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People v. Brown - FOID ruled unconstituional in IL District Court


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#391 mrmagloo

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Posted 07 April 2020 - 10:18 AM

Read 430 ILCS 65 Firearm Owners Identification Act.  Section 2 is very clear.



#392 OneGun

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Posted 12 April 2020 - 05:47 PM

I curious about how the IL SC would rule on this situation.  A mother has a FOID card and owns several firearms.  Her son gets released from prison and is now a prohibited person.  Mom leaves the house to get groceries and leaves the guns at home.  The son is at the home.  Is the son now constructively in possession of a firearm as a prohibited person and he is now committing a crime while he sits at home watching a football game?

 

I think this situation is where the constitutionality of the FOID card becomes really murky.

 

I'm not an attorney, but I envision this situation exists in many homes right now.


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#393 davel501

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Posted 12 April 2020 - 06:31 PM

I curious about how the IL SC would rule on this situation.  A mother has a FOID card and owns several firearms.  Her son gets released from prison and is now a prohibited person.  Mom leaves the house to get groceries and leaves the guns at home.  The son is at the home.  Is the son now constructively in possession of a firearm as a prohibited person and he is now committing a crime while he sits at home watching a football game?
 
I think this situation is where the constitutionality of the FOID card becomes really murky.
 
I'm not an attorney, but I envision this situation exists in many homes right now.


As long as they are locked up in a way he doesn't have access to them it is fine. If she leaves one out he's taking a ride.

#394 lockman

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Posted 12 April 2020 - 06:54 PM

Does she have to lock up her 80 lowers and the drill press? How about the reloading equipment? / purple ^ this ***

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#395 SiliconSorcerer

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Posted 14 April 2020 - 02:21 PM

 

I curious about how the IL SC would rule on this situation.  A mother has a FOID card and owns several firearms.  Her son gets released from prison and is now a prohibited person.  Mom leaves the house to get groceries and leaves the guns at home.  The son is at the home.  Is the son now constructively in possession of a firearm as a prohibited person and he is now committing a crime while he sits at home watching a football game?
 
I think this situation is where the constitutionality of the FOID card becomes really murky.
 
I'm not an attorney, but I envision this situation exists in many homes right now.


As long as they are locked up in a way he doesn't have access to them it is fine. If she leaves one out he's taking a ride.

 

Being in the same household as a firearm is not in itself possession, locked up or not.


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#396 davel501

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Posted 14 April 2020 - 04:26 PM

 

 

I curious about how the IL SC would rule on this situation.  A mother has a FOID card and owns several firearms.  Her son gets released from prison and is now a prohibited person.  Mom leaves the house to get groceries and leaves the guns at home.  The son is at the home.  Is the son now constructively in possession of a firearm as a prohibited person and he is now committing a crime while he sits at home watching a football game?
 
I think this situation is where the constitutionality of the FOID card becomes really murky.
 
I'm not an attorney, but I envision this situation exists in many homes right now.


As long as they are locked up in a way he doesn't have access to them it is fine. If she leaves one out he's taking a ride.

 

Being in the same household as a firearm is not in itself possession, locked up or not.

 

 

If he is the only resident of the house that is home he is in control of the house and its contents. Some states require that you know the firearm is there but I don't think Illinois is one of them.



#397 Flynn

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Posted 15 April 2020 - 04:23 AM

I curious about how the IL SC would rule on this situation.  A mother has a FOID card and owns several firearms.  Her son gets released from prison and is now a prohibited person.  Mom leaves the house to get groceries and leaves the guns at home.  The son is at the home.  Is the son now constructively in possession of a firearm as a prohibited person and he is now committing a crime while he sits at home watching a football game?

 

I think this situation is where the constitutionality of the FOID card becomes really murky.

 

I'm not an attorney, but I envision this situation exists in many homes right now.

 

I actually have experience with this, they will likely charge the prohibited person with constructive possession if the firearm is in the same building and not locked away where said prohibited person couldn't readilly readily gain access.  Same with any bullets at the location.  In my case the individual was not only charged with constructive possession of my firearm they were also charged with of constructive possession for each and every bullet in the magazine and in the box of ammo in the drawer.  And of course my lawfully owned firearm was confiscated.  In the end all the constructive possession charges ended up getting dropped in a plea and my firearm was eventually returned but I had to go to court and fight to get it returned even though the charges were dropped and it should have just been given back.


