Patriots & Tyrants Posted October 6, 2017 at 04:19 AM Share Posted October 6, 2017 at 04:19 AM Lets see if the NRA can pull its head out of its own rear end on these issues , stiffen its spine and stand up hard against the antis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molly B. Posted October 6, 2017 at 04:25 AM Share Posted October 6, 2017 at 04:25 AM Posts that violate the code of conduct have been removed from view. Someone may have accidentally registered on the wrong website, please do not get pulled into whatever it is they have going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicagoRonin70 Posted October 6, 2017 at 04:25 AM Share Posted October 6, 2017 at 04:25 AM It's clearly time for a change. I carry a weapon today because the gun lobbies and legislatures have completely failed the United States when it comes to gun control. There are so many people armed, who are grossly unqualified or generally unfit to possess, let alone use firearms. It creates a dangerous environment for everyone - there is no debate on that fact. Still fantasizing about standing up to the government? I met a similar bunch of that type in Iraq and Afghanistan. Yeah, they had their assault rifles, some even had some bigger stuff, but it didn't matter - we crushed them. Think about your fantasy about fighting the government; against professionals you're dead and you're not taking us with you (that's why we're professionals). The fact is: most people who have guns have never fought, nor would they fight (rise up or use whatever word you'd like), when it comes time to act. Everyone is bold when there's nothing to fear, but when it comes time to suit up, that's when we clearly identify those with courage. It's time to end the "second amendment" charade and clean up the guns. Want to shoot guns -- really lethal and powerful guns, job the Army and you'll live your dream. You can even go into a real combat zone where you'll find out if you're the sort who fights, or the sort that hides behind the big rocks. Wouldn't that be worth knowing? I mean proving to yourself that you've got the courage to enter a firefight. It's not for the faint of heart and it's not like the movies. Everyone is asking for background checks and assault gun restrictions. Those don’t work and really never have. To say gun control is a failure isn’t correct, it’s our fumbling attempts to create controls which have failed. Here’s what needs to be done:1. The sale of all firearms must be controlled by the federal government. No patchwork of state laws or loopholes. One set of laws which applies to everyone, regardless of state of residence. The interstate commerce clause covers this.a. No more sales at gun shows unless you’re a federally licensed dealer.b. Person to person sales are no longer authorized. Reselling must be conducted through a federally licensed dealer.c. All firearms must be registered in a national (federal) database. Don’t give me any crap about the Nazi’s requiring registration, the Nazi’s had taxes too but I don’t see anyone up in arms about tax reform.d. You may transfer firearms to family members as part of your estate, but the recipient must meet all qualifications detailed in 2 below.2. In order to qualify to purchase a weapon, the following must be completed:a. State and Federal criminal record checks.b. 40 hours of firearms training - can you believe someone can own a weapon without training! Maybe it’s the Army Officer in me, but you don’t put someone in charge of something which may hurt the individual or many individuals without training.c. You must be screened for mental illness.3. In order to maintain the privilege to own a firearm, you must complete all portion of 2. Above every calendar year. Failure to comply results in immediate removal of all firearms until certification requirements are met.4. Each year, the individual to whom a gun is registered will present all guns to a federally licensed deal for inventory and inspection. a. Weapons will be inspected for modifications. Any unauthorized modifications result in confiscation of all firearms and loss of privilege to possess firearms.b. Failure to produce all registered weapons during inventory results in confiscation of all firearms and arrest. (no more straw buyers)This is far from legislation, but it’s the framework we need to maintain some semblance of control. As I was thinking about this, I imagined how tightly we controlled access to weapons in the Army. If you told me 11,000 soldiers would we killed each year by gun violence, there would be immediate actions from our command to enact controls – or heads would roll. Our politicians seem comfortable accepting those 11,000 disposable lives; but I guess there not donors or we would see action overnight.You do know that quite a few of us are not only combat veterans, but also have worked extensively as tactical security, non-governmental military contractors, weapon trainers, CCL and self-defense shooting instructors, and more right? As well, some of us have been in more than one actual live defensive firearm street situation. We know how will respond under fire, believe me. As for the rest of the nonsense you spewed, you are delusional. Not only would the insurgency in a First World, technologically advanced country possessing 400 million firearms and the resources to produce weapons and armaments from readily available materials that would exceed any other industrialized country by orders of magnitude, but we are also the producers and logistics of the supply chain that the military would try to use against us. If that draconian, anti-Constitutional idiocy were attempted, you would have tens of millions of people rising up and overwhelming the half-million or so members of the standing military by sheer attrition--if, in fact, you didn't (and probably would) have full-scale mutiny of the majority of the armed forces who would utterly refuse to carry out such antithetical orders to the spirit and tradition of this country. You understand absolutely nothing of the reality of the sheer devastating force of a modetn American rebellion against a tyrannical, illegal, and anti-Constitutional government action like the one you propose. The Tree of Liberty would have its roots watered with a Biblical deluge of blood of the likes the world has never seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countyline Posted October 6, 2017 at 04:28 AM Share Posted October 6, 2017 at 04:28 AM The Tree of Liberty would have its roots watered with a Biblical deluge of blood of the likes the world has never seen. Amen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomKoz Posted October 6, 2017 at 04:57 AM Share Posted October 6, 2017 at 04:57 AM And here I thought my response to post #39 was really rated PG. ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quackersmacker Posted October 6, 2017 at 07:38 AM Share Posted October 6, 2017 at 07:38 AM It's clearly time for a change. I carry a weapon today because the gun lobbies and legislatures have completely failed the United States when it comes to gun control. There are so many people armed, who are grossly unqualified or generally unfit to possess, let alone use firearms. It creates a dangerous environment for everyone - there is no debate on that fact. Still fantasizing about standing up to the government? I met a similar bunch of that type in Iraq and Afghanistan. Yeah, they had their assault rifles, some even had some bigger stuff, but it didn't matter - we crushed them. Think about your fantasy about fighting the government; against professionals you're dead and you're not taking us with you (that's why we're professionals). The fact is: most people who have guns have never fought, nor would they fight (rise up or use whatever word you'd like), when it comes time to act. Everyone is bold when there's nothing to fear, but when it comes time to suit up, that's when we clearly identify those with courage. It's time to end the "second amendment" charade and clean up the guns. Want to shoot guns -- really lethal and powerful guns, job the Army and you'll live your dream. You can even go into a real combat zone where you'll find out if you're the sort who fights, or the sort that hides behind the big rocks. Wouldn't that be worth knowing? I mean proving to yourself that you've got the courage to enter a firefight. It's not for the faint of heart and it's not like the movies. Everyone is asking for background checks and assault gun restrictions. Those don’t work and really never have. To say gun control is a failure isn’t correct, it’s our fumbling attempts to create controls which have failed. Here’s what needs to be done:1. The sale of all firearms must be controlled by the federal government. No patchwork of state laws or loopholes. One set of laws which applies to everyone, regardless of state of residence. The interstate commerce clause covers this.a. No more sales at gun shows unless you’re a federally licensed dealer.b. Person to person sales are no longer authorized. Reselling must be conducted through a federally licensed dealer.c. All firearms must be registered in a national (federal) database. Don’t give me any crap about the Nazi’s requiring registration, the Nazi’s had taxes too but I don’t see anyone up in arms about tax reform.d. You may transfer firearms to family members as part of your estate, but the recipient must meet all qualifications detailed in 2 below.2. In order to qualify to purchase a weapon, the following must be completed:a. State and Federal criminal record checks.b. 40 hours of firearms training - can you believe someone can own a weapon without training! Maybe it’s the Army Officer in me, but you don’t put someone in charge of something which may hurt the individual or many individuals without training.c. You must be screened for mental illness.3. In order to maintain the privilege to own a firearm, you must complete all portion of 2. Above every calendar year. Failure to comply results in immediate removal of all firearms until certification requirements are met.4. Each year, the individual to whom a gun is registered will present all guns to a federally licensed deal for inventory and inspection. a. Weapons will be inspected for modifications. Any unauthorized modifications result in confiscation of all firearms and loss of privilege to possess firearms.b. Failure to produce all registered weapons during inventory results in confiscation of all firearms and arrest. (no more straw buyers)This is far from legislation, but it’s the framework we need to maintain some semblance of control. As I was thinking about this, I imagined how tightly we controlled access to weapons in the Army. If you told me 11,000 soldiers would we killed each year by gun violence, there would be immediate actions from our command to enact controls – or heads would roll. Our politicians seem comfortable accepting those 11,000 disposable lives; but I guess there not donors or we would see action overnight.You do know that quite a few of us are not only combat veterans, but also have worked extensively as tactical security, non-governmental military contractors, weapon trainers, CCL and self-defense shooting instructors, and more right? As well, some of us have been in more than one actual live defensive firearm street situation. We know how will respond under fire, believe me. As for the rest of the nonsense you spewed, you are delusional. Not only would the insurgency in a First World, technologically advanced country possessing 400 million firearms and the resources to produce weapons and armaments from readily available materials that would exceed any other industrialized country by orders of magnitude, but we are also the producers and logistics of the supply chain that the military would try to use against us. If that draconian, anti-Constitutional idiocy were attempted, you would have tens of millions of people rising up and overwhelming the half-million or so members of the standing military by sheer attrition--if, in fact, you didn't (and probably would) have full-scale mutiny of the majority of the armed forces who would utterly refuse to carry out such antithetical orders to the spirit and tradition of this country. You understand absolutely nothing of the reality of the sheer devastating force of a modetn American rebellion against a tyrannical, illegal, and anti-Constitutional government action like the one you propose. The Tree of Liberty would have its roots watered with a Biblical deluge of blood of the likes the world has never seen. As usual, CR70, your insights are valuable and spot on. