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Should Democrats have the right to carry concealed or even own a gun?


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#1 vito

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 09:31 AM

There is great concern across our nation about mentally ill individuals being able to buy and own guns, and not without justification for that concern. People who clearly have impaired judgement and cannot think rationally probably should be prohibited from legally having firearms. So it has occurred to me that being a Democrat, and supporting the likes of Mike Madigan who has devastated this state, Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer and others at the national level that are America haters and enemies of freedom, let alone Obama who clearly thought that this country needed to be "transformed" into some third world nation as punishment for its "historic ills" are clearly unstable and incapable of rational thought, and thus should be considered a danger if they are given legal access to firearms. And since the Democrat party has called for the elimination of private gun ownership, including confiscation of all privately held firearms, as well as repeal of the 2nd Amendment, it makes total sense to deny gun rights to those who wish to deny such rights to the rest of us. Democrats who are loyal to Hilary Clinton, Elizabeth Warren and their mentor Barack Hussein Obama should be proud to turn in their FOID card, surrender their weapons, and renounce their right to keep and bear arms. Makes perfect sense to me. 


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#2 biggun 1

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 09:48 AM

as long as a person meets the requirements to own a firearm their political views should not matter.it is unfair to assume someone is mentally unstable do to who they vote for.just for the record i voted tor trump.while i do to a degree understand what you are saying it is important to remember that not all democrat,s are hard core liberals.don,t get me wrong,i also think most liberals have a flawed thought process.


Edited by biggun 1, 26 November 2017 - 09:50 AM.


#3 vito

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 09:50 AM

I understand that not all Democrats are hard core liberals, but I truly believe that those who vote the Democrat Party line are demonstrating a lack of rational judgement. My post was meant somewhat in jest, but I think that the essence of my thought, that those who support the likes of Obama and Clinton and Pelosi and Harry Reid and those like them either really do not value their 2nd Amendment rights or truly are incapable of understanding how they are voting against their own interests. 


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#4 soundguy

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 10:02 AM

Vito,

Your premise is flawed.
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#5 mauserme

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 10:33 AM

I'm a really big fan of the entire Constitution, including the 5th and 14th Amendments.

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On 5/25/2017, Superintendent Eddie Johnson predicted a 50% reduction is Chicago violence within 3 years of SB1722 becoming law.  The bill was signed into law on 6/23/2017. The clock is now ticking.


#6 spec5

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 10:48 AM

Vito. Brandon Phelps is a Democrat. Thank him for your CCL.
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#7 RandyP

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 10:49 AM

Those who never had the opportunity to grow up around firearms, over the generations, have little concern over the 2nd Amendment. Many, through lack of understanding and familiarity have come to fear/hate firearms. 

 

I have never seen any parts of our Constitution to be political party specific so I too disagree with the OP's premise.



#8 Chicagocivilian

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 11:22 AM

I am a democrat and voted for obama and clinton and i am a strong supporter of the 2nd amendment. The 8 years obama was in office no one 2nd amendment rights was violated and many gun manufacturers made a lot of money off the fears that he was going to take your gun rights away from americans. The gun industry has lost over $100,000,000 this year. I have been dealing and fighting with the city of chicago and strict gun policies here but i have never felt that any government agency are trying to take my gun rights away maybe magazine capacity on assault weapons,50 caliber and over,pistol grips on shotguns but not taking my rights away. Fear =dollar signs and gun maufactures love fear. Bottom line Vito take advantage of the cheap gun prices these days and stop living in fear that democrats are trying to take you guns because IT AINT HAPPENING!



#9 tkroenlein

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 11:28 AM

I am a democrat and voted for obama and clinton and i am a strong supporter of the 2nd amendment. The 8 years obama was in office no one 2nd amendment rights was violated and many gun manufacturers made a lot of money off the fears that he was going to take your gun rights away from americans. The gun industry has lost over $100,000,000 this year. I have been dealing and fighting with the city of chicago and strict gun policies here but i have never felt that any government agency are trying to take my gun rights away maybe magazine capacity on assault weapons,50 caliber and over,pistol grips on shotguns but not taking my rights away.Fear =dollar signs and gun maufactures love fear. Bottom line Vito take advantage of the cheap gun prices these days and stop living in fear that democrats are trying to take you guns because IT AINT HAPPENING!


