Last state to get ccw, first state to get rid of it.

[GP4L]

@cybermgk

 

Yeah, I hear you about us actual 2A supporters - we have not been doing nearly enough. We definitely do need to hammer the 2A hardliners that have been asleep at the wheel for the last several months... But I'm not sure if you totally followed me though...

 

The current state of things surrounding guns is very polarizing, and divisive in general, and it's only been getting worse thanks to all the hypocrites in Hollywood and much of the moronic leftist media outlets. Swing voters in IL don't care about gun stuff the way we do. In fact I'm sure many of them don't like guns at all. Hillary beat Trump in IL by almost a million votes, so keep that in mind, and forget about what happened in states that are actual swing states statistically - even though I'm sure 2A stuff had something to do with that outcome. Anyways, a narrative we ALL care about is taxes, pensions, jobs, etc. - Money things - and that's where the fear mongering should be VASTLY focused, IMO.

[EngChi]

was not the Priztler the guy who colluded with Blagoevich in attempt to buy an office already? to me that smells corrupt as f%ck.

 

I agree that would be plenty of people who do not care about guns either way but would care about more of the same corrupt machine

[Buzzard]

was not the Priztler the guy who colluded with Blagoevich in attempt to buy an office already? to me that smells corrupt as f%ck.

 

I agree that would be plenty of people who do not care about guns either way but would care about more of the same corrupt machine

 

I'm not speaking of "Blue Dog" Democrats here, but I believe many people that call themselves Democrats, the leftists, could care less that Pritzker tried to buy the office from Blago after Obama left. Rauner was running a commercial that had an FBI recording of Blago discussing the matter with Pritzker on the phone! That commercial ran many times around our neck of the woods. An Pritzker STILL won the primary! How do you think Madigan stays in office?! The Dems don't care about corruption! The Dems are only concerned with electing Dems. My daughter-in-law likes Pritzker...and she saw those commercials! That's how I know!

[TRJ]

If you had enough money in Illinois, you could always carry.

It was just prohibitively expensive. Most of the jewelers I met with carried legally in the 90's.

If you had money and could show cause, carrying a pistol was not an issue just expensive.

With the passage by a court order it was no longer a cause issue.

It became a right issue and the price to be able to carry dropped A LOT.

If he doesn't have a grabber or choke to death then really look at it going to $1000 a year easily.

It was more then that 20 years ago and you needed justified cause on many forms.

Like I regularly carry more then $500,000 in diamonds or I walk out of Broadway Bank with $200,000 in cash.

I bet most of you didn't know that.

I doubt that it will go that high. They'd get sued. And the court might still look back at the original decision that mandated carry be permissible, and sanction them right back to where the original law was or more. $100 a year, maybe. Training every year? Even more likely because some people have money but time is hard to come by. That initial 16 hours of training has very little to do with training and more to do with time wasted where time is an important asset. The expense just makes it a larger obstacle for people with time and no money. Then there's the working joes who have little of either one.

[Mr. Fife]

 

The reason that Illinois is being flooded with these nonsense bills is because we already have a fairly Nazi like system in place with FOID and waiting periods.

I thought it was to distract from sex scandals down in Springfield. It looks like it's working.

[Jacksinthe]

Personally, I think a national law across the board that all states have to comply with would be best. No more states rights on anything dealing with firearms. You'd have to fight 1 beast and direct ALL of your energy at 1 element vs fighting 50 entities AND the fed at the same time.

[Twostarrz]

Personally, I think a national law across the board that all states have to comply with would be best. No more states rights on anything dealing with firearms. You'd have to fight 1 beast and direct ALL of your energy at 1 element vs fighting 50 entities AND the fed at the same time.

There is a national law. It’s called the 2nd amendment.

[Jacksinthe]

 

Personally, I think a national law across the board that all states have to comply with would be best. No more states rights on anything dealing with firearms. You'd have to fight 1 beast and direct ALL of your energy at 1 element vs fighting 50 entities AND the fed at the same time.

There is a national law. It’s called the 2nd amendment.

And how is that working out for the states? Hint: it isn't.

 

That's my point. We can't let states continue to decide for themselves how much of that amendment they will comply with. Imagine if every firearm group and owner could focus on ONE entity instead of trying to keep them at bay with one hand and fighting off 50 more with the other.

