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People v. Brown - FOID ruled unconstituional in IL District Court


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#151 Silhouette

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Posted 08 June 2019 - 11:21 AM

Briefs, even timely filed, can take time to show up on the website.  Absent first hand information from Sigale's client, we should be patient.



#152 Euler

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Posted 08 June 2019 - 09:29 PM

Wait, what now? He didn't file a reply brief? ...


Where is this information coming from?


From talking offline to an acquaintance who woke up this morning to alerts that Sigale had dropped the ball on Brown, I'd conclude that it's buzz that is currently a runaway positive feedback loop, exacerbated by the fact that neither illinoiscourts.gov nor sigalelaw.com have any information that would contradict the statement.

If he had truly missed the May 31 deadline, wouldn't the Illinois Supreme Court have announced a summary decision in Kwame's favor sometime last week?
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#153 skinnyb82

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Posted 09 June 2019 - 05:14 AM

If he had truly missed the May 31 deadline, wouldn't the Illinois Supreme Court have announced a summary decision in Kwame's favor sometime last week?
No the case would probably still be heard without the brief. Justices wouldn't be happy about that and it wouldn't go well because it'd be based on the proceedings in the circuit court and Illinois would prevail as the record from the circuit Court is, uhhh, "lacking." Totally devoid of legal reasoning. Frankly, it's an awful order. Well, both of them. "Unconstitutional tax" but why, judge? How is this different from, say, a permit to assemble? I'd have liked to see a well-reasoned explanation that would have perfected the record for appeal. Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk
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#154 THE KING

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Posted 09 June 2019 - 12:32 PM

Ok, here are the documents where it shows that Sigale is overdue on filing his brief. It's on the bottom of the page. At the top of the next page it shows where he is requesting an "instantaner". Which I understand is his request to still be able to file a brief. That is dated 6/3/19. The brief was due 5/31/19.

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#155 THE KING

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Posted 09 June 2019 - 12:34 PM

Here are the documents.

Attached Thumbnails

  • brown_2.jpg
  • brown_001.jpg


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#156 Molly B.

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Posted 09 June 2019 - 01:44 PM

Still checking into what happened.  From the document The King uploaded, the deadline to file a response brief was missed but we don't know why.  It was due on a Friday and the following Monday the instanter was submitted requesting leave to still file the response.

 

There are a host of unknowns - was an attempt made to file the response on May 31st and a possible problem with the website prevented it?  We all know of too many problems with Illinois.gov websites.  Was the attorney sick? In the hospital? Out of the country?  We don't know.  If the deadline was simply missed because of a heavy caseload or whatever, it would be very disappointing and no one would be more upset about it than the attorney.

 

Here's what we do know and that is to not make broad sweeping statements without the facts.  While there are individuals from other 2A organizations who take  wildly perverse pleasure in denigrating and disparaging fellow Second Amendment friends - we do not do it here. Any comments of that nature will be removed from view - one or two already have been - and anyone who persists in violating the code of conduct in this way will find posting privileges suspended.

 

Let's get the facts and see what happens.


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#157 Glock23

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Posted 09 June 2019 - 05:26 PM

If the deadline was simply missed because of a heavy caseload or whatever, it would be very disappointing and no one would be more upset about it than the attorney.


I can think of at least one person who would be more upset than her attorney...
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#158 Molly B.

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Posted 09 June 2019 - 06:27 PM

If the deadline was simply missed because of a heavy caseload or whatever, it would be very disappointing and no one would be more upset about it than the attorney.


I can think of at least one person who would be more upset than her attorney...
Yes, that goes without saying, I was referencing inside the 2A community.
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#159 Flynn

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Posted 09 June 2019 - 07:33 PM

I have to wonder if this the failure to file on time is somehow connected to the 'Fix the FOID' legislation that was in the pipeline?


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#160 steveTA84

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 11:11 AM

If (and I mean a big IF) the deadline was missed and this whole suit trickles away, I give up. Whats the point in the little
guy fighting when the big dogs fail over a landmark case? I dont know all the details and wont pretend to, so I guess well see what the real story here is.

I personally will withhold any judgement until we see what happens.


On a side note, having spoke with people on both sides in the 2A org feud going on, Im staying out of it completely. We have enough enemies in terms of anti-gun organizations, activists, and legislators. This stuff has to stop. The antis are laughing at it all knowing its helping their cause

Edited by steveTA84, 11 June 2019 - 11:11 AM.


