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Your opinion on best (suburban) home defense weapon and ammo.


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#1 2smartby1/2

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 01:19 PM

Just curious on what you would use if you had a "dedicated" HD weapon.   A true handgun? Shotgun? AR platform? 

 

 

I've been debating on building a new AR pistol in .300 Blackout simply for poops and giggles.  I don't need it, I have no particular use for it, and I would not even shoot it much (.223/5.56 ammo is half the price).  But a pistol build with a light, Law Tactical folding stock and an 8.5" barrel would be a neat build, and would make a great PDW. However, I would worry about over-penetration, even with good hollow points.  Maybe a subsonic round? (Still too heavy?)

 

I've also looked closely at taking a Mossberg 500 Thunder Ranch edition and modifying it a bit.  An 18.5" pump with a breacher barrel, light, sling, and a shorter stock.  Still debating on a pistol grip or not (would always have a stock). 

 

A good old fashioned handgun with a light on it? 

 

 

Everything will be "loud"...which one is the least likely to ruin my kids hearing?

 

Thanks

 



#2 DD123

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 01:31 PM

My go to HD defense gun is a 9mm pistol with a light.  It's loaded with 147 grain +p HST's.  

 

I'm not a fan of shotguns for HD because of the over penetration issues.  If you use slugs, those are the worst.  00 buck is just as bad.  

 

People like 223 because it tumbles after striking drywall, but F your ears if you're shooting that indoors lol.  

 

300 blk in pistol format is not bad, but I'm not overly familiar with how the bullets react to drywall.  If you go this route, just make sure that you're buying a round loaded with a quality hunting bullet that is designed to mushroom upon impact.  

 

For me personally, I am far more comfortable with a pistol inside the confines of a home, with all of the tight corners and stuff.  At typical HD distances, I can keep all rounds center mass and firing them rapidly.  You're damaging your hearing with all of these options, so it's always a good idea to keep some electronic ear pro near you HD gun.  The benefits are hearing protection, as well as amplified hearing due to the electronics.  


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#3 tricolor

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 01:32 PM

Some people call me old fashioned, but I believe that a lever action rifle in 357 or 44 magnum to be about perfect.  They are easy to use, easy to teach family members on and they hit hard with 16 to 20 inch barrels.  Much more effective than a pistol and easier to use, lower recoil and higher capacity than a shotgun and simpler than a semi auto. 



#4 richp

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 01:33 PM

Hi,

I am a Remington 870 guy, and always have had 12 gauges. Tried one Mossy, but the different controls weren't for me after all those years.

Having said that, inside a house, a 20 gauge just might be an option if you could find one with a nice short barrel. That has crossed my mind because a 12 really seems to be too much for my wife to comfortably deal with.

FWIW.

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#5 cybermgk

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 01:36 PM

Don't know if they are perfect, but, these are my primary options, in order of preference:

 

Ruger PC Carbine, loaded with HST 9mm HP w/ red dot - Small, can maneuver through the house.  I can put multiple rounds on target with negligible kick.  Can be fired one handed.  If I ever move, can take a noise suppressor.

 

Ar15 loaded with 40 gr nosler tipped rds -  almost all of the same pluses as Ruger, though harder to fire one handed.

 

Glock 19 loaded similar to PC Carbine

 

My hoouse has enough ambient light, I don't use a light, so as to not say "bad guy, here I am".


Edited by cybermgk, 13 September 2018 - 01:38 PM.

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#6 cybermgk

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 01:40 PM

Some people call me old fashioned, but I believe that a lever action rifle in 357 or 44 magnum to be about perfect.  They are easy to use, easy to teach family members on and they hit hard with 16 to 20 inch barrels.  Much more effective than a pistol and easier to use, lower recoil and higher capacity than a shotgun and simpler than a semi auto. 

LOL, have one loaded 2ith 357 mag HPs right next to the ruger and ar above.  Could grab any when needed.


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#7 Lou

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 01:57 PM

I’ve got a Mossberg 12 GA pump loaded with reduced recoil 00 Buck.

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#8 TRJ

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 02:19 PM

1) A braced sub-gun type 9mm pistol with a red dot and a light. Electronic ear-pro kept close by.

 

2) A 9mm pistol with a light and RMR type red dot. Electronic ear pro kept close by.

 

Preferred ammunition is either Federal HST or Winchester Ranger T. 