 

The 2nd isn't an across-the-board right. It NEEDS to be.

[cls74]

Would also be nice if the SCOTUS would start taking up 2A cases

[Twostarrz]

 

 

Personally, I think a national law across the board that all states have to comply with would be best. No more states rights on anything dealing with firearms. You'd have to fight 1 beast and direct ALL of your energy at 1 element vs fighting 50 entities AND the fed at the same time.

There is a national law. It’s called the 2nd amendment.

And how is that working out for the states? Hint: it isn't.

That's my point. We can't let states continue to decide for themselves how much of that amendment they will comply with. Imagine if every firearm group and owner could focus on ONE entity instead of trying to keep them at bay with one hand and fighting off 50 more with the other.

The 2nd isn't an across-the-board right. It NEEDS to be.

That is exactly my point. If the inalienable right to keep and bear arms can be infringed upon then what other laws, bills, resolutions, execute orders, etc... will hold water? Hint... none. We the people have slowly become we the subjects. I don’t have any solutions to offer.

[sctman800]

I don't see CCW being lost as such, remember we didn't get it through the legislative process it was a mandate from the court. That being said I can see GFZ's and other restrictions being made to make it more difficult to carry. Jim.

[Twostarrz]

I don't see CCW being lost as such, remember we didn't get it through the legislative process it was a mandate from the court. That being said I can see GFZ's and other restrictions being made to make it more difficult to carry. Jim.

If you maintain a CCW permit but the state makes every public place a “gun free zone” then do you really have the right to conceal carry? Other than in your yard or car? Illinois is pathetic and I’m afraid will get far worse before it gets better. I haven’t given up but how do you vote out a political party that will “create” enough votes from either the grave or south of the border to stay in power? The only real but unrealistic way to get rid of a corrupt government is to forcefully remove them and there just aren’t enough ready for that step yet. In my opinion the ones who have had enough are simply leaving Illinois to itself and moving to a conservative part of the country. We are in the side that is ready to pack up and get out.

[Jacksinthe]

Personally, I think a national law across the board that all states have to comply with would be best. No more states rights on anything dealing with firearms. You'd have to fight 1 beast and direct ALL of your energy at 1 element vs fighting 50 entities AND the fed at the same time.

 

There is a national law. Its called the 2nd amendment.

And how is that working out for the states? Hint: it isn't.

That's my point. We can't let states continue to decide for themselves how much of that amendment they will comply with. Imagine if every firearm group and owner could focus on ONE entity instead of trying to keep them at bay with one hand and fighting off 50 more with the other.

The 2nd isn't an across-the-board right. It NEEDS to be.

 

That is exactly my point. If the inalienable right to keep and bear arms can be infringed upon then what other laws, bills, resolutions, execute orders, etc... will hold water? Hint... none. We the people have slowly become we the subjects. I dont have any solutions to offer.

 

You're not getting my point. At all.

 

The problem we have now IS infringement. We need to make it so states CANNOT infringe across the baord.

 

As it stands states can do what they want to a point. What makes a person in one state more important than another? Nothing. So why do we allow states to treat people as such? We shouldn't be.

 

The states should be required to follow the law. No national mag capacity ban? Can't do it on a state level. Constitutional carry on a federal level? States can't make their own rules.

 

That's my point. States are already infringing. We should be working towards having forced compliance nationwide.

[TRJ]

Forced compliance nation wide is great until their tyrants get control of the three branches. Then we'd be squeaking for local control.

[GP4L]

 

I don't see CCW being lost as such, remember we didn't get it through the legislative process it was a mandate from the court. That being said I can see GFZ's and other restrictions being made to make it more difficult to carry. Jim.

If you maintain a CCW permit but the state makes every public place a “gun free zone” then do you really have the right to conceal carry? Other than in your yard or car? Illinois is pathetic and I’m afraid will get far worse before it gets better. I haven’t given up but how do you vote out a political party that will “create” enough votes from either the grave or south of the border to stay in power? The only real but unrealistic way to get rid of a corrupt government is to forcefully remove them and there just aren’t enough ready for that step yet. In my opinion the ones who have had enough are simply leaving Illinois to itself and moving to a conservative part of the country. We are in the side that is ready to pack up and get out.

