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#1 Terry 9595

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 01:54 AM

I have deaf lady wanting to get her CCL.

I dont know sign language, she says she can read lips.
BUT, I move around when training a lot.

Am I on the hook to supply a interpreter? Can I demand she gets one? ($3500 for 16 hours)

How do I know she understands.

Best answer would be someone you know gives them.

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#2 bmyers

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 05:39 AM

My question, how do you know that your students normally understand the information? Do you give them a quiz? Do you just present the information and then do the qualification?

 

Where an instructor can get into trouble is if you do nothing to insure that your students understand your information, but then do something to require a hearing impaired student prove that he/she understands, then you are discriminating. 

 

Yes, my daughter and my sister are hearing impaired. My sister does a very good job of reading lips and many don't realize that she wears two hearing aids.


Edited by bmyers, 25 August 2019 - 05:41 AM.

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#3 mikew

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 07:49 AM

 ($3500 for 16 hours)

 

I hired an interpreter for IGOLD this year.

As it turns out, the number of deaf IGOLD attendees is very very low, but that could change now. "-)

 

where are your classes held?

 

I learned about the registry of interpreters and was able to get one and the price was manageable.

 

 

I used the Illinois registry to find an interpreter for IGOLD:

 

https://www2.illinoi...ectoryHome.aspx

 

One the way to finding that again today, I found a national registry as well:

 

https://myaccount.ri...rch/Member.aspx



#4 Davey

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 10:45 AM

Use something like Dragon naturally speaking. It takes spoken word and converts to visible text. May be a lower cost or free alternative. You’d have to give her a way to view the text though.

#5 mauserme

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 10:58 AM

I have deaf lady wanting to get her CCL.

I dont know sign language, she says she can read lips.
BUT, I move around when training a lot.

Am I on the hook to supply a interpreter? Can I demand she gets one? ($3500 for 16 hours)

How do I know she understands.

Best answer would be someone you know gives them.


Were you able to accommodate your blind student's needs? It seems like being deaf might be less challenging than being blind in this case.

#6 borgranta

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 12:45 PM

I have deaf lady wanting to get her CCL.

I dont know sign language, she says she can read lips.
BUT, I move around when training a lot.

Am I on the hook to supply a interpreter? Can I demand she gets one? ($3500 for 16 hours)

How do I know she understands.

Best answer would be someone you know gives them.

Instead of an interpreter perhaps you could make a transcript ahead of time that you can provide her with that way it would be cheaper than paying for an interpreter.  For that matter everyone can be provided with a transcript that way licensees can refer back to the transcript to refresh their memory at any time in the future.


Edited by borgranta, 25 August 2019 - 12:45 PM.

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#7 Quiet Observer

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 03:16 PM

 

I have deaf lady wanting to get her CCL.

I dont know sign language, she says she can read lips.
BUT, I move around when training a lot.

Am I on the hook to supply a interpreter? Can I demand she gets one? ($3500 for 16 hours)

How do I know she understands.

Best answer would be someone you know gives them.


Were you able to accommodate your blind student's needs? It seems like being deaf might be less challenging than being blind in this case.

 

 

The next question about a "complicated student" may be, "I have an armless student.  How can he qualify at the range?".  

 

As bmeyers indicated, there is no knowledge testing required.  Others have suggested providing written information.  The full text of the law is online.  There are numerous books and articles available on the subject of self-defense and lethal force.  It has been over 5 years since I took my original class.  I do not believe anything was introduced of which I was not already aware. 

 

If the woman functions in the world, she should be able to benefit from the class. 



#8 borgranta

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 03:41 PM

I have deaf lady wanting to get her CCL.

I dont know sign language, she says she can read lips.
BUT, I move around when training a lot.

Am I on the hook to supply a interpreter? Can I demand she gets one? ($3500 for 16 hours)

How do I know she understands.

Best answer would be someone you know gives them.

It just occurred to me that charging her $3500 more may be an act of discrimination.  If you must include an interpreter for her you may have to raise the rates of your class for everyone in order to absorb the cost of the interpreter.  It would cost an additional $350 per student for a class 10 or for a class of 20 it would cost an extra $175 per student.  Depending on how big the class is the amount of extra cost per student would be barely noticeable.


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#9 RandyP

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 04:44 PM

IF a prospective 'deaf' student affirms they can handle a class taught only by spoken means? What's the problem with accepting their money and letting them take the class?

 

On a related note, it is slightly dismaying that a printed transcript or at least a highlights version of the class isn't already offered to all who have plunked down the penalty fee for exercising a Constitutional Right.


Edited by RandyP, 25 August 2019 - 04:45 PM.

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#10 Smallbore

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 05:11 PM

I have old students who can't hear worth a darn. I empathize because I am there. On the firing line I use simple hand signs.
In the classroom I use "death by power point".
I bet the deft concentrate more than most of the class.

#11 Terry 9595

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 05:23 PM

There has been several questions and comments directed at my post. (Thank to those that are trying to help)

I teach out of Lyons, Midwest Guns

The price of $3500 is what was quoted to us by an interpreter.

The $3500 is not what I charge. We charge $175 for 16 hour Class. I can not charge more then that to her.

I have handouts covering all the laws. But I don't lecture.

My classes are more conversational. I can't make a handout for questions that will come up.

