kurt555gs, on 09 August 2012 - 03:07 PM, said:
I want both open and concealed carry. I think it would be easier to pass HB5745 than it would HB148 and a separate open carry bill. There are not nearly as many open carry advocates as concealed carry supporters, so passing a separate open carry bill in Illinois would not have anywhere near the momentum. I have supported concealed carry. I am a member of the usual organizations, each year I donate to Illinoiscarry. Right now, I think it would be easier to pass an open carry outside of home rule bill than it would to pass concealed carry. I think it would even have good support in Cook county as a compromise. Personally, I would prefer HB5745 because it's less divisive. However, as many here have pointed out, we can always incrementally improve any carry bill. Even if we start with limited open carry.
We need to trust what Todd says when it comes to determining what we can do with the votes we have, especially after a win with Moore
. If he says we can't get open carry done because a pivot vote Representative does not want to ever see the open carrying of handguns in their travels because it generally alarms them, then we should take him at his word.
kurt555gs, on 09 August 2012 - 06:49 PM, said:
Mr Peterson. Of course I want concealed carry. I have marched in IGOLD, talked to my Senator and useless rep gone to town hall meetings put on by Molly and the ISRA. Everything that can be expected. However, I want open carry as well. The big three are opposed to it. So, I will do what I can on my own to try to accomplish my goal. Sometimes I get frustrated and type when I shouldn't. However, I will not stop my quest for open carry, in addition to all I have done for concealed carry, even if it isn't the plan of those running this show. Does that clear things up?
That's not what you said earlier (which I quoted directly), but I'll take your concession at this time. Don't get in the way or call for the bill's defeat, and we won't have a problem.
kurt555gs, on 09 August 2012 - 08:49 PM, said:
I know you don't like open carry Bud. Don't do it. But excluding a basic 2nd amendment right is not in the spirit of what many here support. Live and let live.
Let's put aside for a minute the arguments "Open carry is unsafe". That's not the real issue here. We are at loggerheads over what the "right" is.
The right to carry is the basic 2nd amendment right, not the manner in which it is being carried. The language of "time, place, and manner" is in our constitutional jurisprudence, specifically manner, and the state has the authority constitutionally to limit the manner in which we carry (open versus concealed), but they cannot prohibit the right entirely (as they do in IL and DC), or engage in prior restraint which uses arbitrary & subjective criteria (every may-issue state) before one can acquire the ability to exercise the right.
The only state with a "may-issue" concealed carry system that allows open carry without a license is Delaware. Despite some hoop jumping, concealed licenses will be issued to non-problematic individuals because during the hearing with the Prothonotary (the name of the Chief Clerk of the Superior Court), it's clear that they would rather one carry concealed than force someone to OC in Wilmington or Dover. This is why their law has not been changed.
At this current time, concealed carry is considered the fullest right. Concealed carry in some form of another is allowed in 49 states, whereas open carry is only allowed in 43 states (states that are out are CA, MS per AG ruling, NY, SC, FL, AK, TX, OK until Nov 1st, will be #44).
My first preference of course is to put Illinois in the "green" OC category so that we don't have a Florida or Texas problem with accidental exposure causing problems. However, if we have a pivot representative who just has an issue with OC on foot, we could theoretically horse trade other things like taking off some or most of the "exclusion zones" for carrying in return. I would not have a problem with this, and I would be able to sleep at night knowing that my friends and loved ones in Chicago and Illinois generally will be able to effectively carry.
Of course, this will be Todd, Illinois Carry's executive volunteers, and others negotiating this with the Legislature, and not most of us here, and certainly not me. I merely visit Illinois on a yearly basis and soon to be on a more frequent basis for reasons other than guns (save my training course weekend day for a carry license).
Edited by Gray Peterson, 10 August 2012 - 02:24 AM.