made by LE...

 

 

 

If the Board determines by a preponderance of the evidence that the applicant poses a danger to himself or herself or others, or is a threat to public safety, then the Board shall affirm the objection of the law enforcement agency or the Department and shall notify the Department that the applicant is ineligible for a license.

 

There is absolutely no criteria established in the law that the board has to adhere to, to make their determination...

Edited by RockerXX, 17 April 2014 - 03:03 PM.

[remchance]

this is what it states for objections from law enforcement

Public Act 098-0063
HB0183 Enrolled LRB098 05760 MGM 35799 b
applicant is a danger to himself or herself or others, or a threat to public safety. The objection shall be made by the chief law enforcement officer of the law enforcement agency, or his or her designee, and must include any information relevant to the objection. If a law enforcement agency submits an objection within 30 days after the entry of an applicant into the database, the Department shall submit the objection and all information related to the application to the Board within 10 days of completing all necessary background checks.
( If an applicant has 5 or more arrests for any reason, that have been entered into the Criminal History Records Information (CHRI) System, within the 7 years preceding the date of application for a license, or has 3 or more arrests within the 7 years preceding the date of application for a license for any combination of gang-related offenses, the Department shall object and submit the applicant's arrest record, the application materials, and any additional information submitted by a law enforcement agency to the Board. For purposes of this subsection, "gang-related offense" is an offense described in Section 12-6.4, Section 24-1.8, Section 25-5, Section 33-4, or Section 33G-4, or in paragraph (1) of subsection (a) of Section 12-6.2, paragraph (2) of subsection
( of Section 16-30, paragraph (2) of subsection ( of Section 31-4, or item (iii) of paragraph (1.5) of subsection
(i) of Section 48-1 of the Criminal Code of 2012.
© The referral of an objection under this Section to the

[remchance]

I didn't put them smiling faces ...???

[InterestedBystander]

I didn't put them smiling faces ...???

 

it's a board shortcut.  (b ) without the space becomes (   Happens often when quoting legislation.

[remchance]

Thanks interestedbystander

Benji start here http://illinoiscarry...showtopic=46231
Then get the petitions on page one on this topic filed out to start.

[RockerXX]

this is what it states for objections from law enforcement
 

 

This is what is says for the LE objection...

 

 

 

(a ) Any law enforcement agency may submit an objection to a license applicant based upon a reasonable suspicion that the applicant is a danger to himself or herself or others, or a threat to public safety.

 

And this is what is says for board confirmation...

 

 

 

If the Board determines by a preponderance of the evidence that the applicant poses a danger to himself or herself or others, or is a threat to public safety, then the Board shall affirm the objection of the law enforcement agency

 

Now as I said there is no criteria established in the law that they must adhere to for them to determine who "poses a danger to himself or herself or others, or is a threat to public safety"

 

It's a wide open blank book...   Are blondes a danger to themselves, some people think so...  Does the neighborhood you reside in or came from  make you a danger to public safety, some most certainly believe so...  And on and on, there is no shortage of claims that can be made since no specific criteria is outlined that must be followed, what determines a danger or public threat?

 

In the end it's simply their opinion based on whatever facts they decide support or not support, or on whatever information they choose to review or whatever information they chose to ignore or whatever they never bothered seeking...  And worse when the information is only provided by one side (the side objecting) what side do you suspect he preponderance of evidence presented will support, even if it's all fabricated and/or false?  It's basically like the joke Grand Jurys have become, but worse...

Edited by RockerXX, 17 April 2014 - 07:14 PM.

[remchance]

Rocker read the law brother after that it says what reasonable suspicion can be. Two lawyers and an NRA lawyer have told me exactly what I am saying. Read the law I posted what comes after.

Also anything bad a Leo has to say about you that's not part of a ticket or case file is slander.

Edited by remchance, 17 April 2014 - 08:52 PM.

