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ISP Schedules Public Hearing for Their Gun Dealer Proposed Rules & Regulations


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#1 Molly B.

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Posted 10 October 2019 - 11:57 AM

Illinois State Police schedule public hearing concerning proposed rules and regulations for firearms dealers in Illinois. Gun dealers are encouraged to attend and offer their comments on how the proposed rules will affect their business. Public are usually allowed 3 minutes so it's best to have public comments in written form also. Must RSVP to be on the list to speak.

 

Thursday October 24, 2019

1:00 p.m.

Illinois Office of the Secretary of State, Howlett Building

501 South Second Street

Auditorium

Springfield, IL 62703

 

5) Other Pertinent Information: We request all those interested in speaking to RSVP your name and organization to ISP.Rulemaking@illinois.gov. One (1) member from each group may speak for a maximum of three (3) minutes.
http://www.isp.state...ils.cfm?ID=1051

 


"It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." --Samuel Adams

#2 Patriots & Tyrants

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 06:14 AM

Wish I could be there but I will be under the knife that day.



#3 InterestedBystander

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Posted 22 October 2019 - 11:56 PM

*bump*
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#4 Kenny

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Posted 23 October 2019 - 08:14 AM

I am planning on it. I sent an e-mail to speak but never got anything back & now am on hold on the phone trying to verify they put me on the list. The person answering the phone knows nothing about a meeting tomorrow.


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#5 Kenny

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Posted 23 October 2019 - 08:26 AM

I ******* hate this state!!! I Called (217) 782-6637 The number on the letter. they told me to call (217) 782-2000 that was a switchboard number that knew nothing & patched me through to the main office, went through 3 people there & they told me they know nothing about it. The last guy took my name & number & said he was going to try to figure out who is in charge of it.


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#6 Kenny

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Posted 23 October 2019 - 08:45 AM

I am not going now. I am not going to waste one more day of my life on this shithole state.


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#7 RECarry

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Posted 23 October 2019 - 04:50 PM

Show up in person at Julie Morrison's office and have them take you to the location, as long as it takes.


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#8 BigJim

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Posted 24 October 2019 - 11:45 AM

Illinois State Police schedule public hearing concerning proposed rules and regulations for firearms dealers in Illinois. Gun dealers are encouraged to attend and offer their comments on how the proposed rules will affect their business. Public are usually allowed 3 minutes so it's best to have public comments in written form also. Must RSVP to be on the list to speak.

 

Thursday October 24, 2019

1:00 p.m.

Illinois Office of the Secretary of State, Howlett Building

501 South Second Street

Auditorium

Springfield, IL 62703

 

5) Other Pertinent Information: We request all those interested in speaking to RSVP your name and organization to ISP.Rulemaking@illinois.gov. One (1) member from each group may speak for a maximum of three (3) minutes.
http://www.isp.state...ils.cfm?ID=1051

 

Is this available for real time streaming?


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#9 Molly B.

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Posted 24 October 2019 - 12:58 PM

No but it is being recorded.

I wish the room was packed but not. Commenters are doing a phenomenal job of presenting their points.
"It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." --Samuel Adams

#10 Molly B.

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Posted 24 October 2019 - 01:29 PM

Time allows for speakers to be granted another 3 minutes.
"It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." --Samuel Adams

#11 Molly B.

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Posted 24 October 2019 - 01:33 PM

Comments include vagueness of rules, problem of off site video storage and simultaneous uploads, 24/7 recording, triple alarm systems, conflict with biometric law concerning facial recognition, astronomical costs.
"It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." --Samuel Adams

#12 cybermgk

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Posted 24 October 2019 - 01:42 PM

Thanks Molly for the Report.  I suspect the lack of speakers was because of the lack of communication to dealers about the event.


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#13 Molly B.

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Posted 24 October 2019 - 03:00 PM

Thanks Molly for the Report.  I suspect the lack of speakers was because of the lack of communication to dealers about the event.