#9 cybermgk

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 02:27 PM

1) A braced sub-gun type 9mm pistol with a red dot and a light. Electronic ear-pro kept close by.

 

2) A 9mm pistol with a light and RMR type red dot. Electronic ear pro kept close by.

 

Preferred ammunition is either Federal HST or Winchester Ranger T. 

Yea, I keep electroninc ears near by as well.  Good point.


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#10 chicagoresident

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 02:30 PM

Unless you live on a big piece of property you really don't want a rifle caliber anything for defense against intruders.

I built the smallest lightest 300blk pistol with this intention and the risk of overpenetration is too much, even with expanding rounds.

Your best bet is to look at handgun caliber PDW's or just a full sized handgun with a big magazine.

If you really want to stick to the AR platform look at the 458 socom or 50 beowulf, ballistics are very similar to the s&w 460 and 500 revolver rounds. But you only get 10 shots, so diminishing returns.

I use my EDC double stack compact with a 20 round magazine swapped in when it goes in a quicksafe.

You can get excellent capacity in a handgun with one hand free and maneuverability that you can't get in a rifle. The law as I recall is iffy on using real PDW's for self defense so a large capticity handgun like the glock 17 and a 33 round magazine can't be beat. Plus they have factory optics mounts for a red dot.

I'm not a huge fan of the thinking behind weapon lights, in home defense situations I think it's a bad idea to have your light also be the barrel of your gun. It forces you to violate 2 of the 4 golden rules of guns and many police departments are finding officers violating 3 of the 4 with the switch near the trigger. The LAPD switched to m&p's with lights and saw their negligent discharge and accidental death rate go way up.

Edited by chicagoresident, 13 September 2018 - 02:30 PM.


#11 GWBH

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 02:41 PM

My Kimber Crimson Pro Carry in .45 ACP - love the laser grip sight. Hornady Critical Defense ammunition.

You can fire it from any position and it hits where the laser dot is located.


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#12 GWBH

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 02:45 PM

My Kimber Crimson Pro Carry in .45 ACP - love the laser grip sight. Hornady Critical Defense ammunition.

You can fire it from any position and it hits where the laser dot is located.

Don't use a light - personal opinion about giving away my position.


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#13 thepointbeing

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 02:48 PM

For urban home defense use -

 

Firearm: DA/SA semiauto compact or full-size handgun, 9mm or .45 ACP, tritium night sights, no light or laser mounted on gun

 

HP Ammunition: Federal HST, Hornady Critical Defense, or Speer Gold Dot. Standard or +P velocity (definitely no +P+)


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#14 papa

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 02:51 PM

If you go with a shotgun I wouldn't use anything larger than #4 buck for house defense.  As stated by others #00 or slug would be way to much penetration.



#15 Odinson

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 02:51 PM

TRJ started a thread 'long eye relief scope for scout rifle' then he pointed to a webpage that also sells shotguns - that got me to this beauty that I am now eyeballing for HD:

 

https://swfa.com/fir...s/shotguns.html
Remington Model 870 TAC-14 12 Gauge 
Black Oxide- 4rd- 14" Barrel- Bead Front Sight

Stock# REM81230
$349.95

 

Thanks guys.  I really thought my 'arsenal' was complete.



#16 InterestedBystander

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 03:00 PM

TRJ started a thread 'long eye relief scope for scout rifle' then he pointed to a webpage that also sells shotguns - that got me to this beauty that I am now eyeballing for HD:
 
https://swfa.com/fir...s/shotguns.html
Remington Model 870 TAC-14 12 Gauge 
Black Oxide- 4rd- 14" Barrel- Bead Front Sight
Stock# REM81230
$349.95
 
Thanks guys.  I really thought my 'arsenal' was complete.

Not to divert thread but is a 14" barrel shotgun permitted in IL? Thought it needed to be 18" but could certainly be wrong.

Edited by InterestedBystander, 13 September 2018 - 03:00 PM.

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#17 chicagoresident

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 03:17 PM

It's a loophole,

TRJ started a thread 'long eye relief scope for scout rifle' then he pointed to a webpage that also sells shotguns - that got me to this beauty that I am now eyeballing for HD:
 https://swfa.com/fir...s/shotguns.html
Remington Model 870 TAC-14 12 Gauge 
Black Oxide- 4rd- 14" Barrel- Bead Front Sight
Stock# REM81230
$349.95
 Thanks guys.  I really thought my 'arsenal' was complete.