How do I know if the students understand my course? By participation in the conversation.

Some comments sound like I should not care if the student understands what i am teaching! My job is not standing in front of students lecturing. My job is to teach! I am not doing my job if one student doesn't understand, that's why I teach.

I am on medical leave right now. It gives me a few days to contact the list and web pages that have been spoken of.

On thing that I have been able to get going is she has never shot, so she will go through a free intro class. I can tell from that class how much of a challenge I will have. I will be able to determine if I can teach her and or how does it affect the safety in the class.

Thanks everyone

Terry K. Bell

 

Member of NRA

Member of ISRA

State of Illinois Licensed Firearm Instructor - 263.000152

State Police Certified Instructor for FCCL

Utah Firearm Instructor  I111295

NRA Law Enforcement Instructor- Handgun, Shotgun and Patrol Rifle

NRA Instructor for

        Certified Home Safety

        Certified Pistol

         Personal Protection In The Home

         Certified Shotgun

         Refuse To Be A Victim

 

NRA Chief Range Safety Officer

Licensed Private Detective

License Security Contractor

 

 

 

 


#12 mikew

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 08:51 PM

The price of $3500 is what was quoted to us by an interpreter.

THAT interpreter does not want to be in a gun class, I could be wrong.

 

If you want I can ask my deaf IGOLD contact what he thinks.

 

And I suggest try a few on the Illinois registry.
One caveat with that is that I was trying to find one two weeks before IGOLD.  It took a day and time is money.



#13 domin8

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Posted 26 August 2019 - 12:10 AM

Maybe there's somebody who knows sign language that's also interested a FCCL? First thing I'd do is start asking my church if there's somebody who knows sign language. Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
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#14 domin8

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Posted 26 August 2019 - 12:13 AM

If you hire an interpreter, make sure it's not this guy. https://www.nytimes....reter-irma.html Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
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#15 mikew

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Posted 26 August 2019 - 02:30 AM

Nor the guy that did Nelson Mandela's funeral.

 

https://www.nbcnews....-flna2D11723934



#16 1911

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Posted 26 August 2019 - 07:34 AM

Speaking as guy who is disabled and been in a wheelchair for over thirty years.

Contact the individual ahead of time and ask them specifically what is best for them. Try to have this conversation face to face but at least do it via text message. Most deaf people that I have been around recently are wizards with texting.

If you feel that they need any extra material or instruction do it before class an hour before, a day before or week before is even fine, so they can read and comprehend the information. This will also give them additional time to ask questions if needed. Do not do it after class unless they requested it. Because the student should be allowed the same sense of accomplishment at the conclusion of the class as any other student.

Do not hire an interpreter unless there is no other way of making it work.

As for your part during the class, rather than sit directly in the center of the class body, try sitting towards one end. Have the student sit at the opposite end of the front row so that most of your conversation and actions will be down wind so to speak. By positioning yourself closer to the opposite end you probably wont ever turn away from the student for more than a moment or two.

This is how I positioned myself when I took my class and I could see 99% of everything the instructor did.

Just my thoughts take them for what there worth.
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#17 Quiet Observer

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Posted 26 August 2019 - 08:16 AM

1911 gives good suggestions above. 

Contact the lady in question and find out from her what assistance she may need. 

Apparently she does function well in the verbal society without having a ASL interpreter wherever she goes.  

Not every member in any type of class clearly hears the questions of other members.  Usually the teacher/instructor will repeat the question for everyone's benefit before answering it. 

You and she can determine the best place for her to sit.  You may want to move around in the class less than you usually do. 

The main thing is to face the audience who you talk.  This is a good practice for any type of public speaking.



#18 Birdhunter1

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Posted 27 August 2019 - 06:54 AM

Another thought might be to have someone type out the words spoken where the deaf student can read them.  I took ASL in college as a foreign language and while I could have attempted to do it I woudl not be anywhere near the level of an interpreter, and now 15 years later I can't even sign my name.

 

I did not know an interpreter would run $3500 for 16 hours, if I knew that rate I would have said heck with many goals back in college and focused on that, at the worst your only overhead cost would be a suit and tie and a little bit of travel.

 

The speech to text idea might work, but I have found with my iphone it ends up making me look very illiterate, but it might get the point across. 

 

If I were teaching something to a deaf student with the knowledge of American sign language that I have I would probably opt for a typed version, probably something like a laptop on a desk and the student sitting next to someone typing it.



#19 Terry 9595

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Posted 27 August 2019 - 08:28 AM

Thank you

Terry K. Bell

 

Member of NRA

Member of ISRA

State of Illinois Licensed Firearm Instructor - 263.000152

State Police Certified Instructor for FCCL

Utah Firearm Instructor  I111295

NRA Law Enforcement Instructor- Handgun, Shotgun and Patrol Rifle

NRA Instructor for

        Certified Home Safety

        Certified Pistol

         Personal Protection In The Home

         Certified Shotgun

         Refuse To Be A Victim

 

NRA Chief Range Safety Officer

Licensed Private Detective

License Security Contractor

 

 

 

 


#20 Birdhunter1

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Posted 28 August 2019 - 06:46 AM

Another thought might be to ask the student if they bring their own interpreter you'd cut them a deal on cost to train them as well.






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