Perhaps this is the divide; what constitutes infringement seems to be different for people.

#10 papa

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 11:33 AM

There is great concern across our nation about mentally ill individuals being able to buy and own guns, and not without justification for that concern. People who clearly have impaired judgement and cannot think rationally probably should be prohibited from legally having firearms. So it has occurred to me that being a Democrat, and supporting the likes of Mike Madigan who has devastated this state, Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer and others at the national level that are America haters and enemies of freedom, let alone Obama who clearly thought that this country needed to be "transformed" into some third world nation as punishment for its "historic ills" are clearly unstable and incapable of rational thought, and thus should be considered a danger if they are given legal access to firearms. And since the Democrat party has called for the elimination of private gun ownership, including confiscation of all privately held firearms, as well as repeal of the 2nd Amendment, it makes total sense to deny gun rights to those who wish to deny such rights to the rest of us. Democrats who are loyal to Hilary Clinton, Elizabeth Warren and their mentor Barack Hussein Obama should be proud to turn in their FOID card, surrender their weapons, and renounce their right to keep and bear arms. Makes perfect sense to me. 

 

We can't argue that the 2A gives everyone the right to keep and bare arms , then turn around and say the Democrats can't because...... ect...  In fact I believe that a person who has served his full term in prison should have all rights restored.  If said person is not to be trusted with a firearm then that person shouldn't be free to walk among the public .



#11 vito

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 11:58 AM

My thread was more in just and sarcasm, but with a heavy grain of truth. Of course there are Democrats in office who support the 2nd Amendment, but as A POLITICAL PARTY they are anti 2nd Amendment, anti gun owner, anti gun, period. It has been part of their national party platform. The party has nominated and elected numerous virulently anti gun individuals. Voting for a Democrat because you support their pro-union stance, or their radical environmental stance, for example, is fine and your right. But to deny the reality that if your vote helps them to take full control of government, then you have been an enabler in the movement to restrict if not eliminate our gun rights. 

 

As to Obama not restricting our gun rights, I guess you were OK with "Fast and Furious" where Obama and his administration deliberately allowed, and actually encouraged, licensed gun dealers to sell to individuals who had no right to purchase a firearm under U.S. law, specifically to go to the Mexican drug cartels. Once made public, the same people who said the Benghazi attack was due to a video, knowing full well that this was a total lie, told the public that the purpose of Fast and Furious was to be able to trace how guns reached the cartels. In fact, the reason was to justify proposing restrictive gun laws after American guns could be linked to criminal violence on both sides of the U.S. and Mexican borders. The Obama administration also passed a rule in which veterans and any person drawing Social Security funds, who, for ANY reason had someone else designated to receive their monthly check, as "mentally disabled" and therefore ineligible for purchasing a gun. His inability to push through real gun control laws still allowed him to use his Executive powers to try to deny gun rights to as many people as he could get away with. Fortunately this latest effort to restrict the rights of those who use a "designated payee" for their government check was reversed under the Trump administration. 

 

More to the point currently, do you think that national reciprocity would still not be the law of the land if not for the opposition of the Democrats? Do you think that laws to allow greater access to suppressors and thus prevent serious hearing losses by shooters would not have been passed into law were in not for the Democrat opposition? While there maybe exceptions, such as here in Illinois where at the state level, gun rights versus gun control is more a matter of downstate versus Chicago and collar counties, overall throughout this country it is the Democrat party that wishes to eliminate our right to keep and bear arms. Some leading Democrats have openly called for confiscations, Australia style. States controlled by Democrats have, for the most part, greater kept their citizens defenseless against the criminals and terrorists in our midst. Try practicing your 2A rights in New York City, or Boston, or Baltimore or any number of Democrat Party controlled municipalities, or entire states like New Jersey. And even those Democrats who publicly support the 2nd Amendment at the national level vote in lockstep with their anti-gun Democrat brethren on any gun related vote, or for that matter, judicial confirmation of a pro-gun jurist. And then, unfortunately, the naive gun owners fail to hold their feet to the fire, and when re-election time rolls around, tells the gullible citizens that although they are Democrats, they are solid on the 2A!

