Cook County AWB V/s Federal AWB

[Sigma]

I'm so confused. I understand Federal law allows so called "assualt weapons" as of last year when the ban expired. Does that mean everyone is ok?

I know that Cook County has a AWB also. Did that go away with the federal ban being lifted?

 

My gun dealer in Cook County sells hi capacity mag semi-auto's and so does a couple other dealers in Cook County. I asked and the dealer told me that its ok to own them now since the Federal allows it.

 

I searched and couldn't find anything that says Cook County has repealed their ban. But yet these dealers are selling these firearms without fear. If it was illegal wouldnt cook county shut these well know gun dealers down?

 

I want to buy a firearm that holds well over 10 in the mag and want to know if I will be legal.

[RobR369]

From what I understand and was told, yes the federal AWB has been lifted, and yes Cook County still has an AWB, but certain towns, villages, in Cook County have Home Rule over the Cook County Ban, allowing to sell Hi-cap mags, AR's and also I have been told that citizens living in a Home Rule town are able to possess these items.

[Tvandermyde]

it's from the IL constitution.

 

 

Article 7 section 6 ( c )

If a home rule county ordinance conflicts with an ordinance of a municipality, the municipal ordinance shall prevail within its jurisdiction.

 

Some of the commisioners tried to do an end around and say their ordinace took precidence. If your ordinace was not as tough, the county's would rule.

 

That was when we went after cook county on preemption. We came within 4 votes of a super majority. So the County control in unicorporated. Any other area is controlled by local ordinace. If they have none, the arguement is there is none as they choose not to regulate it, so state law applies.

[Don Gwinn]

One of the members here has been told by his Cook County Board member that even if you're in unincorporated Cook County, the ban hasn't been enforced and will not be--it's just for show and a way to express the board's attitude toward gun owners. Of course, that's not a promise I'd put any faith in myself, because he's not actually the one who would make that decision if you had a house fire and the firemen or a cop on the scene saw your AR15 laying out.

 

Todd, I've asked the Chicago police and a few others in Cook whether Chicago's ordinance on assault weapons or the county AWB controls in Chicago, and everyone professed not to know. I figured Chicago's ordinance regulates so-called "assault weapons" and therefore must be in control, but I didn't know if the county had some weird theory. Chicago's ordinance is actually a lot less onerous than the county law on assault weapons--their list of weapons is shorter, and they don't have a set of "evil features" like the county does.

 

Also, they have a clause in the Chicago ordinance that allows the police Superintendent to add any weapons he wants to the "assault weapons" list by issuing a departmental regulation. The public-affairs people checked and told me that there had been a list of arms that had been added to the list, but that the regulations adding them had all been removed by order of the Superintendent late last year. I don't suppose you know anything about that? I was wondering why Weis would want to do such a thing, but nobody seems to have any insight.

 

I've heard of at least one person who was denied registration on a Mossberg shotgun that might have fit the Cook County AWB's definition based on evil features, but wasn't on the Chicago list. But that happened long enough ago that I now wonder whether his Mossberg was on the expanded list, and would now be registerable.

[Tvandermyde]

dunno. have to look into it.

 

I have not heard of enformcement, but have been hunting in Cook with a semi-auto 10/22 configured to violate the ban in hopes of getting picked up.

 

more to follow as I'm getting back in the swing today.

[kurt555gs]

I wonder how Cook County would classify my FN FiveseveN. For some reason this fine weapon has gotten a lot of bad press.

[Don Gwinn]

I have not heard of enformcement, but have been hunting in Cook with a semi-auto 10/22 configured to violate the ban in hopes of getting picked up.

 

There's your trouble. Hunting over bait is generally not allowed in Illinois.

[Federal Farmer]

One of the members here has been told by his Cook County Board member that even if you're in unincorporated Cook County, the ban hasn't been enforced and will not be--it's just for show and a way to express the board's attitude toward gun owners. Of course, that's not a promise I'd put any faith in myself, because he's not actually the one who would make that decision if you had a house fire and the firemen or a cop on the scene saw your AR15 laying out.

 

Todd, I've asked the Chicago police and a few others in Cook whether Chicago's ordinance on assault weapons or the county AWB controls in Chicago, and everyone professed not to know. I figured Chicago's ordinance regulates so-called "assault weapons" and therefore must be in control, but I didn't know if the county had some weird theory. Chicago's ordinance is actually a lot less onerous than the county law on assault weapons--their list of weapons is shorter, and they don't have a set of "evil features" like the county does.