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helpdesk9 Posted October 6, 2017 at 08:27 AM Share Posted October 6, 2017 at 08:27 AM It's clearly time for a change. I carry a weapon today because the gun lobbies and legislatures have completely failed the United States when it comes to gun control. There are so many people armed, who are grossly unqualified or generally unfit to possess, let alone use firearms. It creates a dangerous environment for everyone - there is no debate on that fact. Still fantasizing about standing up to the government? I met a similar bunch of that type in Iraq and Afghanistan. Yeah, they had their assault rifles, some even had some bigger stuff, but it didn't matter - we crushed them. Think about your fantasy about fighting the government; against professionals you're dead and you're not taking us with you (that's why we're professionals). The fact is: most people who have guns have never fought, nor would they fight (rise up or use whatever word you'd like), when it comes time to act. Everyone is bold when there's nothing to fear, but when it comes time to suit up, that's when we clearly identify those with courage. It's time to end the "second amendment" charade and clean up the guns. Want to shoot guns -- really lethal and powerful guns, job the Army and you'll live your dream. You can even go into a real combat zone where you'll find out if you're the sort who fights, or the sort that hides behind the big rocks. Wouldn't that be worth knowing? I mean proving to yourself that you've got the courage to enter a firefight. It's not for the faint of heart and it's not like the movies. Everyone is asking for background checks and assault gun restrictions. Those don’t work and really never have. To say gun control is a failure isn’t correct, it’s our fumbling attempts to create controls which have failed. Here’s what needs to be done: 1. The sale of all firearms must be controlled by the federal government. No patchwork of state laws or loopholes. One set of laws which applies to everyone, regardless of state of residence. The interstate commerce clause covers this. a. No more sales at gun shows unless you’re a federally licensed dealer. b. Person to person sales are no longer authorized. Reselling must be conducted through a federally licensed dealer. c. All firearms must be registered in a national (federal) database. Don’t give me any crap about the Nazi’s requiring registration, the Nazi’s had taxes too but I don’t see anyone up in arms about tax reform. d. You may transfer firearms to family members as part of your estate, but the recipient must meet all qualifications detailed in 2 below. 2. In order to qualify to purchase a weapon, the following must be completed: a. State and Federal criminal record checks. b. 40 hours of firearms training - can you believe someone can own a weapon without training! Maybe it’s the Army Officer in me, but you don’t put someone in charge of something which may hurt the individual or many individuals without training. c. You must be screened for mental illness. 3. In order to maintain the privilege to own a firearm, you must complete all portion of 2. Above every calendar year. Failure to comply results in immediate removal of all firearms until certification requirements are met. 4. Each year, the individual to whom a gun is registered will present all guns to a federally licensed deal for inventory and inspection. a. Weapons will be inspected for modifications. Any unauthorized modifications result in confiscation of all firearms and loss of privilege to possess firearms. b. Failure to produce all registered weapons during inventory results in confiscation of all firearms and arrest. (no more straw buyers) This is far from legislation, but it’s the framework we need to maintain some semblance of control. As I was thinking about this, I imagined how tightly we controlled access to weapons in the Army. If you told me 11,000 soldiers would we killed each year by gun violence, there would be immediate actions from our command to enact controls – or heads would roll. Our politicians seem comfortable accepting those 11,000 disposable lives; but I guess there not donors or we would see action overnight.Spenser Rapone? Is that you? Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauserme Posted October 6, 2017 at 10:41 AM Author Share Posted October 6, 2017 at 10:41 AM Alright, I understand emotion will sometimes run high but let's focus on defeating bills like this and the rest becomes moot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmyers Posted October 6, 2017 at 10:51 AM Share Posted October 6, 2017 at 10:51 AM It's clearly time for a change. I carry a weapon today because the gun lobbies and legislatures have completely failed the United States when it comes to gun control. There are so many people armed, who are grossly unqualified or generally unfit to possess, let alone use firearms. It creates a dangerous environment for everyone - there is no debate on that fact. Still fantasizing about standing up to the government? I met a similar bunch of that type in Iraq and Afghanistan. Yeah, they had their assault rifles, some even had some bigger stuff, but it didn't matter - we crushed them. Think about your fantasy about fighting the government; against professionals you're dead and you're not taking us with you (that's why we're professionals). The fact is: most people who have guns have never fought, nor would they fight (rise up or use whatever word you'd like), when it comes time to act. Everyone is bold when there's nothing to fear, but when it comes time to suit up, that's when we clearly identify those with courage. It's time to end the "second amendment" charade and clean up the guns. Want to shoot guns -- really lethal and powerful guns, job the Army and you'll live your dream. You can even go into a real combat zone where you'll find out if you're the sort who fights, or the sort that hides behind the big rocks. Wouldn't that be worth knowing? I mean proving to yourself that you've got the courage to enter a firefight. It's not for the faint of heart and it's not like the movies. Everyone is asking for background checks and assault gun restrictions. Those don’t work and really never