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Change to ISP CCL certificate


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#31 BrowningHP

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 09:31 PM

This is a sensible change.

Should I remove my NRA Basic Pistol cert from my application before submitting?

#32 Molly B.

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 09:32 PM

I'm just wondering if I should be filing to get a copy of the red stamped Utah training cert..


Your instructor will need to see it.


Sorry for asking so many questions, but once my instructor has seen and verified it, does a copy have to be sent to ISP or will just a copy of the completed Illinois Cert be enough?


No, once your instructor sees it, it does not have to be sent to the ISP. the IL cert will be enough.
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#33 Cougar8000

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 09:35 PM

So, now we supposed to play a role of a detective trying to figure out what is fake and what is not? What happens if we miss a fake, are we liable for anything?

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#34 Federal Farmer

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 10:10 PM

Since the UT and Chicago CFPs are fixed curricula there is no concern that there is any double-dipping going on. However, FL and other states not so much. If someone shows a FL permit in conjunction with some other training then some investigation would seem prudent such as asking them if they were separate courses.

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#35 whowe82

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 10:19 PM

Molly,

Thank you for the clarification! All your help is greatly appreciated!

#36 DG53

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 06:38 AM

Molly, What should people do who already took their training and have an old certificate? Upload everything? Thanks for all you do on our behalf!!

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#37 wtr100

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 06:49 AM

the form is nice it lets you save your basic data in it without jumping through Adobe hoops - I like it

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#38 Jsanc

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 08:48 AM

Molly, I started my app and I uploaded my basic NRA cert and the il. Cert which has the first box checked, all 16 hrs done by the same certified instructor. Is that ok to submit or should I remove the NRA cert?

#39 Telecomtodd

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 09:03 AM

I think this is all good, but there's an unforseen glitch on my side. I go places to do training - I have a class next weekend at a business where the owner wants to offer his employees the chance to take the class together. This means I will need to bring one of my all-in-one printer/scanners with me to fill out the form from the PDF on my laptop, print it out, sign it, have the student sign it, and then scan it again for the student because they may not all have the resources to scan it.

One more thing to bring and break.

And Molly - I assume that for our own records we will be expected to make a copy or scan of the materials presented to us for auditing purposes if students are no longer responsible for uploading them to the ISP. I had been going on the pretense that it was the student's responsibility, but it's sounding like it's ours as instructors. Something else to file away for 5 years...

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#40 Molly B.

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 09:10 AM

And Molly - I assume that for our own records we will be expected to make a copy or scan of the materials presented to us for auditing purposes if students are no longer responsible for uploading them to the ISP. I had been going on the pretense that it was the student's responsibility, but it's sounding like it's ours as instructors. Something else to file away for 5 years...


We only need to make note of the title of prior training certificate.
"It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." --Samuel Adams

#41 Molly B.

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 09:12 AM

Molly, I started my app and I uploaded my basic NRA cert and the il. Cert which has the first box checked, all 16 hrs done by the same certified instructor. Is that ok to submit or should I remove the NRA cert?


I don't know if it will matter. If it's easy to go back in and remove it, fine, but I don't think it will be a problem . . . .
"It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." --Samuel Adams

#42 Drylok

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 09:25 AM

So, now we supposed to play a role of a detective trying to figure out what is fake and what is not? What happens if we miss a fake, are we liable for anything?

No thats on the student not us chill out!
"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks"
-Thomas Jefferson-

Now two flags fly above my land that really sum up how I feel. One is the colors that fly high and proud the red, the white, the blue. The other ones got a rattle snake with a simple statement made, don't tread on me, is what it says and I'll take that to my grave
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#43 Drylok

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 09:27 AM

I think this is all good, but there's an unforseen glitch on my side. I go places to do training - I have a class next weekend at a business where the owner wants to offer his employees the chance to take the class together. This means I will need to bring one of my all-in-one printer/scanners with me to fill out the form from the PDF on my laptop, print it out, sign it, have the student sign it, and then scan it again for the student because they may not all have the resources to scan it.

One more thing to bring and break.