 

Eh, consider this: Every IL governor for the last 30+ years, won the election with less than 2 million votes. There's more than 2 million FOID holders in IL alone. Combine that with IL GOP voters that don't have a FOID, and it should be an easy win if WE (2A people in IL) maxed out our voter turnout this year. Turnout is obviously a problem both sides of the isle have, but if we corrected our side's turnout FIRST, we'd easily win the governors seat, and maybe even flip a district or two in Chicago. Also - the Dem primary showcased that more than HALF of Dem voters did not like their party's "top candidate." Some number of swing voters will be voting for Rauner, even though probably most of them cast a Dem vote in the primary, just like in '14. So, there's a little hope. WE (2A people in IL) desperately need to do our part.

[Twostarrz]

I will continue to vote conservative pro 2A until such a time that we can move. That being said I am personally tired of having to fight for inalienable rights and having to prove innocence. This is the new Illinois way and I’m tired of it. Also tired of shoveling snow so there’s that.

Trying to get rights back from ANY branch of government is like putting the toothpaste back.

[Mr. Fife]

Before guns were allowed in Chicago, people used guns to defend themselves and were never charged. They were afraid to charge people because they knew they would lose in court and precedent would be set.

 

At this point, criminals carrying guns without permits have charges dropped if they were simply defending themselves.

 

If they get rid of CCW, all it will take is to charge one person involved in a good shoot while defending themselves. No jury of your peers is going to convict you for defending your life. Which judge is going to try to take apart Judge Posner's decision to infringe on our Constitutional Right?

 

Stupid speelchick.

[Brownshoe]

One pitch that seems to be working is the Pritzker-Madigan corruption pitch. Berrios was tossed out, largely because he is, and is seen as, corrupt. I know several Democrats who will vote for Rauner, because 1) they mostly agree with him on social issues, but 2) Because Pritzker is being supported by Madigan solely to allow him to continue to steal money from the city, county, and state. Democrats can live with a centrist Republican like Rauner, because Pritzker is far worse.

 

I don't give Rauner much of a chance, but the pro-2A voting block is strong, and nobody actually likes Priztker. People were passionate about Biss, but JBP is the classic vote for nobody candidate.

[Jeffrey]

Posters all over the city with Jelly Belly's face side by side with Blago, Madigan, etc. all part of the machine. Make it well known who his buddies are.

[Ultralisk]

We really need to band together. The Dems are always mobilizing and doing whatever they can. It feels like we are always watching stuff happen.

I’m a democrat. I was born in crook Chicago, my fault right? These politics are terrible D or R. I’m almost ready to not vote in the general election. Don’t really see an option here.

[MSD]

 

We really need to band together. The Dems are always mobilizing and doing whatever they can. It feels like we are always watching stuff happen.

I’m a democrat. I was born in crook Chicago, my fault right? These politics are terrible D or R. I’m almost ready to not vote in the general election. Don’t really see an option here.

 

If you don't vote you don't get to complain. Voting is a right as much as the bill of rights. The choices may not be good, but it is still our responsibility to vote. Choose the lesser of two evils if you must. Then go out and either run for office or get behind someone who will that you support and believe in and work for them.

 

The disgust or apathy of the middle of the political spectrum is partially at fault for the fringes of the political spectrum controlling the debate and getting elected leading to the political polarization of the USA. That coupled with those with the most money win.

[Ultralisk]

Would also be nice if the SCOTUS would start taking up 2A cases

There is a reason they aren’t and it’s easy to speculate. What if the US moves into a climate where striking down the 2A is acceptable? They don’t want to set precedent and defend it now when they could possibly get rid of it later. Let’s be real here, all of these people making these decisions have armed guards and they don’t want to see a regular joe armed. The SCOTUS has been red for a while now so if they truly cared about “defending rights”, why would they chose not to hear any of the cases? That’s a chess move. Powerful people and decades long agendas don’t want the 2A concreted in by SCOTUS. Amongst themselves they laugh at this stuff.

[Ashdump]

 

We really need to band together. The Dems are always mobilizing and doing whatever they can. It feels like we are always watching stuff happen.

Im a democrat. I was born in crook Chicago, my fault right? These politics are terrible D or R. Im almost ready to not vote in the general election. Dont really see an option here.