have. To say gun control is a failure isn’t correct, it’s our fumbling attempts to create controls which have failed. Here’s what needs to be done:1. The sale of all firearms must be controlled by the federal government. No patchwork of state laws or loopholes. One set of laws which applies to everyone, regardless of state of residence. The interstate commerce clause covers this.a. No more sales at gun shows unless you’re a federally licensed dealer.b. Person to person sales are no longer authorized. Reselling must be conducted through a federally licensed dealer.c. All firearms must be registered in a national (federal) database. Don’t give me any crap about the Nazi’s requiring registration, the Nazi’s had taxes too but I don’t see anyone up in arms about tax reform.d. You may transfer firearms to family members as part of your estate, but the recipient must meet all qualifications detailed in 2 below.2. In order to qualify to purchase a weapon, the following must be completed:a. State and Federal criminal record checks.b. 40 hours of firearms training - can you believe someone can own a weapon without training! Maybe it’s the Army Officer in me, but you don’t put someone in charge of something which may hurt the individual or many individuals without training.c. You must be screened for mental illness.3. In order to maintain the privilege to own a firearm, you must complete all portion of 2. Above every calendar year. Failure to comply results in immediate removal of all firearms until certification requirements are met.4. Each year, the individual to whom a gun is registered will present all guns to a federally licensed deal for inventory and inspection. a. Weapons will be inspected for modifications. Any unauthorized modifications result in confiscation of all firearms and loss of privilege to possess firearms.b. Failure to produce all registered weapons during inventory results in confiscation of all firearms and arrest. (no more straw buyers)This is far from legislation, but it’s the framework we need to maintain some semblance of control. As I was thinking about this, I imagined how tightly we controlled access to weapons in the Army. If you told me 11,000 soldiers would we killed each year by gun violence, there would be immediate actions from our command to enact controls – or heads would roll. Our politicians seem comfortable accepting those 11,000 disposable lives; but I guess there not donors or we would see action overnight. British thought the same thing, how can a bunch of farmers defeat the best army in the world. Yet, my history book tells me that a bunch of farmers founded one of the greatest nations in the world while besting the best army of that time period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C0untZer0 Posted October 6, 2017 at 12:07 PM Share Posted October 6, 2017 at 12:07 PM Its nice to have Rauner in office as a backstop for bad legislation. We obviously can't count on some Republicans in the ILGA (like Tom Rooney). We weathered having Quinn in office, I think Pritzger would be about the same. If you look at Lisa Madigan's handling of the Moore and Shepard cases, no Attorney general could have been more underhanded or more anti-Second Amendment than Lisa Madigan. The time to do something was when your legislator was having their Town Halls. I went to the Town Halls, I didn't get to speak personally with my representative or senator but I did make contact with their assistants. That doesn't mean its too late to anything now or that we have to do nothing but wait. It's never too late to make a campaign contribution if your legislator has voted pro-Second Amendment in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gearsmithy Posted October 6, 2017 at 12:17 PM Share Posted October 6, 2017 at 12:17 PM http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/029/970/trainn.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armadroid Posted October 6, 2017 at 01:07 PM Share Posted October 6, 2017 at 01:07 PM Lets see if the NRA can pull its head out of its own rear end on these issues , stiffen its spine and stand up hard against the antis. The NRA is for gun control now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepingBirdDog Posted October 6, 2017 at 01:20 PM Share Posted October 6, 2017 at 01:20 PM It's clearly time for a change. I carry a weapon today because the gun lobbies and legislatures have completely failed the United States when it comes to gun control. There are so many people armed, who are grossly unqualified or generally unfit to possess, let alone use firearms. It creates a dangerous environment for everyone - there is no debate on that fact. *snip* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmyers Posted October 6, 2017 at 01:43 PM Share Posted October 6, 2017 at 01:43 PM I have contacted my rep and asked him not to support any AWB bill. I also contact my senator and requested the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jam77 Posted October 6, 2017 at 01:53 PM Share Posted October 6, 2017 at 01:53 PM · Hidden by mauserme, October 6, 2017 at 02:09 PM - No reason given Hidden by mauserme, October 6, 2017 at 02:09 PM - No reason given It's clearly time for a change. I carry a weapon today because the gun lobbies and legislatures have completely failed the United States when it comes to gun control. There are so many people armed, who are grossly unqualified or generally unfit to possess, let alone use firearms. It creates a dangerous environment for everyone - there is no debate on that fact. Still fantasizing about standing up to the government? I met a similar bunch of that type in Iraq and Afghanistan. Yeah, they had their assault rifles, some even had some bigger stuff, but it didn't matter - we crushed them. Think about your fantasy about fighting the government; against professionals you're dead and you're not taking us with you (that's why we're professionals). The fact is: most people who have guns have never fought, nor would they fight (rise up or use whatever word you'd like), when it comes time to act. Everyone is bold when there's nothing to fear, but when it comes time to suit up, that's when we clearly identify those with courage. It's time to end the "second amendment" charade and clean up the guns. Want to shoot