DC514 Posted January 19, 2015 at 06:43 AM Share Posted January 19, 2015 at 06:43 AM So went to the Harlem Irving plaza recently and was meaning to look for any no gun signs. I checked multiple doors and none of which were posted the only no gun sign I saw was on the plaza bank inside. But back to my point. On the walls immediately after entering any entrance there is a code of conduct sign. Which has a bunch of bullet points. Far down on the list it says no firearms or illegal weapons. I'm confused. Technically no legal no gun signs are posted anywhere on the entrances I saw. But these code I conduct signs are everywhere. What would you do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmer Fudd Posted January 19, 2015 at 06:48 AM Share Posted January 19, 2015 at 06:48 AM The property owner has signaled their intent. I know what I would do....but that may not be what someone else would do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC514 Posted January 19, 2015 at 07:14 AM Author Share Posted January 19, 2015 at 07:14 AM I mean I go there all the time. And this the first time I saw this code of conduct. It's not in plain view it all it's like a 90 degree turn for most of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M3thodical Posted January 19, 2015 at 07:25 AM Share Posted January 19, 2015 at 07:25 AM The law says a public business must post the sign that they can print off of the police sight (or whatever sight). Any other sign isn't a legal notice. Having said that, I probably would carry if I was feeling ornery, though I know I shouldnt. There is technically no legal ramifications to you carrying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC514 Posted January 19, 2015 at 07:52 AM Author Share Posted January 19, 2015 at 07:52 AM That's what I was thinking of doing. But i know how Norridge pd can be and I really don't want to deal with them. But then again it's not like I will be advertising that I'm carrying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigcelia Posted January 19, 2015 at 08:25 AM Share Posted January 19, 2015 at 08:25 AM The property owner has signaled their intent. I know what I would do....but that may not be what someone else would do. I agree with this statement. I also know what I would do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davey Posted January 19, 2015 at 10:08 AM Share Posted January 19, 2015 at 10:08 AM The property owner has signaled their intent. I know what I would do....but that may not be what someone else would do. I know what I'd do and it doesn't include posting about the sign here. Shhhhhh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangrel Posted January 19, 2015 at 12:14 PM Share Posted January 19, 2015 at 12:14 PM That's what I was thinking of doing. But i know how Norridge pd can be and I really don't want to deal with them...Haven't you just answered your own question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtr100 Posted January 19, 2015 at 01:01 PM Share Posted January 19, 2015 at 01:01 PM seems like 'beat the rap but not the ride' IF you managed to get yourself pinched somewhat off topic question for leo types How much choice does an officer have in a case like this? Assume it 'depends' is the answer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee n. field Posted January 19, 2015 at 01:25 PM Share Posted January 19, 2015 at 01:25 PM On the walls immediately after entering any entrance there is a code of conduct sign. Which has a bunch of bullet points. Far down on the list it says no firearms or illegal weapons. They expect people to actually read that? I suspect there will be a fraction of those present that can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borgranta Posted January 19, 2015 at 01:46 PM Share Posted January 19, 2015 at 01:46 PM So this means that every LEO is violating the code of conduct by carrying a gun. Would they pull an IKEA and tell the on duty in uniform cop to disarm or leave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaeghl Posted January 19, 2015 at 02:14 PM Share Posted January 19, 2015 at 02:14 PM Just one more reason to strip ALL signs of the force of law. I mean, if the companies that throw up crap scribblings on the walls can still get lawfull, legal gun ownrs hassled and harrassed by their own mishandling of what should be simple 'this is the only sign that you can use' law, then the law is flawed. Is it time to start ringing the phones off the hooks in Springfield and in local offices yet? Back to original topic, that situation is tricky. I know what I'd do....if they prefer robbers and rapists to patronize their businesses, who am I to take up space in their CPZs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmyers Posted January 19, 2015 at 02:23 PM Share Posted January 19, 2015 at 02:23 PM You people read to much. No state approved sign, the place is okay to carry. Stop reading everything and look for the sign. The reason the state requires the