 

I use gun related bills as the litmus test of a politician. Those who oppose citizen's rights under the 2A do not respect me as a citizen, and those who support the 2A show that they trust "we, the people" and that we are citizens and not subjects. And for the greater part, Democrats fail this litmus test at local, state and national levels with almost uniform regularity. 


Edited by vito, 26 November 2017 - 11:59 AM.

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#12 mauserme

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 12:42 PM

I am a democrat and voted for obama and clinton and i am a strong supporter of the 2nd amendment. The 8 years obama was in office no one 2nd amendment rights was violated and many gun manufacturers made a lot of money off the fears that he was going to take your gun rights away from americans. The gun industry has lost over $100,000,000 this year. I have been dealing and fighting with the city of chicago and strict gun policies here but i have never felt that any government agency are trying to take my gun rights away maybe magazine capacity on assault weapons,50 caliber and over,pistol grips on shotguns but not taking my rights away. Fear =dollar signs and gun maufactures love fear. Bottom line Vito take advantage of the cheap gun prices these days and stop living in fear that democrats are trying to take you guns because IT AINT HAPPENING!


My opinion is that Mr. Obama did not advance gun control not of his own choice, but out of his inablity to do so. He was prevented from doing that by many pro-gun people including members of his own party, such as Harry Reid. We should reserve giving credit to those who deserve it.

The way we judge infringements of our rights is more muli-layered than simply asking if anyone is trying to take away our guns. Think if it as being akin to the First Amendment's protection of religion. It wouldn't be enough to say a person's 1A rights are satisfied if they can read the Bible on the one hand, while being prevented from attending church or sharing their theology on the other. All of those are protected activities, just as ownership and posession of magazines of any capacity and guns of any caliber are protected by the Second Amendment.

Our purpose here is to protect and advance not just a broad concept, but every piece of the mosaic that forms the Second Amendment.

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On 5/25/2017, Superintendent Eddie Johnson predicted a 50% reduction is Chicago violence within 3 years of SB1722 becoming law.  The bill was signed into law on 6/23/2017. The clock is now ticking.


#13 OldMarineVet

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 12:57 PM

I am a democrat and voted for obama and clinton and i am a strong supporter of the 2nd amendment. The 8 years obama was in office no one 2nd amendment rights was violated and many gun manufacturers made a lot of money off the fears that he was going to take your gun rights away from americans. The gun industry has lost over $100,000,000 this year. I have been dealing and fighting with the city of chicago and strict gun policies here but i have never felt that any government agency are trying to take my gun rights away maybe magazine capacity on assault weapons,50 caliber and over,pistol grips on shotguns but not taking my rights away. Fear =dollar signs and gun maufactures love fear. Bottom line Vito take advantage of the cheap gun prices these days and stop living in fear that democrats are trying to take you guns because IT AINT HAPPENING!

You said "I am a democrat and voted for obama and clinton and i am a strong supporter of the 2nd amendment." Did you vote for Hillary Clinton? If so, that and "i am a strong supporter of the 2nd amendment" does not compute in the last election." Hillary admired the Australian gun confiscation.

Edited by OldMarineVet, 26 November 2017 - 01:00 PM.


#14 Chicagocivilian

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 01:38 PM

Yes i voted for Hillary and i truly believe that woman was not going to take my guns away from me.I am a believer in the second amendment and i beleive no man or woman can deny me those rights. Now when you start talking about silencers and National reciprocity that's something you have to ask Paul Ryan about because he is the one that does not want that bill to pass.Obama or Clinton has nothing to do whats going now.  