And Molly - I assume that for our own records we will be expected to make a copy or scan of the materials presented to us for auditing purposes if students are no longer responsible for uploading them to the ISP. I had been going on the pretense that it was the student's responsibility, but it's sounding like it's ours as instructors. Something else to file away for 5 years...

Im not buying that many filimg cabinets but feel free to knock yourself out. Are u saving every students b 27 too?
"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks"
-Thomas Jefferson-

Now two flags fly above my land that really sum up how I feel. One is the colors that fly high and proud the red, the white, the blue. The other ones got a rattle snake with a simple statement made, don't tread on me, is what it says and I'll take that to my grave
-Aaron Lewis-

#44 Jsanc

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 09:28 AM

Thanks Molly, and thanks for all you do!

#45 Molly B.

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 09:30 AM

I think this is all good, but there's an unforseen glitch on my side. I go places to do training - I have a class next weekend at a business where the owner wants to offer his employees the chance to take the class together. This means I will need to bring one of my all-in-one printer/scanners with me to fill out the form from the PDF on my laptop, print it out, sign it, have the student sign it, and then scan it again for the student because they may not all have the resources to scan it.

One more thing to bring and break.

And Molly - I assume that for our own records we will be expected to make a copy or scan of the materials presented to us for auditing purposes if students are no longer responsible for uploading them to the ISP. I had been going on the pretense that it was the student's responsibility, but it's sounding like it's ours as instructors. Something else to file away for 5 years...

Im not buying that many filimg cabinets but feel free to knock yourself out. Are u saving every students b 27 too?


We are not required to keep the targets - only a record of if they passed or failed.
"It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." --Samuel Adams

#46 WtJen

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 09:30 AM

Although I do not know the background on the change to the form, I have my suspicions why they did it. If you are checking the training requirements for an applicant, would you rather look at just an instructor form stating that this person meets the requirements or would you like to look at that form and several others forms to see if they have met the 16 hour training requirement?

The new form is exactly the way they should have played it from jump. IMO

Edited by WtJen, 28 December 2013 - 09:33 AM.

The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.--Ayn Rand

#47 bobapunk

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 09:35 AM

Molly, I started my app and I uploaded my basic NRA cert and the il. Cert which has the first box checked, all 16 hrs done by the same certified instructor. Is that ok to submit or should I remove the NRA cert?


If you took a 16 hour IL-CCF Course, you should not submit your NRA Cert. If NRA Basic Pistol was used for the first 8 hours of your class, the instructor completed your certificate incorrectly.

#48 bobapunk

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 09:37 AM

I think this is all good, but there's an unforseen glitch on my side. I go places to do training - I have a class next weekend at a business where the owner wants to offer his employees the chance to take the class together. This means I will need to bring one of my all-in-one printer/scanners with me to fill out the form from the PDF on my laptop, print it out, sign it, have the student sign it, and then scan it again for the student because they may not all have the resources to scan it.

One more thing to bring and break.

And Molly - I assume that for our own records we will be expected to make a copy or scan of the materials presented to us for auditing purposes if students are no longer responsible for uploading them to the ISP. I had been going on the pretense that it was the student's responsibility, but it's sounding like it's ours as instructors. Something else to file away for 5 years...


That is what we have been doing since our first class in Oct. We found that our MFD fits nicely in a cooler. The cooler provides decent protection from bumps and drops.

#49 bobapunk

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 09:39 AM

I think this is all good, but there's an unforseen glitch on my side. I go places to do training - I have a class next weekend at a business where the owner wants to offer his employees the chance to take the class together. This means I will need to bring one of my all-in-one printer/scanners with me to fill out the form from the PDF on my laptop, print it out, sign it, have the student sign it, and then scan it again for the student because they may not all have the resources to scan it.

One more thing to bring and break.

And Molly - I assume that for our own records we will be expected to make a copy or scan of the materials presented to us for auditing purposes if students are no longer responsible for uploading them to the ISP. I had been going on the pretense that it was the student's responsibility, but it's sounding like it's ours as instructors. Something else to file away for 5 years...

Im not buying that many filimg cabinets but feel free to knock yourself out. Are u saving every students b 27 too?