 

Also, they have a clause in the Chicago ordinance that allows the police Superintendent to add any weapons he wants to the "assault weapons" list by issuing a departmental regulation. The public-affairs people checked and told me that there had been a list of arms that had been added to the list, but that the regulations adding them had all been removed by order of the Superintendent late last year. I don't suppose you know anything about that? I was wondering why Weis would want to do such a thing, but nobody seems to have any insight.

 

I've heard of at least one person who was denied registration on a Mossberg shotgun that might have fit the Cook County AWB's definition based on evil features, but wasn't on the Chicago list. But that happened long enough ago that I now wonder whether his Mossberg was on the expanded list, and would now be registerable.

 

I'd like to know what model Mossberg that was. Might have to buy one. The City accepted my registration of a 10-22, much to my surprise.

[mikew]

I'd like to know what model Mossberg that was. Might have to buy one.

Well, Mossberg has a whole bunch of effective looking models.

 

Maybe Cook Co does not like pistol grips.

Look at the muzzle brake and the hand strap:

http://www.mossberg.com/images/Mossberg_Guns/930/New/50591.jpg

 

Stand-off barrel:

http://www.mossberg.com/images/Mossberg_Guns/930/New/54125.jpg

 

Under-rail:

http://www.mossberg.com/images/Mossberg_Guns/930/New/55605.jpg

 

Shiny:

http://www.mossberg.com/images/Mossberg_Guns/930/New/50278.jpg

 

But my favorite ones are the 590s,

they come with bayonet lugs.

This one has a speed-feed stock and ghost ring sight.

http://www.mossberg.com/images/Mossberg_Guns/930/New/50668.jpg

[Tvandermyde]

Now Don, What do you mean by that? I'm just trying to rid my deer hunting spot of a few pesky squirrels, and the occasional coyote -- I use an AR-15 for that, and yes in Cook County.

[Sigma]

Well thanks for your response guys. My Sigma holds 16 rounds. I could go and pay 40 bucks for a 10 round mag to comply with crook county but I hate the idea of paying for less capacity. While my Village has nothing on their books about any AWB My fear is driving through lets say Naperville which is unincorporated. :Angry!:

[Tvandermyde]

Sigma --

 

Naperville is NOT in Cook County. Only Chicago, Aurora and Oak Park have semi-auto/mag bans that come to mind.

[Sigma]

Man now we need a lsit not only to tell us what states allow COncelaed or open carry but now we need a map of which stupid cook county cities allow a pistol with 11 rounds. GOSH!

[Tvandermyde]

Go to the State Police website and you can look up local ordinaces. It has most of them.

[Lou]

Just fer shitsNgrins I contacted a Crook County ASA I know casually and asked if to he knew of ANY prosecutions under the Crook County AWB or if I needed to file a FOIA request to get that info. He specializes in gang prosecutions and said he didn't not know of any but would ask a colleague who specializes in gun cases. He hasn't gotten back to me since but I'll follow up. Either that or I'll figger out how to file a FOIA.

[cherryriver]

While this is strictly anecdotal, a good friend is an LEO working in a large multi-jurisdictional SWAT unit. He says that the Cook AWB is used only as an add-on to pile on charges, mostly in gang cases.

Sorry, but I don't have documentation.

[Tvandermyde]

I'll ask for the info from the SA or have a state rep ask for it. I'm sure it will take time to get, but we'll see.

[Yas]

it's from the IL constitution.

 

 

Article 7 section 6 ( c )

If a home rule county ordinance conflicts with an ordinance of a municipality, the municipal ordinance shall prevail within its jurisdiction.

 

Some of the commisioners tried to do an end around and say their ordinace took precidence. If your ordinace was not as tough, the county's would rule.

 

That was when we went after cook county on preemption. We came within 4 votes of a super majority. So the County control in unicorporated. Any other area is controlled by local ordinace. If they have none, the arguement is there is none as they choose not to regulate it, so state law applies.

So is this the correct interpretation of the law or is it a town must have home rule and different laws to negate the Cook County ban.

 

Todd

C®ook County rules and bans for Unincorporated only? (I know years back it used to be that way)

 

 

 

Lets just say I'm in a city without Home Rule, and the city has no restrictions or bans one way or the other on its books. Am I bound by Cook County laws / bans Or just the state laws? Its not an unincorporated area of the county.

 

 

Its just that politicians up here seem to thrive on confusion and encourage misconception on a regular basis.

 

Todd I don't need the "theoretical argument" here I need what's the law I'm supposed to be obeying in my city. That is in C®ook County. I'd ask the police here, but how many times has it been discussed that police do not always now what the law is? Years back for reasons I will not post on the web, a few of my local PD representatives did not even know what an 870 was and they had one in their squad car locked in the travel rack.

 

I'd like to know if I can bring a couple of black rifles home that are currently living outside the county currently.