guns -- really lethal and powerful guns, job the Army and you'll live your dream. You can even go into a real combat zone where you'll find out if you're the sort who fights, or the sort that hides behind the big rocks. Wouldn't that be worth knowing? I mean proving to yourself that you've got the courage to enter a firefight. It's not for the faint of heart and it's not like the movies. Everyone is asking for background checks and assault gun restrictions. Those dont work and really never have. To say gun control is a failure isnt correct, its our fumbling attempts to create controls which have failed. Heres what needs to be done:1. The sale of all firearms must be controlled by the federal government. No patchwork of state laws or loopholes. One set of laws which applies to everyone, regardless of state of residence. The interstate commerce clause covers this.a. No more sales at gun shows unless youre a federally licensed dealer.b. Person to person sales are no longer authorized. Reselling must be conducted through a federally licensed dealer.c. All firearms must be registered in a national (federal) database. Dont give me any crap about the Nazis requiring registration, the Nazis had taxes too but I dont see anyone up in arms about tax reform.d. You may transfer firearms to family members as part of your estate, but the recipient must meet all qualifications detailed in 2 below.2. In order to qualify to purchase a weapon, the following must be completed:a. State and Federal criminal record checks.b. 40 hours of firearms training - can you believe someone can own a weapon without training! Maybe its the Army Officer in me, but you dont put someone in charge of something which may hurt the individual or many individuals without training.c. You must be screened for mental illness.3. In order to maintain the privilege to own a firearm, you must complete all portion of 2. Above every calendar year. Failure to comply results in immediate removal of all firearms until certification requirements are met.4. Each year, the individual to whom a gun is registered will present all guns to a federally licensed deal for inventory and inspection. a. Weapons will be inspected for modifications. Any unauthorized modifications result in confiscation of all firearms and loss of privilege to possess firearms.b. Failure to produce all registered weapons during inventory results in confiscation of all firearms and arrest. (no more straw buyers)This is far from legislation, but its the framework we need to maintain some semblance of control. As I was thinking about this, I imagined how tightly we controlled access to weapons in the Army. If you told me 11,000 soldiers would we killed each year by gun violence, there would be immediate actions from our command to enact controls or heads would roll. Our politicians seem comfortable accepting those 11,000 disposable lives; but I guess there not donors or we would see action overnight.[/quoteYour a F..king idiot. I highly doubt they let a brainless stroke like you in the military and if they did Im shocked your still here. Link to comment
DD123 Posted October 6, 2017 at 03:32 PM Share Posted October 6, 2017 at 03:32 PM It's clearly time for a change. I carry a weapon today because the gun lobbies and legislatures have completely failed the United States when it comes to gun control. There are so many people armed, who are grossly unqualified or generally unfit to possess, let alone use firearms. It creates a dangerous environment for everyone - there is no debate on that fact. Still fantasizing about standing up to the government? I met a similar bunch of that type in Iraq and Afghanistan. Yeah, they had their assault rifles, some even had some bigger stuff, but it didn't matter - we crushed them. Think about your fantasy about fighting the government; against professionals you're dead and you're not taking us with you (that's why we're professionals). The fact is: most people who have guns have never fought, nor would they fight (rise up or use whatever word you'd like), when it comes time to act. Everyone is bold when there's nothing to fear, but when it comes time to suit up, that's when we clearly identify those with courage. It's time to end the "second amendment" charade and clean up the guns. Want to shoot guns -- really lethal and powerful guns, job the Army and you'll live your dream. You can even go into a real combat zone where you'll find out if you're the sort who fights, or the sort that hides behind the big rocks. Wouldn't that be worth knowing? I mean proving to yourself that you've got the courage to enter a firefight. It's not for the faint of heart and it's not like the movies. Everyone is asking for background checks and assault gun restrictions. Those don’t work and really never have. To say gun control is a failure isn’t correct, it’s our fumbling attempts to create controls which have failed. Here’s what needs to be done:1. The sale of all firearms must be controlled by the federal government. No patchwork of state laws or loopholes. One set of laws which applies to everyone, regardless of state of residence. The interstate commerce clause covers this.a. No more sales at gun shows unless you’re a federally licensed dealer.b. Person to person sales are no longer authorized. Reselling must be conducted through a federally licensed dealer.c. All firearms must be registered in a national (federal) database. Don’t give me any crap about the Nazi’s requiring registration, the Nazi’s had taxes too but I don’t see anyone up in arms about tax reform.d. You may transfer firearms to family members as part of your estate, but the recipient must meet all qualifications detailed in 2 below.2. In order to qualify to purchase a weapon, the following must be completed:a. State and Federal criminal record checks.b. 40 hours of firearms training - can you believe someone can own a weapon without training! Maybe it’s the Army Officer in me, but you don’t put someone in charge of something which may hurt the individual or many individuals without training.c. You must be screened for mental illness.3. In order to maintain the privilege to own a firearm, you must complete all portion of 2. Above every calendar year. Failure to comply results in immediate removal of all firearms until