Edited by Flynn, 15 April 2020 - 04:25 AM.

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#398 lockman

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Posted 15 April 2020 - 05:04 AM

This is what happens when the letter of the law is stretched beyond reasonable and intent is removed from consideration. ^ this ***

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#399 mab22

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Posted 15 April 2020 - 08:41 AM

 

I curious about how the IL SC would rule on this situation.  A mother has a FOID card and owns several firearms.  Her son gets released from prison and is now a prohibited person.  Mom leaves the house to get groceries and leaves the guns at home.  The son is at the home.  Is the son now constructively in possession of a firearm as a prohibited person and he is now committing a crime while he sits at home watching a football game?

 

I think this situation is where the constitutionality of the FOID card becomes really murky.

 

I'm not an attorney, but I envision this situation exists in many homes right now.

 

I actually have experience with this, they will likely charge the prohibited person with constructive possession if the firearm is in the same building and not locked away where said prohibited person couldn't readilly readily gain access.  Same with any bullets at the location.  In my case the individual was not only charged with constructive possession of my firearm they were also charged with of constructive possession for each and every bullet in the magazine and in the box of ammo in the drawer.  And of course my lawfully owned firearm was confiscated.  In the end all the constructive possession charges ended up getting dropped in a plea and my firearm was eventually returned but I had to go to court and fight to get it returned even though the charges were dropped and it should have just been given back.

 

We were taught that in the CCL course. That's why I had my wife get a FOID, just in case any ammunition falls out of a range bag, or I pick some ammo up and forget I left it in the trunk when I got home and she had to borrow the car for what ever reason.


Void the FOID!

#400 mab22

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Posted 15 April 2020 - 08:50 AM

So if she is simply found not guilty, can she have her firearm back without a FOID and will they have to give it back to her without her applying for or possessing a FOID card?

 

I am guessing that the case just does not simply end in a not guilty...

 


Void the FOID!

#401 davel501

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Posted 15 April 2020 - 10:28 AM

So if she is simply found not guilty, can she have her firearm back without a FOID and will they have to give it back to her without her applying for or possessing a FOID card?

 

I am guessing that the case just does not simply end in a not guilty...

 

 

Yep. Separate trips to court and legal fees to get the firearm back. Sounds like having a nice firearm could make it worse as I've heard a few stories of confiscated guns having to be retrieved from the chief's house. 



#402 Tip

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Posted 15 April 2020 - 12:32 PM


So if she is simply found not guilty, can she have her firearm back without a FOID and will they have to give it back to her without her applying for or possessing a FOID card?
 
I am guessing that the case just does not simply end in a not guilty...
 


 
Yep. Separate trips to court and legal fees to get the firearm back. Sounds like having a nice firearm could make it worse as I've heard a few stories of confiscated guns having to be retrieved from the chief's house. 


Nope, simple, she can pick up the firearm at her convenience. All she has to do is show a valid FOID because, you know, an Illinois citizen transporting a firearm in Illinois without a FOID is illegal.

No, we cannot release the firearm to anyone else, sorry.

No, she doesnât need one to possess the firearm in her house.

Catch 22 but hey, thatâs another issue for another court case....

Edited by Tip, 15 April 2020 - 12:35 PM.

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#403 Chief Illiniwek

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Posted 17 April 2020 - 03:26 PM

 

So if she is simply found not guilty, can she have her firearm back without a FOID and will they have to give it back to her without her applying for or possessing a FOID card?
 
I am guessing that the case just does not simply end in a not guilty...
 


 
Yep. Separate trips to court and legal fees to get the firearm back. Sounds like having a nice firearm could make it worse as I've heard a few stories of confiscated guns having to be retrieved from the chief's house. 


Nope, simple, she can pick up the firearm at her convenience. All she has to do is show a valid FOID because, you know, an Illinois citizen transporting a firearm in Illinois without a FOID is illegal.

No, we cannot release the firearm to anyone else, sorry.

No, she doesnât need one to possess the firearm in her house.

Catch 22 but hey, thatâs another issue for another court case....

 

 

What if someone with a FOID is with her when she goes to retrieve it?  The rifle would be released to her.  Couldn't the FOID holder then transport her and the rifle to her residence?  


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