vito Posted June 29, 2018 at 08:01 PM Share Posted June 29, 2018 at 08:01 PM Worth watching. Worth getting your family members to watch as well. This video is from 2012 but is just as valid today as it was then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigcelia Posted June 29, 2018 at 08:05 PM Share Posted June 29, 2018 at 08:05 PM I've seen this, makes a lot of sense actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RECarry Posted June 29, 2018 at 09:24 PM Share Posted June 29, 2018 at 09:24 PM If you live in a crime-ridden Chicago neighborhood, are you encouraged or not encouraged to cooperate with the police? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmyers Posted June 29, 2018 at 10:22 PM Share Posted June 29, 2018 at 10:22 PM $Well, several of the people I shoot with are law enforcement, so I can't talk to them anymore while we shot? $ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio24 Posted June 29, 2018 at 10:58 PM Share Posted June 29, 2018 at 10:58 PM It's a good reminder that in official situations (especially following a self defense scenario) to not talk and ask for your lawyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mic6010 Posted June 29, 2018 at 11:43 PM Share Posted June 29, 2018 at 11:43 PM If you live in a crime-ridden Chicago neighborhood, are you encouraged not encouraged to cooperate with the police? Its pretty simple. If you're involved in an incident then you lawyer up and don't say a word. If you witnessed a crime you tell the cops everything you know that can help them catch the bad guys faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junglebob Posted June 30, 2018 at 12:20 AM Share Posted June 30, 2018 at 12:20 AM If you live in a crime-ridden Chicago neighborhood, are you encouraged not encouraged to cooperate with the police? Its pretty simple. If you're involved in an incident then you lawyer up and don't say a word. If you witnessed a crime you tell the cops everything you know that can help them catch the bad guys faster. Massad Ayoob suggests 5 points to share when the police arrive.1. Point out the perpetrator to police.2. Tell the police "I will sign a complaint"3.Point out evidence. Evidence being a handgun, shell casings, knife or other deadly object.4. Point out witnesses to police i.e. security cameras, people, etc.5 State "Officer you will have my full cooperation in 24 hours after speaking with my attorney" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirflyguy Posted June 30, 2018 at 01:38 AM Share Posted June 30, 2018 at 01:38 AM If you live in a crime-ridden Chicago neighborhood, are you encouraged not encouraged to cooperate with the police? Its pretty simple. If you're involved in an incident then you lawyer up and don't say a word. If you witnessed a crime you tell the cops everything you know that can help them catch the bad guys faster. Massad Ayoob suggests 5 points to share when the police arrive.1. Point out the perpetrator to police.2. Tell the police "I will sign a complaint"3.Point out evidence. Evidence being a handgun, shell casings, knife or other deadly object.4. Point out witnesses to police i.e. security cameras, people, etc.5 State "Officer you will have my full cooperation in 24 hours after speaking with my attorney"This. Andrew Branca, author of The Law of Self Defense (Vol. 3), would agree with Massad. Andrew is the next generation Massad. His book is highly recommended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrc905 Posted June 30, 2018 at 02:56 AM Share Posted June 30, 2018 at 02:56 AM Beat me to it with the Branca reference. While the "don't talk to the police" mindset may work in a routine traffic stop; in a self defense shooting scenario.... not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mic6010 Posted June 30, 2018 at 03:29 AM Share Posted June 30, 2018 at 03:29 AM Beat me to it with the Branca reference. While the "don't talk to the police" mindset may work in a routine traffic stop; in a self defense shooting scenario.... not so much.Name, rank and serial number....I'm in shock, I can't really think clearly...I need to sit down...I feel dizzy. I think I need a medic. Then lawyer up and don't say another word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vito Posted June 30, 2018 at 12:46 PM Author Share Posted June 30, 2018 at 12:46 PM Beat me to it with the Branca reference. While the "don't talk to the police" mindset may work in a routine traffic stop; in a self defense shooting scenario.... not so much. I think you have it exactly backwards. A self defense shooting is when it is most important NOT to start talking with the police. Talking to the officer when stopped for a traffic violation might