No need for filing cabinets... Just get one of these: http://amzn.com/B007JR5304

#50 WtJen

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 09:44 AM

Something else. Since no non-instructor applicant has obtained the 100% submittal yet, I rather suspect there will be some verbiage at the end(like the FOID) that all of the information you provided is true under penalty of law. If you fake a NRA Basic pistol course or even an instructor's cert, then the world is going to fall on you the applicant, not the instructor you fooled by your fake information.
The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.--Ayn Rand

#51 wtr100

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 10:06 AM

So, now we supposed to play a role of a detective trying to figure out what is fake and what is not? What happens if we miss a fake, are we liable for anything?


get a grip folks if it looks reasonable accept it and carry on with your lives and classes

maybe have a line in your waiver that I swear and attest that any and all documents presented are valid and correct

I know Illinois Carry needs a board to investigate fake documents - sorry in an ornery mood this AM

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#52 Raptor12

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 10:18 AM

You can upload one picture onto the application. If it is not acceptable to State Standards you will be notified by ISP (with instructions) to delete the current picture and upload another. At the present time you can upload Three (3) .pdf files, one will be the certificate from your instructor. Since the instructor verified the previous instruction the other 2 can be used in case there is need for ISP to ask for any further information, from the applicant. Make sure if you delete a .pdf its not the certificate, they are viewable.

#53 GUNS&LAWYERS

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 02:06 PM

Molly,

I don't want to quibble, but if this is indeed the case, could you remind the ISP to change their instructor responsibilities letter...found here:
https://www.isp.stat...nsibilities.pdf

It still states, "Approved ILCCF Instructors should inform applicants how much
credit they will receive for their prior training and remind them the prior training
certificates must be submitted with the ILCCF Training Certificate when they apply."

I know you are in the know, and I believe you, but it appears the ISP changed the plan without changing all of the literature.
"Send lawyers, guns and money...the $#!% has hit the fan."
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#54 Molly B.

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 03:31 PM

Molly,

I don't want to quibble, but if this is indeed the case, could you remind the ISP to change their instructor responsibilities letter...found here:
https://www.isp.stat...nsibilities.pdf

It still states, "Approved ILCCF Instructors should inform applicants how much
credit they will receive for their prior training and remind them the prior training
certificates must be submitted with the ILCCF Training Certificate when they apply."

I know you are in the know, and I believe you, but it appears the ISP changed the plan without changing all of the literature.


I have already pointed this out to them.
"It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." --Samuel Adams

#55 KarlJ

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 03:59 PM

If we have the old certificate, do we still submit the prior training certificates that it says to submit?
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#56 101abn

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 04:55 PM

I think they found out that their file server might be a tad to small to handle all the documents.



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#57 Molly B.

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 05:07 PM

If we have the old certificate, do we still submit the prior training certificates that it says to submit?


No. Just the IL CCL cert.
"It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." --Samuel Adams

#58 shawby1

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 05:09 PM

when I asked my instructor about the certificates (what to bring) he said just bring the permits ( Utah/Florida ). Thats what he photocopied and while I have a certificate for Florida I have nothing for Utah but my permit. Where do I go from here? I called ISP help line and the woman who answered said to send copy of utah since that was all I had.

Edited by shawby1, 28 December 2013 - 05:11 PM.


#59 sirflyguy

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 06:42 PM

I am trying to reprint a certificate for a student from November. His had an 8 hour military training exemption, and I checked the boxes that said I verified X hours of training (and I wrote Military CC214 in the Documentation box), and I also checked the next box about how I verified military service). I was going to correct this with a new certificate. The new certificate changes the date of the class that I entered in the box (11/9/2013) to today's date. Anyone else have issues with this? Should I just not worry about how the old certificate is filled out and assume the ISP will know what I meant?
EDIT: I fixed it. I was entering it as "November". When I went to numerical date, it did just fine. Stupid headache!

Edited by sirflyguy, 31 December 2013 - 06:48 PM.

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#60 Molly B.

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 06:54 PM

Have you saved the file off onto your computer and then accessed it? That might help.
"It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." --Samuel Adams




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