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Carrying on Public Transit as Armed Security Officer

cta carrying open carry armed securty security officer

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#1 LaNsLyDe

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Posted 11 May 2014 - 09:34 PM

This has been on my mind for almost 2 years and my google and forum searching are turning up no answers. Maybe someone here can help?

 

Basically I commute everywhere via the CTA in Chicago and have been trying to get a job as an armed security officer.

 

I do know that statute says you can carry while on duty of course and 1 hour to and from work.

 

My question is that if it is 1 hour to or from work can you carry on public transit?

 

Thanks in advance!



#2 spec5

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Posted 11 May 2014 - 09:50 PM

Do you mean you will be carrying with a CCL? The FCCA doesn't cover the ASO. That just doesn't seem right. Humm!!!! Better check if you get the job.

Edited by spec5, 11 May 2014 - 09:52 PM.

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#3 LaNsLyDe

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Posted 11 May 2014 - 10:17 PM

Do you mean you will be carrying with a CCL? The FCCA doesn't cover the ASO. That just doesn't seem right. Humm!!!! Better check if you get the job.


No , not at all. Open carry while on the way to work..I'm not sure if that is lawful or not haha.

#4 Gamma

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Posted 11 May 2014 - 10:42 PM

If you're also an FCCA Licensee you'll have to take a chance at becoming caselaw, or get some sort of legal determination before the fact.

The same dilemma applies:
http://illinoiscarry...topic=48693&hl=
Does the FCCA language imposing criminal penalties on licensees if they engage in particular acts, still apply if they have some other authorization for their firearm carry other than the FCCA? In this case, the laws governing licensed armed security.

Edited by Gamma, 11 May 2014 - 10:42 PM.

Illinois' FCCA is a prime example of the maxim that sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.

#5 LaNsLyDe

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Posted 11 May 2014 - 10:52 PM

Yea I am but would not want to chance it. I'm going to ask the people who trained me in the morning and report back.

#6 bob

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 05:42 AM

IMO, you are covered for UUW but there is that pesky 21-6 issue. This has always been a problem. Back in 1979 when I took my security guard training, the instructor was very clear that 21-6 prohibited us from using the trains while armed. He also said that he had never heard of anyone being arrested for it and it was (and probably still is) very common.

 

There is also the problem of the FCCA specifically prohibiting licensees from doing certain things that you bring up. 

 

I think the chances are very low that someone in a guard uniform on his way to or from work who is otherwise legal would be charged under either 21-6 or the FCCA. 

 

What a court would say about it is something else.  I just don't know if there is any case law on this. 


bob

Disclaimers: I am not a lawyer, cop, soldier, gunsmith, politician, plumber, electrician, or a professional practitioner of many of the other things I comment on in this forum.

The opinions expressed by this poster do not reflect the official stance of Illinois Carry. Apparently there was some confusion on the part of at least one person that it does, and I want to make things clear that my opinion is my own and that whatever the official stance of IC is or is not at present, it may or may not reflect my own opinion.

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#7 BShawn

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 10:06 AM

I would think the FCCA has nothing at all to do with it whatsoever. Due to the fact that armed security falls under the "tan card" regulations. It'd be like saying LEO cannot carry on transit because FCCA "bans" it there, or that off duty / retired officers aren't "protected" under LEOSA there since the FCCA came about...

 

just my thoughts...


Edited by BShawn, 12 May 2014 - 10:08 AM.

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~ I'm not the "bad guy" here, I just want to be able to defend myself and my family. Anywhere I should be permitted to carry a pencil (1st amendment), I should also be able to carry a firearm (2nd amendment) !!!!!!!!!!

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GarandFan, 2007
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Drawing any line only restricts law abiding people from crossing such a line. The "line" doesn't exist for criminals so we have to support the second amendment.
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#8 bob

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 11:46 AM

I would think the FCCA has nothing at all to do with it whatsoever. Due to the fact that armed security falls under the "tan card" regulations. It'd be like saying LEO cannot carry on transit because FCCA "bans" it there, or that off duty / retired officers aren't "protected" under LEOSA there since the FCCA came about...