#161 SycamoreRuger

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 12:45 PM

If (and I mean a big IF) the deadline was missed and this whole suit trickles away, I give up. Whats the point in the little
guy fighting when the big dogs fail over a landmark case? I dont know all the details and wont pretend to, so I guess well see what the real story here is.
I personally will withhold any judgement until we see what happens.
On a side note, having spoke with people on both sides in the 2A org feud going on, Im staying out of it completely. We have enough enemies in terms of anti-gun organizations, activists, and legislators. This stuff has to stop. The antis are laughing at it all knowing its helping their cause


I am also taking a wait-and-see attitude, but with my fingers crossed. There have been some incendiary accusations flying around (and some deleted posts) so I am hoping things settle down and make sense soon.

I had no idea there was so much animosity between the various pro-2A groups in Illinois until I joined a few last week. I have given money to many of the Illinois groups, but I am not giving a dime to any group that does not have a real name and face attached to it.

#162 Molly B.

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 12:47 PM

The Response brief has been submitted and accepted. The attorney did NOT forget to file, it was a bit late due to technical problems and was submitted via Motion which was granted as soon as statutorily possible.
 
Attached File  Appellate Response Brief + Rule 341 Attorney Certification (filed).pdf   452.33KB   222 downloads


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#163 SycamoreRuger

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 12:49 PM

The Response brief has been submitted and accepted. The attorney did NOT forget to file, it was a bit late due to technical problems and was submitted via Motion which was granted as soon as statutorily possible.
 
Attached File  Appellate Response Brief + Rule 341 Attorney Certification (filed).pdf   452.33KB   222 downloads

That is great news, thank you Molly!



#164 mikew

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 01:32 PM

On a side note, having spoke with people on both sides in the 2A org feud going on, Im staying out of it completely. We have enough enemies in terms of anti-gun organizations, activists, and legislators. This stuff has to stop. The antis are laughing at it all knowing its helping their cause

You gotta wonder at what would happen if we could get the anti's to have a social media war with each other.

 

"Shannon threw shade on my wear orange day, she's beijn' a b-i-double_t-c-h"



#165 steveTA84

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 02:06 PM

The Response brief has been submitted and accepted. The attorney did NOT forget to file, it was a bit late due to technical problems and was submitted via Motion which was granted as soon as statutorily possible.
 
attachicon.gifAppellate Response Brief + Rule 341 Attorney Certification (filed).pdf

Thank you for the update :) great news!!!!!!!

#166 steveTA84

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 02:15 PM

On a side note, having spoke with people on both sides in the 2A org feud going on, Im staying out of it completely. We have enough enemies in terms of anti-gun organizations, activists, and legislators. This stuff has to stop. The antis are laughing at it all knowing its helping their cause

You gotta wonder at what would happen if we could get the anti's to have a social media war with each other.
 
"Shannon threw shade on my wear orange day, she's beijn' a b-i-double_t-c-h"
I attempted to cause a ruckus but was quickly demonized for it lol

I had this ready to go as well (didnt send). Changed the logo a little. The Brokwn oar is a rowdy bar.....

dHaAnpC.jpg

Edited by steveTA84, 11 June 2019 - 02:53 PM.


#167 steveTA84

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 03:18 PM

Just got the ISRA update

eD9KzgA.jpg


Look, now is the time all of the various organizations stop their petty BS and work together. Who cares who did and who started what. Knock it off. Once a date is set and the hearings start, anti-gun groups are going to be picketing in front of the courts and using social media to get their message out in order to sway public opinion their way. We outnumber them heavily in terms of numbers and support. All of the orgs on our side need to call a truce and organize their teams to work together to prepare for a major fight here in IL. Theres a lot of bad blood and it needs to be put aside. If our infighting gets in the way of this case then we lose and the antis celebrate.


Can you imagine how powerful our side would be if ILCarry, GSL, ISRA and IGOT would be if the brass all worked together and united their members?

Edited by steveTA84, 11 June 2019 - 03:20 PM.


#168 Flynn

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 04:46 PM

The argument is solid, let's hope the justices rule on the rule of law and Constitutions instead of feelings and emotion.


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#169 BobPistol

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 05:55 PM


dHaAnpC.jpg

 

 

OK, this is so LOL-worthy, and the Russian stuff at the bottom is a nice touch.  Epic win :)


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#170 steveTA84

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 05:57 PM

^^^^

Free drink at a biker bar would have been fun to watch them attempt lol

#171 MrSmallie

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 10:37 PM

Just got the ISRA update




Look, now is the time all of the various organizations stop their petty BS and work together. Who cares who did and who started what. Knock it off. Once a date is set and the hearings start, anti-gun groups are going to be picketing in front of the courts and using social media to get their message out in order to sway public opinion their way. We outnumber them heavily in terms of numbers and support. All of the orgs on our side need to call a truce and organize their teams to work together to prepare for a major fight here in IL. Theres a lot of bad blood and it needs to be put aside. If our infighting gets in the way of this case then we lose and the antis celebrate.