You'd better check the democrat platform on gun control. Either the 2A is not real important to you, or you are terribly misinformed about the democrat party. Pritzker is making no bones about the fact that he will be pushing for gun bans. Also, there is the fact nobody seems to want to address, the democrat party is single handedly responsible for the state of affairs in IL. Rauner has been here for only 3 years and can hardly do anything to stop the damage, yet somehow he gets the blame for decades of democrat caused destruction.

 

ETA, I'm not giving the republicans a pass here, because there are plenty of terrible examples. However, they cannot be blamed for the mess we have. Also you can always point out to them that protecting the Bill of Rights is part of their platform.

[cybermgk]

@cybermgk

 

Yeah, I hear you about us actual 2A supporters - we have not been doing nearly enough. We definitely do need to hammer the 2A hardliners that have been asleep at the wheel for the last several months... But I'm not sure if you totally followed me though...

 

The current state of things surrounding guns is very polarizing, and divisive in general, and it's only been getting worse thanks to all the hypocrites in Hollywood and much of the moronic leftist media outlets. Swing voters in IL don't care about gun stuff the way we do. In fact I'm sure many of them don't like guns at all. Hillary beat Trump in IL by almost a million votes, so keep that in mind, and forget about what happened in states that are actual swing states statistically - even though I'm sure 2A stuff had something to do with that outcome. Anyways, a narrative we ALL care about is taxes, pensions, jobs, etc. - Money things - and that's where the fear mongering should be VASTLY focused, IMO.

Oh, I got that. I agreed AND, just saying we need to motivate all our 2A friendly Rs and Ds via fear if you will.

[cybermgk]

If you had enough money in Illinois, you could always carry.

It was just prohibitively expensive. Most of the jewelers I met with carried legally in the 90's.

If you had money and could show cause, carrying a pistol was not an issue just expensive.

With the passage by a court order it was no longer a cause issue.

It became a right issue and the price to be able to carry dropped A LOT.

If he doesn't have a grabber or choke to death then really look at it going to $1000 a year easily.

It was more then that 20 years ago and you needed justified cause on many forms.

Like I regularly carry more then $500,000 in diamonds or I walk out of Broadway Bank with $200,000 in cash.

I bet most of you didn't know that.

Several SCOTUS/Court rulings won't allow that. Again, if they make it effectively a ban for the average person, or effectively make it so the average person can't defend themselves, then it violates these rulings.

[cybermgk]

 

I don't see CCW being lost as such, remember we didn't get it through the legislative process it was a mandate from the court. That being said I can see GFZ's and other restrictions being made to make it more difficult to carry. Jim.

If you maintain a CCW permit but the state makes every public place a “gun free zone” then do you really have the right to conceal carry? Other than in your yard or car? Illinois is pathetic and I’m afraid will get far worse before it gets better. I haven’t given up but how do you vote out a political party that will “create” enough votes from either the grave or south of the border to stay in power? The only real but unrealistic way to get rid of a corrupt government is to forcefully remove them and there just aren’t enough ready for that step yet. In my opinion the ones who have had enough are simply leaving Illinois to itself and moving to a conservative part of the country. We are in the side that is ready to pack up and get out.

 

Heller pretty much speaks on effectively that, and rules that that is unconstitutional.

[cybermgk]

 

Would also be nice if the SCOTUS would start taking up 2A cases

There is a reason they aren’t and it’s easy to speculate. What if the US moves into a climate where striking down the 2A is acceptable? They don’t want to set precedent and defend it now when they could possibly get rid of it later. Let’s be real here, all of these people making these decisions have armed guards and they don’t want to see a regular joe armed. The SCOTUS has been red for a while now so if they truly cared about “defending rights”, why would they chose not to hear any of the cases? That’s a chess move. Powerful people and decades long agendas don’t want the 2A concreted in by SCOTUS. Amongst themselves they laugh at this stuff.

 

Until, the Gorsuch Confirmation, there was no certainty in how a ruling would go. It would be BAD to try a 2A case and have bad, anti precedent set. Even after, it isn't slamdunk certain, with a conservative majority on SCOTUS, Look at Heller, it left it open for States and municipalities the ability to ban some amount of guns types (what and how many, is still not really solidified).. Ginsburg and Breyer are both antigun AND 80ish. One or both are very possibly replaced by Trump in first 4. Assuming one of them, or better both are replaced with 2A friendly justices, then I think we see SCOTUS take up quite a few. I think the Justices on our side are waiting on this.