#15 Hipshot Percussion

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 02:22 PM

‘There are none so blind as those who will not see. The most deluded people are those who choose to ignore what they already know’ - John Heywood


“I have fought the good fight to the end; I have run the race to the finish: I have kept the faith."  Timothy Chapter 4 verse 7

 

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#16 chicagoresident

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 02:32 PM

The problem is even most Republicans and people on this board are not 2A absolutists.

Remember, the first 10 ammendments are natural rights. They should rightly apply to everyone in the world, where ever they are. And we oppose everyone in the world that does not uphold these natural rights as enemies of freedom.

That being said if you apply absolutism to the 2nd amendment even people here illegally should have the right to bear arms as long as they're not using them to take away other people's natural rights. Same with felons no longer incarcerated.

What about what constitutes the limitations of the types of arms you can bear? The constitution did define letters of marque and reprisal needing congressional authorization, so a battleship is not authorized under the 2nd amendment without congressional approval. But there's a lot of leeway in between a single shot musket and a battleship.

Most Republicans on this board would probably have a problem with private citizens owning rpg's, grenades, anti aircraft guns, etc, but all were legal prior to gun legislation. There are transferable RPG's in the NFA registry. For those in favor of repealing nfa are Rpg's kosher, or are you just a weak rhino freedom hating 2nd ammendment hater?

And don't start talking about common sense 2nd ammendment interpretations because you'll just sound like a Hillary lover.
/sarcasm

So yes, there are varying degrees that you can be pro 2nd ammendment. Somewhere between overthrowing the government and voting for Hillary.

I voted for Trump because Hillary openly stated she was in favor of "Australian style gun buyback programs" and her husband along with the house and senate at the time successfully passed the Assault Weapon ban. I wasn't worried about Obama taking our guns, or Bernie Sanders, or shotgun Joe Biden, but the Clinton's have a proven track record of outlawing guns and extorting gun manufacturers to their will.

Edited by chicagoresident, 26 November 2017 - 02:43 PM.


#17 papa

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 03:07 PM

The problem is even most Republicans and people on this board are not 2A absolutists.

Remember, the first 10 ammendments are natural rights. They should rightly apply to everyone in the world, where ever they are. And we oppose everyone in the world that does not uphold these natural rights as enemies of freedom.

That being said if you apply absolutism to the 2nd amendment even people here illegally should have the right to bear arms as long as they're not using them to take away other people's natural rights. Same with felons no longer incarcerated.

What about what constitutes the limitations of the types of arms you can bear? The constitution did define letters of marque and reprisal needing congressional authorization, so a battleship is not authorized under the 2nd amendment without congressional approval. But there's a lot of leeway in between a single shot musket and a battleship.

Most Republicans on this board would probably have a problem with private citizens owning rpg's, grenades, anti aircraft guns, etc, but all were legal prior to gun legislation. There are transferable RPG's in the NFA registry. For those in favor of repealing nfa are Rpg's kosher, or are you just a weak rhino freedom hating 2nd ammendment hater?

And don't start talking about common sense 2nd ammendment interpretations because you'll just sound like a Hillary lover.
/sarcasm

So yes, there are varying degrees that you can be pro 2nd ammendment. Somewhere between overthrowing the government and voting for Hillary.

I voted for Trump because Hillary openly stated she was in favor of "Australian style gun buyback programs" and her husband along with the house and senate at the time successfully passed the Assault Weapon ban. I wasn't worried about Obama taking our guns, or Bernie Sanders, or shotgun Joe Biden, but the Clinton's have a proven track record of outlawing guns and extorting gun manufacturers to their will.

How can you vote for Hilary and trump both? Post # 14 you stated that you voted for Hillary and in this post that I quoted you say you voted for Trump.



#18 mauserme

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 03:18 PM

Papa, I think those were different people posting that.

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Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. (Ephesians 4:31)

 

On 5/25/2017, Superintendent Eddie Johnson predicted a 50% reduction is Chicago violence within 3 years of SB1722 becoming law.  The bill was signed into law on 6/23/2017. The clock is now ticking.


#19 chicagoresident

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 03:19 PM

Because we have similar screen names, lol

Although I registered first

Edited by chicagoresident, 26 November 2017 - 03:20 PM.