Can you imagine how powerful our side would be if ILCarry, GSL, ISRA and IGOT would be if the brass all worked together and united their members?

 

I agree with your sentiment but I'm confused as to your expected result.  This is a court case.  Public opinion should have no bearing on the decisions the Justices make.  Unless of course you feel a strong show of support would encourage them to grant "any and all such further relief as this Court deems just and proper."



#172 steveTA84

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 10:46 PM

^^^^

The anti-gun people will be out and there will be propaganda all over social media on how this decision could “turn Illinois into the Wild West” etc. keeping those people in check and engaging them is a must.

#173 SycamoreRuger

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 12:23 PM

^^^^
The anti-gun people will be out and there will be propaganda all over social media on how this decision could “turn Illinois into the Wild West” etc. keeping those people in check and engaging them is a must.


It won’t turn us into the Wild West, it will just make Illinois like any other state in the union that does not require the card. Like with concealed carry, the Illinois politicians are so arrogant that they think they are wiser than the politicians in every other state.

#174 InterestedBystander

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 12:45 PM

^^^^
The anti-gun people will be out and there will be propaganda all over social media on how this decision could turn Illinois into the Wild West etc. keeping those people in check and engaging them is a must.

It wont turn us into the Wild West, it will just make Illinois like any other state in the union that does not require the card. Like with concealed carry, the Illinois politicians are so arrogant that they think they are wiser than the politicians in every other state.
Didnt hear much after the shootouts and blood running in streets events did not happen after passing CCL. They like to point to the handful of states remotely similar instead of the other 40+ that arent set up like IL yet do not have their issues. Its sad that most of these legislators know nothing about firearms and arent interested in educating themselves before introducing a bill that does nothing but feels good.

Edited by InterestedBystander, 12 June 2019 - 12:48 PM.

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#175 InterestedBystander

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 12:51 PM

The Response brief has been submitted and accepted. The attorney did NOT forget to file, it was a bit late due to technical problems and was submitted via Motion which was granted as soon as statutorily possible.
 
attachicon.gifAppellate Response Brief + Rule 341 Attorney Certification (filed).pdf

That is great news, thank you Molly!
Indeed. Hopefully a lesson learned about waiting until the last minute...not a good strategy. Possible computer/system issues are why I moved my renewal a week or so, just in case!
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#176 Euler

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 01:27 PM

I think the legal game played is that, if you file your paperwork early, you just give your opponents that much more time to think about their answer to it. Obviously, if you wait until one minute before the deadline to click the UPLOAD button, but there's a problem that takes two minutes to fix, then you're screwed. I have to believe that, at some point, just a little earlier doesn't make a difference how fast your opponents get access to your arguments.

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#177 Quiet Observer

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 02:08 PM

If a position is filed at the last minute, the opposition is going to request a continuence to allow time to prepare a response.  It is most likely that a judge would allow it.  

 

Filing continuences and appeals has been tactics used on both sides of the 2A arguements for decades.


Edited by Quiet Observer, 12 June 2019 - 03:41 PM.


#178 steveTA84

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 04:41 PM

https://www.thecente...EUWup-C1b6ckXfs


ISRA is ready to go to SCOTUS if the ILSC overrules the previous decision

#179 lockman

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Posted 13 June 2019 - 06:03 AM

‘The City of Chicago, where the high court deemed the city’s handgun ban unconditional. ‘ Is that one step below unconstitutional? ^ this ***

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#180 SycamoreRuger

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Posted 13 June 2019 - 06:40 AM

“The judge in White County said the FOID card is unconstitutional in the home,” Pearson said. “So that’s where we stand today and the state of Illinois doesn’t agree to that.”

and

“Are you prohibited from having a FOID card? The judge said ‘I don’t think so,’ ” Pearson said. “She didn’t do a thing wrong except wanting to defend her own life.”

From the 6/12/19 Cherokee Tribune and Ledger News
https://www.tribunel...a648717a6.html' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'> https://www.tribuneledgernews.com/extra/news/illinois-supreme-court-to-hear-gun-owner-identification-law-challenge/article_fad30f20-7ee0-56a1-81ec-15fa648717a6.html




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