 

just my thoughts...

 

 

LEOSA is a federal law that specifically supersedes state and local laws. Any place someone falling under LEOSA can carry, they can carry regardless of what any state or local law says. 

 

I have no doubt a judge would rule that cops can carry any place they damn well please, FCCL or not. 

 

Security guards are not cops nor are they LEOSA. I suspect a judge would just make something up as it would create havoc if a guard was arrested for violating FCCA while traveling to or from work. It probably just won't come up.


bob

Disclaimers: I am not a lawyer, cop, soldier, gunsmith, politician, plumber, electrician, or a professional practitioner of many of the other things I comment on in this forum.

The opinions expressed by this poster do not reflect the official stance of Illinois Carry. Apparently there was some confusion on the part of at least one person that it does, and I want to make things clear that my opinion is my own and that whatever the official stance of IC is or is not at present, it may or may not reflect my own opinion.

http://ilbob.blogspot.com/

#9 BShawn

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 12:32 PM

Maybe you misunderstood my post. I was merely saying that I do not think the FCCA will alter anything for armed security guards. Like LEO (and LEOSA as well), armed security will continue to carry as they have before under whatever regulations, including the FCC a.k.a. "tan card", they have regulating how, when, where, etc, that they carry.

 

That was my .02

 

So, (without KNOWING) I would think, that if armed security could carry on public transit before the FCCA, I would think they still can. Likewise, if they could not, I would think they would still, not be able to. I don't think the FCCA, and the fact that public trans. is a "prohibited place", will affect armed security itself.

 

Again, this is all just my GUESS ;)


upload3.jpg

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~ Licensed to carry since 2008

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~ IL CCL 75 days from application to in hand!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~ I'm not the "bad guy" here, I just want to be able to defend myself and my family. Anywhere I should be permitted to carry a pencil (1st amendment), I should also be able to carry a firearm (2nd amendment) !!!!!!!!!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Why do I carry a handgun? Well, look at it this way -- I keep a fire extinguisher in my house. I don't expect to have a fire; indeed, it's highly unlikely. But in the unlikely event of fire, not having the means to stop the fire could result in serious property loss or personal injury to myself and my family. Neither do I expect to be a victim of violent crime; indeed, it's highly unlikely. But in the unlikely event of a violent crime, not having the means to stop the criminal could lead to serious property loss or personal injury to myself and my family. It is simply a matter of common-sense prudence."
GarandFan, 2007
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Drawing any line only restricts law abiding people from crossing such a line. The "line" doesn't exist for criminals so we have to support the second amendment.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The only thing that will stop a bad guy with a gun, is a good man with a gun"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


#10 bob

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 01:33 PM

Maybe you misunderstood my post. I was merely saying that I do not think the FCCA will alter anything for armed security guards. Like LEO (and LEOSA as well), armed security will continue to carry as they have before under whatever regulations, including the FCC a.k.a. "tan card", they have regulating how, when, where, etc, that they carry.

 

That was my .02

 

So, (without KNOWING) I would think, that if armed security could carry on public transit before the FCCA, I would think they still can. Likewise, if they could not, I would think they would still, not be able to. I don't think the FCCA, and the fact that public trans. is a "prohibited place", will affect armed security itself.

 

Again, this is all just my GUESS ;)

I don't know. The law says what it says. 


bob

Disclaimers: I am not a lawyer, cop, soldier, gunsmith, politician, plumber, electrician, or a professional practitioner of many of the other things I comment on in this forum.

The opinions expressed by this poster do not reflect the official stance of Illinois Carry. Apparently there was some confusion on the part of at least one person that it does, and I want to make things clear that my opinion is my own and that whatever the official stance of IC is or is not at present, it may or may not reflect my own opinion.

http://ilbob.blogspot.com/

#11 AlphaKoncepts aka CGS

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 04:24 PM

My non lawyer opinion is that the prohibited areas only apply to those carrying under the concealed carry act. If you are carrying under a different act, those prohibited areas would be listed in that act.  Don't be the test case.