#20 splash

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 03:21 PM

Lol...chicagoresident vs chicagocivilian

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#21 tkroenlein

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 03:36 PM

There is a false belief that Zero did nothing anti gun. What he accomplished through executive actions had a bigger impact than the AWB of the 90's.


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#22 papa

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 03:43 PM

Papa, I think those were different people posting that.

I see that now. My apologies to all concerned.



#23 Chicagocivilian

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 04:03 PM

To be honest if hillary would have got in the NRA or congress would have not let her pass any gun legislation.Chicago has been doing gun buybacks for years and those guns are totally illegal.This country is being run by republicans so democrats can not be blamed for us not having Silencers,National Reciprocity etc. We also have a republican governor that has not lead the charge on National Reciprocity. Silencers in Chicago would be nightmare for Rahm ha ha ha 



#24 mauserme

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 04:12 PM

To be honest if hillary would have got in the NRA or congress would have not let her pass any gun legislation.Chicago has been doing gun buybacks for years and those guns are totally illegal.This country is being run by republicans so democrats can not be blamed for us not having Silencers,National Reciprocity etc. We also have a republican governor that has not lead the charge on National Reciprocity. Silencers in Chicago would be nightmare for Rahm ha ha ha


Paul Ryan is indeed one of the biggest problems right now, but criminals are not selling their guns to the likes of Plaintiff Pfleger. Old grannies who don't know the value of the revolver at the back of the sock drawer are doing that.

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Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. (Ephesians 4:31)

 

On 5/25/2017, Superintendent Eddie Johnson predicted a 50% reduction is Chicago violence within 3 years of SB1722 becoming law.  The bill was signed into law on 6/23/2017. The clock is now ticking.


#25 tkroenlein

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 04:22 PM

To be honest if hillary would have got in the NRA or congress would have not let her pass any gun legislation.Chicago has been doing gun buybacks for years and those guns are totally illegal.This country is being run by republicans so democrats can not be blamed for us not having Silencers,National Reciprocity etc. We also have a republican governor that has not lead the charge on National Reciprocity. Silencers in Chicago would be nightmare for Rahm ha ha ha 


The people that a president appoints has a far greater impact than any viable legislation ever could.

#26 BobPistol

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 05:02 PM

I wouldn't deny a democrat the RKBA.   People mentioned good ones above, and I can add to the list: Bill and Dan Lipinski (father and son congressmen).  Good solid people.   Dan was the sole D vote against TyranniCare. 

 

But LWW's, because 1) they're insane, reject reason and don't like thinking and 2) hate guns - should not have the RKBA - as prohibited persons under the law.

Isn't hoplophobia a mental disease that would disqualify someone? 

 


The Second Amendment of the Constitution protects the rest.

#27 ragsbo

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 05:17 PM

Should they be denied the right to own guns? NO! Should they voluntarily give up all guns and not hire others with guns for protection if they say we should not have/carry guns= YES!  Big difference there!

 

And I don't thank Brandon Phelps for the crappy concealed carry law! He did nothing but make sure it was as terrible as it could be and as restrictive as it could be. Mary Shepard is who I thank!



#28 cybermgk

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 06:54 PM

 I wasn't worried about Obama taking our guns, or Bernie Sanders, or shotgun Joe Biden,

You should be.  All have either stated, or demonstrated their want to take arms.  Bernie wants socialism.  Socialism doesn't work with an armed populace.


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#29 tnertb

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 07:25 PM

If this was meant to be satire it should have been posted in the backroom. 



#30 biggun 1

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 07:50 PM

Yes i voted for Hillary and i truly believe that woman was not going to take my guns away from me.I am a believer in the second amendment and i beleive no man or woman can deny me those rights. Now when you start talking about silencers and National reciprocity that's something you have to ask Paul Ryan about because he is the one that does not want that bill to pass.Obama or Clinton has nothing to do whats going now.  

hillary clinton made it crystal clear that her number one agenda was to take our guns from us,if you did not see that i am afraid you are blind.my guess is you were so into voting for your political party that you did not care about what was going to happen if she won the election.






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