 

BUT, they may not need to. There are a lot of District and Appeals court openings still not filled by Trump (albeit somewhat because of Dem resistance). Fill those, and perhaps challenges never need to even go to SCOTUS.

[GP4L]

 

@cybermgk

 

Yeah, I hear you about us actual 2A supporters - we have not been doing nearly enough. We definitely do need to hammer the 2A hardliners that have been asleep at the wheel for the last several months... But I'm not sure if you totally followed me though...

 

The current state of things surrounding guns is very polarizing, and divisive in general, and it's only been getting worse thanks to all the hypocrites in Hollywood and much of the moronic leftist media outlets. Swing voters in IL don't care about gun stuff the way we do. In fact I'm sure many of them don't like guns at all. Hillary beat Trump in IL by almost a million votes, so keep that in mind, and forget about what happened in states that are actual swing states statistically - even though I'm sure 2A stuff had something to do with that outcome. Anyways, a narrative we ALL care about is taxes, pensions, jobs, etc. - Money things - and that's where the fear mongering should be VASTLY focused, IMO.

Oh, I got that. I agreed AND, just saying we need to motivate all our 2A friendly Rs and Ds via fear if you will.

 

Gotcha. Yeah, like I said in another tread (or maybe it was here) - over the last 30+ years, the IL governor seat has been won with less than 2 million votes for the winner. Being that there's well over 2 million active FOID's alone, if we (IL gun owners) maxed our turnout in November........ Also, Jumbo Blago had 573k Dems vote for him, but had 695k Dems vote against...

 

This is a scarier version of 2014 all over again. The number of Dems that swing their vote is definitely going to matter, but not as much as the number of GOP voters that actually show up.

[capotwosix]

Regardless of Rauner betraying his base on several occasions, I will never understand the "pro-gun" people who would rather vote for the gun-grabber (JBP) over him. Rauner turned out to be just another politician, big deal, they're all like that. Make promise they don't keep, nothing new, welcome to politics. At least Rauner is the better of two evils when it comes to conservative views and especially pro-gun legislation. Meeting with Molly B and IC to talk about the issues with ILCCW is a big deal. Plus any republican Governor is going to have a hard time in this state with the low life socialist anti-american dems that he has to work with. Anyway, if you "pro-gunners" do decide to give your vote to JB out of spite, that's your choice and I respect it, but man, I hope you're ready for the storm to follow, and I hope to not see you complaining when our rights are being thrown out the window, and this state is completely overrun with illegals. JB will turn Illinois into a sanctuary state. There's a lot more at stake here than just the 2nd amendment.

[G214me]

Regardless of Rauner betraying his base on several occasions, I will never understand the "pro-gun" people who would rather vote for the gun-grabber (JBP) over him. Rauner turned out to be just another politician, big deal, they're all like that. Make promise they don't keep, nothing new, welcome to politics. At least Rauner is the better of two evils when it comes to conservative views and especially "pro-gun" legislation. Meeting with Molly B and IC to talk about the issues with ILCCW is a big deal. Plus any republican Governor is going to have a hard time in this state with the low life socialist anti-american dems that he has to work with. Anyway, if you "pro-gunners" do decide to give your vote to JB out of spite, that's your choice and I respect it, but man, I hope you're ready for the storm to follow, and I hope to not see you complaining when our rights are being thrown out the window, and this state is completely overrun with illegals. JB will turn Illinois into a sanctuary state. There's a lot more at stake here than just the 2nd amendment.

EXCELLENT !!!! And these are the things we need to preach to EVERYONE we can, especially those that don't get involved or plan to vote, the unsure, fence sitters, etc. Highlight every single thing you can that Gas Bag will make worse, raising taxes massively to fund stupid things, connections to Blowjobavich, being a Madigan stooge, whatever else you can come up with. Remember 100 out of 102 counties went for Rauner last time and this time Gas Bag will be campaigning on many leftist issues that lots of downstate people don't find appealing, especially gun control / bans that have proven to be losers for the Democrats. Quinn didn't get hardcore leftist like Gas Bag probably will. Nothing to lose so go for it.