certification requirements are met.4. Each year, the individual to whom a gun is registered will present all guns to a federally licensed deal for inventory and inspection. a. Weapons will be inspected for modifications. Any unauthorized modifications result in confiscation of all firearms and loss of privilege to possess firearms.b. Failure to produce all registered weapons during inventory results in confiscation of all firearms and arrest. (no more straw buyers)This is far from legislation, but it’s the framework we need to maintain some semblance of control. As I was thinking about this, I imagined how tightly we controlled access to weapons in the Army. If you told me 11,000 soldiers would we killed each year by gun violence, there would be immediate actions from our command to enact controls – or heads would roll. Our politicians seem comfortable accepting those 11,000 disposable lives; but I guess there not donors or we would see action overnight.This is exactly the type of elitist sentiment that won Trump the election in the first place. So you were in the army, I wasn't. I've never even had any sort of "official" firearms training. I will offer you this challenge. We go to a range, any range, and we see which one of us is more competent with a firearm. I will even supply the firearms, ammo, and range fees. I also extend this invitation to other members of this forum, to attend and witness this challenge, and to video record it for posterity. The fact is, that just because you had training, paid for by ME and others on this forum, does not mean that somehow you are better qualified to have an opinion on firearms, or quite frankly better able to handle them, than some rube civilian like me. Your opinion, a shining example of an elitist attitude, is eerily similar to the same attitude on display from ALL politicians. "Hey guys, we're smarter than you so we know what's best". So no, we will not register our weapons, mandated that we take training, or damn near anything else you're commanding us simpleton civilians to do or else. Your rhetoric is exactly why we stonewall people of your ilk. The irony is that if perhaps your side's stated end goal wasn't eventual total civilian disarmament, perhaps we would make some reasonable concessions, but instead of that, we get talked down to, are called stupid hillbillies and rednecks, that are too dumb and incompetent to own firearms. And then your ilk expresses surprise that we won't even broach the topic. If you want to start tackling root causes of problems, then lets start here: 1. The sale of all permits to use social media, will come directly from a government authoritya. No more registering on Facebook, Twitter, et. al. on your own. You must apply to be granted access to a social media account, only after your social media permit is grantedb. Person to person discussion on social media, or in person are no longer permitted, unless both parties have permits, and the conversations are recorded2. In order to qualify to purchase a speech permit, the following must be completed:a. State and Federal criminal record checks.b. 40 hours of speech training - can you believe someone can just say whatever they want without any training!!! What if they say something that's offensive!!!!c. You must be screened for mental illness. 3. In order to maintain the privilege to acquire a speech permit, you must complete all portion of 2. Above every calendar year. Failure to comply results in immediate removal of speech permits, and will be banned from saying anything publicly again until the requirements are met and you're re-permited. Wait, that's crazy you say? So people don't cause other people to do bad things through their first amendment rights to free speech? So the hateful rhetoric from the left since Trump was elected didn't cause a Bernie supporter to gun down a bunch of republican politicians? We need common sense regulations on free speech. We can't just let anyone say whatever they want on social media, because it causes actions in others. Yes, that's how stupid your argument sounds to non partisan people such as myself. The fact is that you're projecting your own subconscious on other people. Back when CCW was being passed here in Illinois, friends and family flocked in droves to post on FB that people shouldn't be able to carry guns, because if THEY themselves had a gun and someone cut them off while driving, they'd shoot the person who cut them off. That's called projection. Because you don't trust yourself and your mental state, you automatically ascribe those sentiments on everyone else. So no, I think I will listen to SCOTUS on 2A and not some elitist who thinks they know what's best for me. It amazes me at how scared of true liberty a lot of people are. ETA: also answer this one question. Which of the highlighted insane regulations you've outlined would have prevented someone without any military training, or civilian firearms training from accomplishing his objective? I won't hold my breath for a realistic or rational answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkhalil61 Posted October 6, 2017 at 03:36 PM Share Posted October 6, 2017 at 03:36 PM Lets see if the NRA can pull its head out of its own rear end on these issues , stiffen its spine and stand up hard against the antis.The NRA is for gun control now. Not necessarily they just requested that the ATF to have tighter regulations on bump stocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armadroid Posted October 6, 2017 at 03:51 PM Share Posted October 6, 2017 at 03:51 PM Who should we be contacting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbnut Posted October 6, 2017 at 04:07 PM Share Posted October 6, 2017 at 04:07 PM Lets see if the NRA can pull its head out of its own rear end on these issues , stiffen its spine and stand up hard against the antis. The NRA is for gun control now. Not necessarily they just requested that the ATF to have tighter regulations on bump stocks.Which by definition is gun control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patriots & Tyrants Posted October 6, 2017 at 04:23 PM Share Posted October 6, 2017 at 04:23 PM Lets see if the NRA can pull its head out of its own rear end on these issues , stiffen its spine and stand up hard against the