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New York State Rifle & Pistol Association v. The City of New York


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Not quite.

 

ScotusBlog

... the federal government filed a short brief in which it agreed with the challengers that the case is not moot. The government reasoned that there is still a live controversy because the challengers could seek money damages from the city, but it rejected the challengers' contention that the case is not moot because the rules remain problematic even after the city's changes. The challengers' objections to the new rules "would establish a new controversy regarding those provisions," the government acknowledged, but they "do not establish a live controversy regarding the City's original transport ban." The state and the association will file their responses by Wednesday, November 20.

...

Personally, I'm on board with a brief the Beckett Fund for Religious Liberty filed a while ago in support of neither party, but opposed to mootness. If NYC (a large, powerful, well-funded organization) is allowed to play a shell game with restrictions on individual liberties, it invites governments everywhere to abuse their authority over any individual anywhere.

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The court invited the DOJ to present its opinion in a letter on mootness. The DOJ responded that the case should not be mooted.
That makes me wonder if DOJ/SG Francisco will just lay down and say "2A should be subject to strict scrutiny."

 

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Not quite.

 

ScotusBlog

... the federal government filed a short brief in which it agreed with the challengers that the case is not moot. The government reasoned that there is still a live controversy because the challengers could seek money damages from the city, but it rejected the challengers' contention that the case is not moot because the rules remain problematic even after the city's changes. The challengers' objections to the new rules "would establish a new controversy regarding those provisions," the government acknowledged, but they "do not establish a live controversy regarding the City's original transport ban." The state and the association will file their responses by Wednesday, November 20.

...

Personally, I'm on board with a brief the Beckett Fund for Religious Liberty filed a while ago in support of neither party, but opposed to mootness. If NYC (a large, powerful, well-funded organization) is allowed to play a shell game with restrictions on individual liberties, it invites governments everywhere to abuse their authority over any individual anywhere.

 

It seems that these days, governments don't need an invitation ...

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...

Personally, I'm on board with a brief the Beckett Fund for Religious Liberty filed a while ago in support of neither party, but opposed to mootness. If NYC (a large, powerful, well-funded organization) is allowed to play a shell game with restrictions on individual liberties, it invites governments everywhere to abuse their authority over any individual anywhere.

It seems that these days, governments don't need an invitation ...

 

Maybe not, but at least the courts aren't yet issuing such invitations as a matter of course.

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NYSRPA and NYC have filed letters in response to the DOJ's.

 

Not surprisingly, NYSRPA agrees that they could file a monetary damage claim in the future, but they disagree that no ruling is required on the previous transport ban.

 

Also not surprisingly, NYC disagrees that NYSRPA could ever file a future monetary damage claim as part of the current case, since they have not done so already, but agrees that the case is otherwise moot, as well.

 

I think it would be a bad move on NYSRPA's part to append a damage claim to this case. This case should be all about the constitutional issue and nothing else. It was originally the DOJ that brought up the issue of money. I'd hate to see the oral arguments get bogged down in debates over monetary damages.

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NYSRPA and NYC have filed letters in response to the DOJ's.

 

Not surprisingly, NYSRPA agrees that they could file a monetary damage claim in the future, but they disagree that no ruling is required on the previous transport ban.

 

Also not surprisingly, NYC disagrees that NYSRPA could ever file a future monetary damage claim as part of the current case, since they have not done so already, but agrees that the case is otherwise moot, as well.

 

I think it would be a bad move on NYSRPA's part to append a damage claim to this case. This case should be all about the constitutional issue and nothing else. It was originally the DOJ that brought up the issue of money. I'd hate to see the oral arguments get bogged down in debates over monetary damages.

 

It was probably a tactical error not to ask for $ in the first place. Monetary damages are never mooted.

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After an hour of oral arguments, seemed possible (although not certain) that #SCOTUS will dismiss NYC 2nd Amendment case as moot after city changed its rule. Justice Brett Kavanaugh did not speak, but Chief Justice John Roberts seemed like he could be a 5th vote for moot.

8:16 AM - 2 Dec 2019

 

 

https://www.facebook.com/100011088912909/videos/962864870759801/?t=2

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I'm not getting it. If the SCOTUS declined to allow the case to be dropped over mootness this summer, and confirmed the case to proceed to arguments today, why is mootness coming up again? Why is it more and less moot since summer? Clearly this is going to go straight along party lines, but Roberts better not let us down, again.

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I'm not getting it. If the SCOTUS declined to allow the case to be dropped over mootness this summer, and confirmed the case to proceed to arguments today, why is mootness coming up again? Why is it more and less moot since summer? Clearly this is going to go straight along party lines, but Roberts better not let us down, again.

Because there were no oral arguments on the motion for mootness over the summer. The SC declined to dismiss the case based on briefs alone.

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Well, after reading that transcript, it's a tough call. It is pretty clear that there are two very distinct views on the merits. I think it's going to come down to, are we going to keep the 5th Conservative Judge on our side? Roberts.

Likely yes, he'll be the deciding vote. It was pretty clear that the old law had no support of being constitutional from either the lefties on the court or the city's attorney.

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NYSRPA and NYC have filed letters in response to the DOJ's.

 

Not surprisingly, NYSRPA agrees that they could file a monetary damage claim in the future, but they disagree that no ruling is required on the previous transport ban.

 

Also not surprisingly, NYC disagrees that NYSRPA could ever file a future monetary damage claim as part of the current case, since they have not done so already, but agrees that the case is otherwise moot, as well.

 

I think it would be a bad move on NYSRPA's part to append a damage claim to this case. This case should be all about the constitutional issue and nothing else. It was originally the DOJ that brought up the issue of money. I'd hate to see the oral arguments get bogged down in debates over monetary damages.

 

It was probably a tactical error not to ask for $ in the first place. Monetary damages are never mooted.

 

I also see them typically ask that an order is made by the court declaring the statute in question unconstitutional. No way around that one.

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All these media outlets speculating that SCOTUS will moot the case. However, after reading the transcripts, all that discussion was from the 4 liberal justices. Gorsuch and Alito were clearly in favor of ruling on the merits and wanted to hear the petitioners thoughts on standard of review and "text, history, and tradition". It's obvious from past opinions that Kavanaugh and Thomas are right there with them. Roberts didn't say much, asking a minor technicality follow up on a mootness question. It was hard to get a read on his position.

 

I could see this going either way. Either Roberts was purposefully being hard to read and we're going to get the text history tradition opinion written by Thomas that we're all hoping for or Roberts is going to decide he can avoid picking sides and avoid further controversy and "heal the Court" by going with the liberals to call it moot. That really doesn't make sense though because SCOTUS went out of their way to grant cert on this one (it's not like Obamacare or a controversial whitehouse policy that is unavoidable). Thomas, among others, would be livid to watch Roberts go this far with it and then decide to abandon ship. Then again they don't call him John Benedict Arnold Roberts for nothing....

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That really doesn't make sense though because SCOTUS went out of their way to grant cert on this one

 

That is still my opinion as well. The blunt reality is that many lower courts are simply ignoring Heller/McDonald and I still believe this case was granted cert so the SCOTUS could white glove those lower courts and put them on notice that it's a right that they can no longer deny with judicial reviews bellow those of other enumerated and even non-enumerated civil rights. The truth is the SCOTUS wants the lower courts to do the grunt work, they really only want to give instructions and guidance to the lower courts, but when the lower courts choose to ignore that guidance and instruction, it's only a matter of time before the SCOTUS lays down the law in very clear context.

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