And I think a sense of helplessness/hopelessness about being able to change things.
"It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." --Samuel Adams

#14 Molly B.

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Posted 24 October 2019 - 03:04 PM

But I am hopeful that the rules will be amended and some of the nonsense removed.
"It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." --Samuel Adams

#15 JDW

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Posted 24 October 2019 - 03:41 PM

Thanks for the coverage, Molly B. I had very pleasantly forgotten that we are once again back in a battle with our "elected" reps for our God given rights. Time creeps up on ya when you're an old dude. :)



#16 Molly B.

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Posted 24 October 2019 - 03:52 PM

All in all I think it was a good hearing and worth the 3 hr drive. Of course there was no indication from the ISP as to how they might view the comments or what amendments they might consider. However, the ISP was respectful to those present for the hearing and granted extra time to those who needed a few extra minutes.

Glad I was able to participate.
"It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." --Samuel Adams

#17 PeepSight

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Posted 24 October 2019 - 07:35 PM

Molly B.-

 

Thank You.

 

Tom



#18 Black Flag

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 09:43 AM

I #$%^&*!@#@!#$%#??!@@##$$$## hate this state!!!

---and---

I am not going now.

Kenny:

You already expressed yourself in a manner that most IL Gun Owners or IL Gun Dealers could not.

Now you need the T-shirt:  "I cannot comment on pending litigation"  and you can wear it proudly.


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#19 Molly B.

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 02:31 PM

What happens next?

 

The ISP has the opportunity to amend the proposed rules - which I am hoping and expecting them to do - before submitting them for approval by the Joint Committee of Administrative Rules (JCAR).  I believe they up to a year to do this.

 

Once submitted to JCAR, we should have another opportunity to offer comments to JCAR members before approval.  JCAR can then vote to approve or not approve.

 

Steps in the Proposed Rulemaking Process

First Notice The proposed rulemaking process officially begins when a proposed rule is published in the Illinois Register. The date of Register publication begins the First Notice period, during which the agency proposing the rulemaking must accept comments from the affected public. The First Notice period must continue for at least 45 days, but agencies may continue to accept public comment for a longer period. 

Proposed rules appearing in the Register include a Notice Page that lists the Title, Part and Sections being adopted, amended or repealed; an explanation of the content and purpose of the rulemaking; the State or federal laws authorizing the rulemaking; other rulemakings pending on the same Part; a regulatory flexibility analysis; and contact information (agency contact person's name, address, telephone number, e-mail address, etc.) for persons wishing to submit comments on the proposed rulemaking.

A proposed rulemaking is identified by its Title and Part number, followed by the volume and page number of its First Notice Register publication; for example, 68 Ill. Adm. Code 1245; 39 Ill. Reg. 14775 refers to a Department of Financial and Professional Regulation rulemaking (Title 68, Part 1245) with First Notice appearing in Vol. 39 of the Register on page 14775 (Nov. 13, 2015).

 

 

As noted above, the ISP may accept comments for longer period than 45 days, which they are doing by extending time to all who spoke to submit any additional comments they might not have had time to make during the hearing.

 

Regulatory Flexibility

The IAPA requires agencies to take particular notice of the impact a proposed rulemaking has on small businesses, small municipalities, and non-profit organizations and to attempt to minimize the economic burden the rulemaking may impose on these entities. An agency, JCAR, the Governor, an affected local government, 25 interested individuals, or an association representing at least 100 interested persons may request that the Department of Commerce and Economic Opportunity perform an analysis of the proposed rulemaking to determine this impact. Agencies must state on the proposed rulemaking's Notice Page whether the rulemaking impacts these entities and provide a final analysis to JCAR at Second Notice.

 

 

It's interesting that the ISP is required to take particular notice of the impact proposed rules have on small businesses and are to attempt to minimize the economic burden on small businesses.  I believe the proposed rules forgot this part of the process.  However, a request has been made for the DCEO to do an analysis to determine this impact.  It will be interesting to see the report on this.