antis.The NRA is for gun control now. That's where I am going with this. The NRA spent a lot of money and time helping get many Congress-Critters with R's and a few with D's by their names elected. Time to push for at a bare minimum a quid pro quo. The fact that it appears us gun owners get nothing while the antis will get a win before the 2018 election season with a majority control of the House, Senate and the white house is sickening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patriots & Tyrants Posted October 6, 2017 at 04:24 PM Share Posted October 6, 2017 at 04:24 PM Which by definition is gun control. I don't like the idea of the ATF arbitrarily reclassifying things in response to political pressure. That move would be a trek down a long dangerous road for gun owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gearsmithy Posted October 6, 2017 at 04:38 PM Share Posted October 6, 2017 at 04:38 PM It's clearly time for a change. I carry a weapon today because the gun lobbies and legislatures have completely failed the United States when it comes to gun control. There are so many people armed, who are grossly unqualified or generally unfit to possess, let alone use firearms. It creates a dangerous environment for everyone - there is no debate on that fact. Still fantasizing about standing up to the government? I met a similar bunch of that type in Iraq and Afghanistan. Yeah, they had their assault rifles, some even had some bigger stuff, but it didn't matter - we crushed them. Think about your fantasy about fighting the government; against professionals you're dead and you're not taking us with you (that's why we're professionals). The fact is: most people who have guns have never fought, nor would they fight (rise up or use whatever word you'd like), when it comes time to act. Everyone is bold when there's nothing to fear, but when it comes time to suit up, that's when we clearly identify those with courage. It's time to end the "second amendment" charade and clean up the guns. Want to shoot guns -- really lethal and powerful guns, job the Army and you'll live your dream. You can even go into a real combat zone where you'll find out if you're the sort who fights, or the sort that hides behind the big rocks. Wouldn't that be worth knowing? I mean proving to yourself that you've got the courage to enter a firefight. It's not for the faint of heart and it's not like the movies. Everyone is asking for background checks and assault gun restrictions. Those don’t work and really never have. To say gun control is a failure isn’t correct, it’s our fumbling attempts to create controls which have failed. Here’s what needs to be done:1. The sale of all firearms must be controlled by the federal government. No patchwork of state laws or loopholes. One set of laws which applies to everyone, regardless of state of residence. The interstate commerce clause covers this.a. No more sales at gun shows unless you’re a federally licensed dealer.b. Person to person sales are no longer authorized. Reselling must be conducted through a federally licensed dealer.c. All firearms must be registered in a national (federal) database. Don’t give me any crap about the Nazi’s requiring registration, the Nazi’s had taxes too but I don’t see anyone up in arms about tax reform.d. You may transfer firearms to family members as part of your estate, but the recipient must meet all qualifications detailed in 2 below.2. In order to qualify to purchase a weapon, the following must be completed:a. State and Federal criminal record checks.b. 40 hours of firearms training - can you believe someone can own a weapon without training! Maybe it’s the Army Officer in me, but you don’t put someone in charge of something which may hurt the individual or many individuals without training.c. You must be screened for mental illness.3. In order to maintain the privilege to own a firearm, you must complete all portion of 2. Above every calendar year. Failure to comply results in immediate removal of all firearms until certification requirements are met.4. Each year, the individual to whom a gun is registered will present all guns to a federally licensed deal for inventory and inspection. a. Weapons will be inspected for modifications. Any unauthorized modifications result in confiscation of all firearms and loss of privilege to possess firearms.b. Failure to produce all registered weapons during inventory results in confiscation of all firearms and arrest. (no more straw buyers)This is far from legislation, but it’s the framework we need to maintain some semblance of control. As I was thinking about this, I imagined how tightly we controlled access to weapons in the Army. If you told me 11,000 soldiers would we killed each year by gun violence, there would be immediate actions from our command to enact controls – or heads would roll. Our politicians seem comfortable accepting those 11,000 disposable lives; but I guess there not donors or we would see action overnight.This is exactly the type of elitist sentiment that won Trump the election in the first place. So you were in the army, I wasn't. I've never even had any sort of "official" firearms training. I will offer you this challenge. We go to a range, any range, and we see which one of us is more competent with a firearm. I will even supply the firearms, ammo, and range fees. I also extend this invitation to other members of this forum, to attend and witness this challenge, and to video record it for posterity. The fact is, that just because you had training, paid for by ME and others on this forum, does not mean that somehow you are better qualified to have an opinion on firearms, or quite frankly better able to handle them, than some rube civilian like me. Your opinion, a shining example of an elitist attitude, is eerily similar to the same attitude on display from ALL politicians. "Hey guys, we're smarter than you so we know what's best". So no, we will not register our weapons, mandated that we take training, or damn near anything else you're commanding us simpleton civilians to do or else. Your rhetoric is exactly why we stonewall people of your ilk. The irony is that if perhaps your side's stated end goal wasn't eventual total civilian disarmament, perhaps we would make some reasonable