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#12 Russ S.

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 04:58 PM

I did a brief stint as an armed security guard in the '70's.  Under the terms of the "blue card" at the time, I could carry to and from my assigned post (as I recall, an hour each way sounds about right) on a direct route, but I had to be in uniform and the weapon could not be concealed.  I don't remember any specific rule for public transport, but I had to take a bus and an el train to get to my worksite.  I later became licensed as a private investigator with a "tan card", which allowed more freedom, although I seldom carried a firearm then.


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#13 LaNsLyDe

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 10:00 AM

I did a brief stint as an armed security guard in the '70's.  Under the terms of the "blue card" at the time, I could carry to and from my assigned post (as I recall, an hour each way sounds about right) on a direct route, but I had to be in uniform and the weapon could not be concealed.  I don't remember any specific rule for public transport, but I had to take a bus and an el train to get to my worksite.  I later became licensed as a private investigator with a "tan card", which allowed more freedom, although I seldom carried a firearm then.

Yea that was my question, with a TAN card can you carry to/from work on public transportation. I'm pretty sure I asked the question in class , but it's been awhile :/

 

haha. Thanks everyone for the replies!



#14 LaNsLyDe

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 10:08 AM

(720 ILCS 5/24-2)

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/fulltext.asp?DocName=072000050K24-2 

 

 

nothing mentioning public transportation. 

 

from (225 ILCS 447/35-35)

 

"Possession of a valid firearm control card allows a licensee or employee to carry a firearm not otherwise prohibited by law while the licensee or employee is engaged in the performance of his or her duties or while the licensee or employee is commuting directly to or from the licensee's or employee's place or places of employment."

 

 

http://www.ilga.gov/...&SeqEnd=6200000 


Edited by LaNsLyDe, 13 May 2014 - 10:08 AM.


#15 bob

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 02:39 PM

(720 ILCS 5/24-2)

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/fulltext.asp?DocName=072000050K24-2 

 

 

nothing mentioning public transportation. 

 

from (225 ILCS 447/35-35)

 

"Possession of a valid firearm control card allows a licensee or employee to carry a firearm not otherwise prohibited by law while the licensee or employee is engaged in the performance of his or her duties or while the licensee or employee is commuting directly to or from the licensee's or employee's place or places of employment."

 

 

http://www.ilga.gov/...&SeqEnd=6200000 

I think one could make a good argument that this provision may well override 21-6 for people with FCC while commuting to and from work, as well as the restrictions found in the FCCA that apply to FCCL. 


bob

Disclaimers: I am not a lawyer, cop, soldier, gunsmith, politician, plumber, electrician, or a professional practitioner of many of the other things I comment on in this forum.

The opinions expressed by this poster do not reflect the official stance of Illinois Carry. Apparently there was some confusion on the part of at least one person that it does, and I want to make things clear that my opinion is my own and that whatever the official stance of IC is or is not at present, it may or may not reflect my own opinion.

http://ilbob.blogspot.com/

#16 Terry 9595

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 03:35 PM

As a licensed Instructor by the DPR, I can tell you that Security Officers can carry on all forms of public transportation while armed. They also can carry in most of the other prohibited places (if needed for their job). This applies also for their commute to and from work.
I would also mention,the Private Detective Act that was just rewritten has taken away the 1 hour restriction. If you are going to or from work, there is no longer the time limit. But you need to be going straight to or from.

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#17 LaNsLyDe

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 07:18 PM

As a licensed Instructor by the DPR, I can tell you that Security Officers can carry on all forms of public transportation while armed. They also can carry in most of the other prohibited places (if needed for their job). This applies also for their commute to and from work.
I would also mention,the Private Detective Act that was just rewritten has taken away the 1 hour restriction. If you are going to or from work, there is no longer the time limit. But you need to be going straight to or from.


Thanks Terry. I'll have a look At the new act.