 

Second Notice

When an agency is ready to submit a rulemaking for JCAR review, it files Second Notice documents. These documents include a summary of the rulemaking and any changes the agency made to its proposed during First Notice; an estimate of the rulemaking's impact on State finances (e.g., how much will it cost, or save, the agency annually); a final regulatory flexibility analysis (i.e., the economic impact on the regulated parties); and a summary of public comment received during First Notice, along with the agency's responses to these comments.

After JCAR accepts a Second Notice, the rulemaking is scheduled for consideration at a JCAR meeting within the next 45 days (the Second Notice period). JCAR and the affected agency may agree to extend the Second Notice period for that rulemaking for an additional 45 days to resolve remaining issues. The rulemaking will be reconsidered at a subsequent meeting.

Once Second Notice has begun, no further changes may be made to a proposed rulemaking unless agreed to by both JCAR and the agency. For this reason, public comments on a rulemaking that has been moved to Second Notice should be submitted to JCAR via letter, fax, phone or e-mail.

A list of rulemakings recently submitted for Second Notice appears weekly in The Flinn Report, on the JCAR website and in the Illinois Register. Rulemakings slated for consideration at the next scheduled JCAR meeting, with links to the revised rulemaking text if the agency has made First Notice changes, can be viewed here.

 


"It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." --Samuel Adams

#20 Molly B.

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 02:42 PM

Once rules are submitted to JCAR for approval, what actions can JCAR take?

 

 

JCAR Action JCAR is a commission of 12 legislators that equally represent both houses of the General Assembly and both parties within those houses. It meets monthly, in Springfield if the General Assembly is in session, and in Chicago when not in session. The time, date and location of the next scheduled JCAR meeting can be found here. JCAR meetings are open to the public and may be live-streamed at the JCAR website, but only agency representatives may speak at these meetings. Others who wish to comment should do so by contacting JCAR (see Second Notice) prior to the meeting.

 

 

JCAR members may take any of the following actions concerning a proposed rulemaking:

No Objection:  means that JCAR finds no grounds for action against the rulemaking; it does not necessarily imply approval of the content of the rule. A rulemaking that receives a Certification of No Objection may be adopted by the agency at any time after the agency receives this Certificate, so long as it is within one year after its proposal date in the Register.

 

 

Recommendation:  means that JCAR has concerns that the agency should address, such as clarification through further rulemaking, a change in rule text, more timely rules proposal, etc. If an agency receives a Recommendation, it is required by JCAR rule to respond within 90 days, but it is still free to adopt the rulemaking after receipt of the Certificate of No Objection.

Objection :  indicates that JCAR has determined the proposed rulemaking is not consistent with statute, has an adverse economic impact on small businesses, small municipalities, and non-profit organizations, or fails to meet some other standard established by the IAPA, or that the rulemaking process failed to meet the requirements of the IAPA. An Objection requires an agency response within 90 days, and precludes the agency from adopting the rulemaking until JCAR has received the response. If the agency fails to respond within 90 days, the rulemaking dies and cannot be adopted. Notices of Objection are published in the Register.

Filing Prohibition:  in conjunction with an Objection, prohibits the agency from adopting the rulemaking because JCAR believes the rulemaking constitutes a threat to the public interest, safety or welfare. An agency generally must agree to make modifications to the rulemaking before JCAR will withdraw a Filing Prohibition and allow the rule to be adopted. A Filing Prohibition may remain in effect up to 180 days; if it is not withdrawn by that time it becomes permanent and precludes the rulemaking from being adopted. Notices of Filing Prohibition are published in the Register.