Not to divert thread but is a 14" barrel shotgun permitted in IL? Thought it needed to be 18" but could certainly be wrong.
If it was manufactured without a stock and is over 26" in overall length it is neither a shotgun or a "any other weapon". It's got a hand brace, not a stock ;)

The Serbu shorty is an any other weapon cuz its under 26", but it's still not a shotgun.

I think the only specific Illinois rule is they won't stamp anything below 26" in overall length and they only offer SBR or AOW stamps if you have a C&R license. But neither of this applies in this case.

Double checked the state law

any rifle having one or more barrels less

than 16 inches in length or a shotgun having one or more barrels less than 18 inches in length or any weapon made from a rifle or shotgun, whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise, if such a weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches

again, your good because it's not a shotgun and is 26" in overall length.

Edited by chicagoresident, 13 September 2018 - 03:26 PM.


#18 luckydawg13

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 03:20 PM

 My bedside pistol is a Glock 21  with a TLR1 streamlight loaded with 230gr speer gold dots  ( Thanks jerry52 )    My wife will be on the phone with 911 

   with a Ruger SP 101 by her side 


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#19 2smartby1/2

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 03:41 PM

Before I got into AR's, I was originally researching pumps for HD....but a Palmetto State sale caught my eye, and several AR's later, I'm still pump-less.   The more research I do, the less I'm inclined to get a shotgun as my primary HD weapon right now.  I stress "right now" because from all of my research, I do remember an article that talked about slings...because you might need your hands to usher (or carry) little ones out of harms way.   I have little ones...so the main drawback of the (pump) shotgun is that it always requires two hands....and the noise.  If something happens, I will have to pick-up crying kids that won't want to move.  But, that shotty is probably the most reliable, and per trigger pull, the most effective.  The limited ammo does not bug me that much because realistically, how often do people empty shotguns in HD situations?  It is also probably the least likely to kill a neighbor.  It is the only one that can go from taking a deer to taking a duck simply by using a different shell in a pure SHTF situation.   Maybe in a few years....

 

 

I actually think I'm trending towards the AR pistol in .300....assuming I can find the right ammo don't won't go through every wall in the neighbors house. An 8.5" barrel makes it compact and easy to handle in tight spaces, but a big benefit is that it can go with me anywhere.  I also like that I can put a sling on it.  All of my current slings have an elastic section, and my 10.5" and 16" have Magpul K2+ grips (more vertical), so those weapons stay close to my body, and they are also meant to be held high and tight.  I have to extend them out against the pull of the elastic when I shoot.  The vertical foregrip on my 16" is almost as close to the magwell as possible. I like to keep my elbows tucked in for a smaller profile.  I currently have no reason to ever shoot at something more than 30 yards away, so that is how I practice. 

 

A full-size pistol with a light seems like it would work, but I'm trying to think of a situation where I would want a full size pistol with a light, over my Shield 9, or a .300blk pistol with a light.  (I almost got suckered into another sale a few weeks ago......Shield 2.0's with a integrated lasers)

 

 

Right now my 10.5" AR pistol in 5.56 is my home defense weapon....but I can't even imagine how loud that would be indoors...or how bright the flash would be in the middle of the night.  I guess I could just shoot a round into the ceiling it would act as a flash bang. 



#20 luckydawg13

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 04:00 PM

just gotta ask those who own AR pistols have you ever shot them inside or at the range with out hearing protection on  Think about it I once had a 223 pistol with a break it was LOUD to the point that for me it was just no fun even with ear protection on  I can only imagine how loud it would be inside my house 

 but you need to use what works for you 


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#21 skrapyard

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 04:00 PM

I tend to swap out whatever pistol I have at the bedside every few months. One thing that stays the same is whatever I keep nearby is always loaded with Ranger T ammo and has night sights or a laser. There is also a flashlight right next to it in case I need it. 

 

Its usually a rotation between a glock G20, a SW40VE w/laser, 9mm P120, and a new to me P938 (thanks spaceman spiff!)  Im sure some people may say its a bad idea to change things up because you may fumble the controls on the firearm in a stressful situation. 

But when I swap a pistol out it is because I have recently been practicing with it a lot at the range. Once I feel comfortable with it I will add it to my "approved bedside gun" list.