[Sfinn]

Just an FYI, anyone appealing your CC denial, make sure to bring FOUR copies of the summons, appeal and any evidence that is part of your appeal to the court. The court keeps three of the copies and gives you the fourth, stamped, for your records.

[jason4126]

Hey Guys, I got denied and received the pose a danger to myself and others letter. So I will embark on this appeal journey. I called the Daley Center Room 802 and was told to bring the denial letters and to make copies for my personal keeping and $279 for the filing fee. I asked if I could get my money back if I won the appeal from the county and she laughed saying this is the court system we keep your money. I am a little confused. Is the appeal forms which were posted by Molly the first step to do and wait for a response or appealing to the Daley Center is the only form of appeal and the forms Molly posted are what the Daley Center has? The Daley Center rep said they have all the forms to fill out in their office by the way. I am going Monday to start the process. Money and time is all I have so I am not worried I want to help everyone out as well since a lot of yous are busy. Retired at 27 seems great, but getting blown up in Fallujah wasn't... Any guidance or comments would help... Ooh Rah!!!

[Dfens]

remchance, on 17 Apr 2014 - 3:51 PM, said:
It does not say that because a person has been arrested for something and not convicted of it, that they are to be denied.
It doesn't say that because a person had a dui 15 years ago that they can be denied.

 

 

 

 

You're right about what it doesn't say.

 

I disagree regarding just what it does say. The process and its criterion are vague, opaque, guarded and seemingly inconsistent with the purported "shall issue" nature of the Act. I believe that this is the fatal infirmity of the Act. Time will tell. Good luck.

[bbewmij]

 

You don't want to miss anyone who is a part of your denial. It can lead to a dismissal of your case.

 

Someone else can provide the actual format used in Illinois courts for this as I'm unaware...  Instead of naming people randomly that you have no idea if they had any involvement or not and missing someone that was involved, you should instead be adding 'John Doe' defendants that you can fill in at a later date...

 

Almost all courts will allow you to simply add 'John Doe' in the list of defendants for one unknown person or for multiples you would add for example 'John Doe 1-25' and this will allow you to fill in up to 25 names at a later date...  Again I'm not sure of the actual and proper format to add John Doe defendants in IL so some further research should be done..

I'm not sure how to effectively research this without becoming frustrated, lol.  I assume we should add "John Doe (1-25)" on the top of the documents in with the ISP and ISP director.  Would we then print 25 seperate Summons' for the John Does? If the paper work isn't 100% formatted correctly, can it be thrown out of court?

Edited by bbewmij, 18 April 2014 - 08:13 PM.

[Dfens]

 

I'm not sure how to effectively research this without becoming frustrated, lol.  I assume we should add "John Doe (1-25)" on the top of the documents in with the ISP and ISP director.  Would we then print 25 seperate Summons' for the John Does? If the paper work isn't 100% formatted correctly, can it be thrown out of court?

 

 

 

I respectfully disagree with those that claim you should be naming John Doe defendants. If you received a denial by way of an objection affirmed by the board, then I believe your beef is with the administrative agency issuing the denial in this context. 

 

While you might take issue with anyone 'involved' in the denial, an administrative review case is not the setting to ask for monetary damages or non administrative review related remedies against those other parties. In the context of an administrative review complaint, the only parties are the aggrieved party and the administrative agency, IMO.

 

I don't know where the idea to serve all these John Doe defendants comes from but can anyone tell me just what is the purpose? Is anyone filing against John Doe defendants willing to share with me what they hope to accomplish by doing that in the context of an administrative review complaint? I just don't get it. I think that a lot of you are going to have to deal with the procedural issues associated with those filings that will distract from what you are trying to do but maybe I am just confused.

 

Thanks in advance for the education.

Edited by Dfens, 19 April 2014 - 08:05 AM.

[remchance]

Defens look at this. Just a basic summary, can be possibly more to the case with ccl. http://www.isba.org/...trativeagencyde