Adoption: Once an agency receives a Certificate of No Objection, or duly responds to an Objection within 90 days, it may adopt the rulemaking with any Second Notice changes to which the agency and JCAR have agreed during the review process (if any changes were requested or necessary) and any modifications the agency makes in response to a JCAR Objection. Notices of adopted rulemakings appear in the Register. The Notice Page for an adopted rulemaking includes the effective date of the rulemaking, the Register citation where the rulemaking was proposed, and any changes since First Notice.An agency must adopt a proposed rulemaking within one year after its original First Notice publication in the Register. If it fails to do so, the rulemaking expires and cannot be adopted. An exception may occur when JCAR has issued a Filing Prohibition to a rulemaking, which tolls the one-year expiration until the Filing Prohibition is withdrawn.
 

Withdrawal:  Occasionally, an agency will decide not to proceed with a proposed rulemaking. An agency may withdraw a proposed rulemaking at any time before submitting Second Notice, and notice of the withdrawal is published in the Register. After Second Notice begins, a rulemaking may only be withdrawn in response to a JCAR Objection.  An agency that decides not to adopt a proposed rule after completing the JCAR review process cannot withdraw the rule, but can allow the one-year adoption deadline to expire without adopting the rule.

 

 

 


"It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." --Samuel Adams

#21 cybermgk

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Posted 28 October 2019 - 11:34 AM

Any summation on what issues/problems et al people spoke about that COULD make it as amendments?


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#22 Molly B.

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Posted 28 October 2019 - 12:41 PM

Any summation on what issues/problems et al people spoke about that COULD make it as amendments?

 

 

I would expect  various amendments to the required security cameras and storage, keeping firearms and ammunition inaccessible AND separate, amending the 3 required alarm systems to either/or.


"It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." --Samuel Adams

#23 mauserme

    Eliminating the element of surprise one bill at a time.

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Posted 30 October 2019 - 04:20 PM

We've been able to obtain audio of the full 10/24/2019 ISP Gun Dealer Licensing hearing and, with permission, are we making it available for download.

 

The audio is in 2 parts, both as mp3 files and both too large to attach directly in the forum.  They can be download here instead.

 

ISP GUN DEALER HEARING 10-24-19 part 1 is about 48 mb

ISP GUN DEALER HEARING 10-24-19 part 2 is about 50 mb

 

To download, click the "..." icon to the far right of each file name and choose "download" from the drop down (depending on your browser you may have to click the file name which will open it in an mp3 player.  There will be a download icon to the right).



#24 InterestedBystander

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Posted 30 October 2019 - 06:27 PM

We've been able to obtain audio of the full 10/24/2019 ISP Gun Dealer Licensing hearing and, with permission, are we making it available for download.

Is it OK to post these links elsewhere?
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#25 mauserme

    Eliminating the element of surprise one bill at a time.

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Posted 30 October 2019 - 06:40 PM

It's kind of a fine line. From IllinoisCarry's point of view I don't see a problem linking to our Drop Box, but I'm unsure about sharing these particular files on other sites. I sent an email asking that question and will let you now as soon as I have a response.



#26 mauserme

    Eliminating the element of surprise one bill at a time.

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 12:00 AM

Is it OK to post these links elsewhere?


Believe it or not I just got a response giving the ok. Post away.

#27 Molly B.

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Posted 12 November 2019 - 04:31 PM

Video posted on ISP website and Youtube.

 

http://www.isp.state.il.us/


"It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." --Samuel Adams

#28 chislinger

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Posted 21 November 2019 - 09:11 AM

Video posted on ISP website and Youtube.
 
http://www.isp.state.il.us/

In true Illinois fashion comments are turned off for a video of a public hearing allegedly held to receive comments from the public.
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#29 2A4Cook

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Posted 21 November 2019 - 10:18 AM

There were few gun dealers there to comment because most of them have closed shop because of this crap. Which, of course, is their actual goal.

#30 Molly B.

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Posted 21 November 2019 - 10:24 AM

And so many dealers did not know about the hearing - ISP did not send a notice out to the FFLs about the hearing.


"It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." --Samuel Adams




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