[Tvandermyde]

I'll look some stuff up, but the counties have never been able to trump local ordinances in incorporated towns, otherwise why incorporate?

 

Cook may argue differently, but the consitution clearly says that where the ordinance conflicts the local shall prevail. A lot fo towns have adopted the deadley weapon statute as an ordinance, if they have, I would say you are deffinately in the clear. But i'm just a lobbyist not a lawyer. But I have won more cases on my interpretation of the law than the cook county SA has on guns ans statutes.

[Lou]

Just fer shitsNgrins I contacted a Crook County ASA I know casually and asked if to he knew of ANY prosecutions under the Crook County AWB or if I needed to file a FOIA request to get that info. He specializes in gang prosecutions and said he didn't not know of any but would ask a colleague who specializes in gun cases. He hasn't gotten back to me since but I'll follow up. Either that or I'll figger out how to file a FOIA.

 

 

He got back to me. As I said, he specializes in prosecuting gang cases so there are always many more charges to deal with and the AWB violation is minor. Here is his reply:

 

Lou,

I spoke to the State's Attorney who handles the gang gun running cases and he was aware the statue, however he was unaware of any cases that were prosecuted in Cook County. Most of the time we deal with individuals who are convicted felons and cannot possess weapons under any circumstances and within the the City of Chicago there is a city statue that does not allow for handguns in the city and registration of long guns (which most people don't do). So, the Chicago Police Department charges these individuals with these violations and would not charge them with the Cook County Weapons Ban.

Researching any cases that where prosecuted under the statue in Cook County may prove difficult, but not impossible. The Cook County Assault Weapons Ban is a misdemeanor and therefore would not require felony review approval and would not be indicted by the Grand Jury or proceed to a Preliminary Hearing via an Informaion. Beacase of this, the way these felony cases enter the system, it is easier to track these cases and search the database for cases prosecuted under a particular felony statue.

As you know, after a person is arrested for a misdemeanor, misdemeanor complaints are filed with the circuit court clerk and entered in the system. One can search the court clerk's system by case number, name, police report number, FBI and SID number, etc., but I am unaware of a way to search the database by statue. However, the court clerk does enter the criminal staute that a person is charged with in the database. The court clerk should be able to access this information and retrieve this info, but it would require the database administrator to do the search. A FOIA reques to the Cook County Clerks Office is probably your best bet.

[Birdmang]

I looked into this a lot before purchasing my AR15...

 

Any municipality in Cook County that is not governed by home rule or anywhere in Cook County that is unincorporated is by law (not necessarily enforced though) as follows:

 

(a) “Assault weapon" means (firearms defined as ILLEGAL by Cook County)

 

(1) A semiautomatic rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and one or more of the following:

(A) A pistol grip;

( Any feature capable of functioning as a protruding grip that can be held by the non-trigger hand;

© A folding, telescoping or thumbhole stock;

(D) A shroud attached to the barrel, or that partially or completely encircles the barrel, allowing the bearer to hold the firearm with the non-trigger hand without being burned, but excluding a slide that encloses the barrel; or

(E) A muzzle brake or muzzle compensator;

(2) A semiautomatic pistol or any semi-automatic rifle that has a fixed magazine, that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds of ammunition;

(3) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and has one or more of the following:

(A) Any feature capable of functioning as a protruding grip that can be held by the non-trigger hand;

( A folding, telescoping or thumbhole stock;

© A shroud attached to the barrel, or that partially or completely encircles the barrel, allowing the bearer to hold the firearm with the non-trigger hand without being burned, but excluding a slide that encloses the barrel;

(D) A muzzle brake or muzzle compensator; or

(E) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.

(4) A semiautomatic shotgun that has one or more of the following:

(A) A pistol grip;

( Any feature capable of functioning as a protruding grip that can be held by the non-trigger hand;

© A folding, telescoping or thumbhole stock;

(D) A fixed magazine capacity in excess of 5 rounds; or

(E) An ability to accept a detachable magazine;

(5) Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder.

(6) Conversion kit, part or combination of parts, from which an assault weapon can be assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person;

(7) Shall include, but not be limited to, the models identified as follows:

 

(A) The following rifles or copies or duplicates thereof:

(i) AK, AKM, AKS, AK-47, AK-74, ARM, MAK90, Misr, NHM 90, NHM 91, SA 85, SA 93, VEPR;

(ii) AR-10;

(iii) AR-15, Bushmaster XM15, Armalite M15, or Olympic Arms PCR;

(iv) AR70;

(v) Calico Liberty;

(vi) Dragunov SVD Sniper Rifle or Dragunov SVU;

(vii) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, or FNC;

(viii) Hi-Point Carbine;

(ix) HK-91, HK-93, HK-94, or HK-PSG-1;

(x) Kel-Tec Sub Rifle;

(xi) M1 Carbine;

(xii) Saiga;

(xiii) SAR-8, SAR-4800;

(xiv) SKS with detachable magazine;

(xv) SLG 95;

(xvi) SLR 95 or 96;

(xvii) Steyr AUG;

(xviii) Sturm, Ruger Mini-14;

(xix) Tavor;

(xx) Thompson 1927, Thompson M1, or Thompson 1927 Commando; or

(xxi) Uzi, Galil and Uzi Sporter, Galil Sporter, or Galil Sniper Rifle (Galatz).