concessions, but instead of that, we get talked down to, are called stupid hillbillies and rednecks, that are too dumb and incompetent to own firearms. And then your ilk expresses surprise that we won't even broach the topic. If you want to start tackling root causes of problems, then lets start here: 1. The sale of all permits to use social media, will come directly from a government authoritya. No more registering on Facebook, Twitter, et. al. on your own. You must apply to be granted access to a social media account, only after your social media permit is grantedb. Person to person discussion on social media, or in person are no longer permitted, unless both parties have permits, and the conversations are recorded2. In order to qualify to purchase a speech permit, the following must be completed:a. State and Federal criminal record checks.b. 40 hours of speech training - can you believe someone can just say whatever they want without any training!!! What if they say something that's offensive!!!!c. You must be screened for mental illness. 3. In order to maintain the privilege to acquire a speech permit, you must complete all portion of 2. Above every calendar year. Failure to comply results in immediate removal of speech permits, and will be banned from saying anything publicly again until the requirements are met and you're re-permited. Wait, that's crazy you say? So people don't cause other people to do bad things through their first amendment rights to free speech? So the hateful rhetoric from the left since Trump was elected didn't cause a Bernie supporter to gun down a bunch of republican politicians? We need common sense regulations on free speech. We can't just let anyone say whatever they want on social media, because it causes actions in others. Yes, that's how stupid your argument sounds to non partisan people such as myself. The fact is that you're projecting your own subconscious on other people. Back when CCW was being passed here in Illinois, friends and family flocked in droves to post on FB that people shouldn't be able to carry guns, because if THEY themselves had a gun and someone cut them off while driving, they'd shoot the person who cut them off. That's called projection. Because you don't trust yourself and your mental state, you automatically ascribe those sentiments on everyone else. So no, I think I will listen to SCOTUS on 2A and not some elitist who thinks they know what's best for me. It amazes me at how scared of true liberty a lot of people are. ETA: also answer this one question. Which of the highlighted insane regulations you've outlined would have prevented someone without any military training, or civilian firearms training from accomplishing his objective? I won't hold my breath for a realistic or rational answer. DD I'll take you up on that offer to judge who's the more competent shooter. I attend 8-12 formal classes per year and I don't know what either of you look like so it will be totally blind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vstar Posted October 6, 2017 at 05:34 PM Share Posted October 6, 2017 at 05:34 PM “Assault weapon” ban Picking up steam now with 19 sponsors including Steven Anderson who had a prett good rating with the NRA. Since he’s not running again he’s letting his true colors show. Another year of going on defense with little to no advancement of carry in Illinois. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralffers Posted October 6, 2017 at 05:41 PM Share Posted October 6, 2017 at 05:41 PM “Assault weapon” ban Picking up steam now with 19 sponsors including Steven Anderson who had a prett good rating with the NRA. Since he’s not running again he’s letting his true colors show. Another year of going on defense with little to no advancement of carry in Illinois. NOW I’m getting worried!... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilrider78 Posted October 6, 2017 at 05:55 PM Share Posted October 6, 2017 at 05:55 PM Assault weapon ban Picking up steam now with 19 sponsors including Steven Anderson who had a prett good rating with the NRA. Since hes not running again hes letting his true colors show. Another year of going on defense with little to no advancement of carry in Illinois.NOW Im getting worried!... same here.... Been watching that page ever since I saw it posted here... 😓 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yurimodin Posted October 6, 2017 at 05:58 PM Share Posted October 6, 2017 at 05:58 PM what about reminding them that 89 counties IIRC passed resolutions 10 years ago stating that any new restrictions on the 2nd amendment would be considered unconstitutional and beyond enforcement of law???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralffers Posted October 6, 2017 at 06:00 PM Share Posted October 6, 2017 at 06:00 PM Assault weapon ban Picking up steam now with 19 sponsors including Steven Anderson who had a prett good rating with the NRA. Since hes not running again hes letting his true colors show. Another year of going on defense with little to no advancement of carry in Illinois.NOW Im getting worried!... same here.... Been watching that page ever since I saw it posted here... What is the process exactly? It gets enough co-sponsors to go to committee and then is voted on — at which point we know it will pass because the co-sponsors will obviously vote in favor of it? Is my understanding correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcelr8byu Posted October 6, 2017 at 06:22 PM Share Posted October 6, 2017 at 06:22 PM Representative Steven A. Andersson -R... Co-sponsor. Republican jumping on the bandwagon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralffers Posted October 6, 2017 at 06:30 PM Share Posted October 6, 2017 at 06:30 PM I’m emailing every single co-sponsors this weekend and following up with phone calls next week. Please join me in doing the same. I’ll post said email here when I write it. Use it as a template if you’d like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countyline Posted October 6, 2017 at 06:35 PM Share Posted October 6, 2017 at 06:35 PM https://capitolfax.com/2017/10/06/candidate-question-7-lessening-the-risk-of-a-mass-shooting/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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