 

One thing I dont have nearby is ear pro...Im going to have to change that. If I actually needed to discharge a firearm inside the house in the middle of the night it would be better to only be flashblind rather than flashblind and deaf!


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#22 Windermere

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 04:02 PM

I have a mossberg shockwave and I use aguilla mini shell buckshot. Gives me 9 rds in the tube and one in the pipe.
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#23 TRJ

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 04:18 PM

 

1) A braced sub-gun type 9mm pistol with a red dot and a light. Electronic ear-pro kept close by.

 

2) A 9mm pistol with a light and RMR type red dot. Electronic ear pro kept close by.

 

Preferred ammunition is either Federal HST or Winchester Ranger T. 

Yea, I keep electroninc ears near by as well.  Good point.

 

I'm deaf as heck. My electronic ear pro actually is a huge advantage because I can hear the carpet crunch under a shoe with it turned up. 



#24 TRJ

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 04:31 PM

 The law as I recall is iffy on using real PDW's for self defense so a large capacity handgun like the glock 17 and a 33 round magazine can't be beat.

 

I'm not a huge fan of the thinking behind weapon lights, in home defense situations I think it's a bad idea to have your light also be the barrel of your gun. It forces you to violate 2 of the 4 golden rules of guns and many police departments are finding officers violating 3 of the 4 with the switch near the trigger. The LAPD switched to m&p's with lights and saw their negligent discharge and accidental death rate go way up.

Can you expand on the law being"iffy" on a PDW for SD?  How exactly is a 9mm PDW used in the home to stop an intruder from killing your family any different that a Glock 17 with an RMR and happy stick being used to stop an intruder from killing your family? 

 

I hear you on the weapon lights being used as flashlights for searches...but there's a difference in my mind between having a flashlight on a nightstand gun so you can identify a threat and using a gun mounted light in an official duty application. Cops have separate lights on their belts. I don't have a belt on when I'm sleeping in my underwear and fumbling for a light and a separate gun seems less than ideal and time consuming for a gun/light that only get pointed at things that go bump in the night in a secured house.



#25 2A4Cook

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 04:50 PM

I use a high capacity 9mm pistol (at least 15 rounds) with night sights and a rail-mounted light and green laser, since you never know what position you might wind up having to fire from during a home invasion. To me, the laser is essential. Failing that, an RDS rather the night sights, for the reasons already stated. I don't like to mix an RDS and a Laser, since that could potentially get confusing.

As stated by others, either HST or Ranger T in 147 grain. Ranger T is getting impossible to find without LEO credentials.

#26 richp

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 05:12 PM

Hi,

The original post mentioned a suburban situation.

My upstairs hall points right through my usually open office door, to two office windows, and straight into the kid's bedroom of the house thats about 30 feet away. So whatever I do in that hallway, and whatever I use to defend my bedroom at the other end of that hall, I have to be very mindful of the collateral risks.

It's a real dilemma, because as close as the houses are together in many subdivisions, any round that manages to pass through an outside wall is truly a potential hazard.

Lots to think about in this topic.

Rich Phillips

#27 tab

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 06:10 PM

I like to keep it simple, a .357 revolver with .38 Spl Critical Defense ammo.

#28 ragsbo

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 06:26 PM

My answer is what do you shoot best? A 44 magnum isn't any good unless you can hit what you need/want to. IF all you can shoot well and hit well with is a 22, then use the 22. Hopefully you can at least get where you can shoot full size 9mm. IF you can't shoot a pistol, then a carbine might be the ticket. A shotgun is NOT that easy to shoot with out proper training and more importantly proper ammo. I have a 40 Glock, shotgun and rifle all ready to go, depending on what I need/want



#29 Hipshot Percussion

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 06:36 PM

Glock 17 (my EDC) within 5 steps of the bed.  Although my kids are out of the house, I have 6 grandchildren (7th on the way - thanks!) and I heard Massad Ayoob make a thought-provoking point.  If you have kids in the house, kids you might have to pick up and carry, a rifle may not be the best choice.  Trying to use a rilfe / shotgun with one hand / arm might put you at a disadvantage.  Personally, on those nights the grandkids aren't over, my wife and I will hole up where we are - with a great view down a hallway - and call the professionals in.  Heck, we can go out the window if need be :)


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#30 Keith44

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 06:42 PM

CZ Scorpion Evo pistol with arm brace and Hornady Critical Defense.

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