 

( The following pistols or copies or duplicates thereof:

(i) Calico M-110;

(ii) MAC-10, MAC-11, or MPA3;

(iii) Olympic Arms OA;

(iv) TEC-9, TEC-DC9, TEC-22 Scorpion, or AB-10; or

(v) Uzi.

© The following shotguns or copies or duplicates thereof:

(i) Armscor 30 BG;

(ii) SPAS 12 or LAW 12;

(iii) Striker 12; or

(iv) Streetsweeper.

 

 

 

If your municipality has home rule, like Des Plaines (Maxon sells AR15s, and Mount Prospect, Phils sells AR15s) then the city statutes trump the County ones...this leads you to have to check the city statutes. Just because there is home rule doesn't mean that you are clear. As long as there are no city specific bans on weapons then you are fine.

[Tvandermyde]

Bird -- I have to dissagree.

 

The county just can't come in and impose it's will on things like this becuase a municipality doesn't pass an ordinance. Othewise the non-home rule towns would just be subseviant to the County. Cook is unique as the only home rule county, but it still doesn't let them run roughshod over local goverment.

 

The towns with gun sahops all passed ordinaces to make sure their guys were protected. so there would be no problems with law suits

[Birdmang]

If the municipality doesn't have home rule, then the county law is paramount.

[Federal Farmer]

It is interesting to ponder what happens when DuPage gets home rule, since I believe it will exceed the population level in this upcoming census.

[BIGMAC]

I'm taking it that I would be ok picking up a .22 Smith &Wesson m&p15 or a colt m4 ops .22 if I live in streamwood from what I know there are no weapons ban or restrictions, but I'm still waiting for the Sargent to call me back

[Federal Farmer]

I'd like to know what model Mossberg that was. Might have to buy one.

Well, Mossberg has a whole bunch of effective looking models.

 

Maybe Cook Co does not like pistol grips.

Look at the muzzle brake and the hand strap:

http://www.mossberg.com/images/Mossberg_Guns/930/New/50591.jpg

 

Stand-off barrel:

http://www.mossberg.com/images/Mossberg_Guns/930/New/54125.jpg

 

Under-rail:

http://www.mossberg.com/images/Mossberg_Guns/930/New/55605.jpg

 

Shiny:

http://www.mossberg.com/images/Mossberg_Guns/930/New/50278.jpg

 

But my favorite ones are the 590s,

they come with bayonet lugs.

This one has a speed-feed stock and ghost ring sight.

http://www.mossberg.com/images/Mossberg_Guns/930/New/50668.jpg

 

I was interested in the specific model that was denied...would also be good to know the features it had.

[xbaltzx]

I just applied to register a 8+1 Mossy 590a1.

 

I am curious on how long it will take for the city to get back to me.

[mikew]

I was interested in the specific model that was denied...would also be good to know the features it had.

Yea, I know.

It would be good to know the specifics about Chicago their regulations about shotguns.

[mikew]

It would be good to know the specifics about Chicago their regulations about shotguns.

FF:

You probably already know this,

The regulations and definitions are here:

Municipal Code of Chicago - TITLE 8 OFFENSES AFFECTING PUBLIC PEACE, MORALS AND WELFARE - CHAPTER 8-20 WEAPONS

 

None of the ones that I saw at Mossberg's site meet these criteria:

“Sawed-off shotgun” means a shotgun having a barrel of less than 18 inches in length or a firearm made from a shotgun if such firearm is modified and has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel of less than 18 inches in length.

 

I did find this under the definition of AW:

(3) Any weapon that the superintendent of police defines by regulation as an assault weapon because the design or operation of such weapon is inappropriate for lawful use.

[Federal Farmer]

I did find this under the definition of AW:

(3) Any weapon that the superintendent of police defines by regulation as an assault weapon because the design or operation of such weapon is inappropriate for lawful use.

 

Yeah, that is the dinger. They have a (slightly outdated) book of guns they consult when you send in a registration. They did register it, but for some reason they found no information on my TTN Double Barrel 1878 Coach Gun. I think the MFG is Norinco, but they couldn't find it in their book.