make his "case" against you solid, but its only a traffic fine at risk. In a self defense shooting there is a world of difference between being a charged defendant in a crime versus being a victim of someone else's crime against you. I think most of us do not see the police as "the enemy", but if we shoot someone we most certainly will be seen as a likely criminal, at least at first. As pointed out in the video, there is nothing at all to gain by telling all to the police who respond to your 911 call, so follow Ayoub's advice and then say no more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrc905 Posted June 30, 2018 at 03:49 PM Share Posted June 30, 2018 at 03:49 PM Beat me to it with the Branca reference. While the "don't talk to the police" mindset may work in a routine traffic stop; in a self defense shooting scenario.... not so much. I think you have it exactly backwards. A self defense shooting is when it is most important NOT to start talking with the police. Talking to the officer when stopped for a traffic violation might make his "case" against you solid, but its only a traffic fine at risk. In a self defense shooting there is a world of difference between being a charged defendant in a crime versus being a victim of someone else's crime against you. I think most of us do not see the police as "the enemy", but if we shoot someone we most certainly will be seen as a likely criminal, at least at first. As pointed out in the video, there is nothing at all to gain by telling all to the police who respond to your 911 call, so follow Ayoub's advice and then say no more. I guess I wasn't clear. I agree with Ayoub's/Branca's advice to give only give pertinent info at the time and not babble on. I just think saying absolutely nothing but "LAWYER" when the cops show up is not the best move.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markthesignguy Posted June 30, 2018 at 04:01 PM Share Posted June 30, 2018 at 04:01 PM It's simple really, while YOU will regard the cop as your rescuer, the COP comes into it as usual looking at a DRT or VIC on way to the hospital - and YOU are the perp. And what perp worth their salt won't want to confuse the issue. Granted that piece of paper called a FCCL helps A BIT, but it will be up to powers above the officer to determine that your actions do not warrant charges or if charged, found NOT GUILTY after a trial. And paraphrasing what both Mas and Andrew say, the wrong words in describing the SAME situation CAN. HURT. YOU. edit - just ONLY saying "lawyer" is tantamount to saying "I'm guilty and I'm not giving you anything to prove it with, so get to work proving it". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euler Posted June 30, 2018 at 05:50 PM Share Posted June 30, 2018 at 05:50 PM ... FCCL helps A BIT, but it will be up to powers above the officer to determine that your actions do not warrant charges or if charged, found NOT GUILTY after a trial. ... Because a CCL is a license to carry, not a license to kill. On the broader topic, the reason to wait to give a full statement is because you want to get it accurate, not because you want to conceal anything. If something in your statement doesn't correspond to facts uncovered by the investigation or if you make one statement then change it later, a prosecutor can make it look like you lied about everything. At the very least, it would make you look like you didn't know what you were doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirflyguy Posted June 30, 2018 at 06:42 PM Share Posted June 30, 2018 at 06:42 PM You must establish that you are the victim from the get go. You can give the basics (you were attacked, witnesses, evidence, bad guy description if he fled the scene). Then, since attacks are so chaotic, request you be taken to the ER to be checked out. Let the police know you will cooperate fully after this ER visit and after consulting with your lawyer, and the subsequent interview will be with your lawyer. Call your lawyer. Just as LEOs involved in duty shootings do not give in-depth incident reports immediately (decompression time from the stress of the incident is needed for clarity of thought and more accuracy), we should do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SycamoreRuger Posted July 9, 2018 at 11:13 AM Share Posted July 9, 2018 at 11:13 AM Here is more advice from a law professor on Vice about why you should not talk to police after an incident or invoke the fifth amendment (hint: that can be used against you).Also worth noting is that police are advised by their unions to keep quiet after shootings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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