sign is to prevent confusion of intent and what was or was not meant. No state approved sign, then you are good to carry. If the business wants you not to carry, they have to follow the law, just as you and I carrying have to follow the law. Don't make it harder than it has to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junglebob Posted January 19, 2015 at 02:31 PM Share Posted January 19, 2015 at 02:31 PM You people read to much. No state approved sign, the place is okay to carry. Stop reading everything and look for the sign. The reason the state requires the sign is to prevent confusion of intent and what was or was not meant. No state approved sign, then you are good to carry. If the business wants you not to carry, they have to follow the law, just as you and I carrying have to follow the law. Don't make it harder than it has to be. So since their sign has no force of law what would the LEOs arrest you for if you were found carrying? Violation of rules of conduct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borgranta Posted January 19, 2015 at 02:38 PM Share Posted January 19, 2015 at 02:38 PM If I was an LEO responding to a call stating that an FCCL licensee was carrying in a prohibited place then I would seriously consider arresting the caller since the law is very clear that a prohibited place must post the official sign no other sign will suffice due to the letter of the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockman Posted January 19, 2015 at 03:16 PM Share Posted January 19, 2015 at 03:16 PM You people read to much. No state approved sign, the place is okay to carry. Stop reading everything and look for the sign. The reason the state requires the sign is to prevent confusion of intent and what was or was not meant. No state approved sign, then you are good to carry. If the business wants you not to carry, they have to follow the law, just as you and I carrying have to follow the law. Don't make it harder than it has to be. So since their sign has no force of law what would the LEOs arrest you for if you were found carrying? Violation of rules of conduct? The sign clearly states policy not law. The fact that "lawful weapons" other than firearms are specifically allowed, strongly implies that carrying a firearm by someone who otherwise lawfully can is not a violation of law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedriver Posted January 19, 2015 at 04:11 PM Share Posted January 19, 2015 at 04:11 PM To my Knowledge the only people who would really be allowed to carry firearms at harlem and Irving Plaza would be off-duty coppers who work security there anyway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lampshade Posted January 19, 2015 at 04:15 PM Share Posted January 19, 2015 at 04:15 PM You people read to much. No state approved sign, the place is okay to carry. Stop reading everything and look for the sign. The reason the state requires the sign is to prevent confusion of intent and what was or was not meant. No state approved sign, then you are good to carry. If the business wants you not to carry, they have to follow the law, just as you and I carrying have to follow the law. Don't make it harder than it has to be.I agree with this 100%. If the sign has a bullet point that said no violence, would you then worry about defending your life in a situation? Ultimately, concealed means concealed. Unless they post the state approved sign I believe it is OK to carry and it's none of their business anyways. You most likely will not have to use it and nobody should see it otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCroskey Posted January 19, 2015 at 04:18 PM Share Posted January 19, 2015 at 04:18 PM If someone there decided to call the police on you you'd probably go for a ride and waste a bunch of money and time. Ultimately, those codes of conduct have no force of law so you'd probably not face charges or if you did they would be dropped or dismissed, but you'd probably still be hassled. I think that if stores are going to be able to deny people their right to self defense, they should be required to post ONLY the approved sign and the law should require them to remove crap non-compliant signage like this, or else get fined for posting noncompliant signs. All it does is confuse people, cause unnecessary stress and provide an opportunity for some overeager young LE to play Sgt. Joe Friday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChadN. Posted January 19, 2015 at 04:36 PM Share Posted January 19, 2015 at 04:36 PM Whether the sign carries force of law or not doesn't matter to me; I understand the intent behind it and know when my money's not wanted. Unless I absolutely really have to, I see little reason visiting a place that doesn't welcome me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbacs Posted January 19, 2015 at 05:29 PM Share Posted January 19, 2015 at 05:29 PM The problem with these style/types of threads are that we preach about our rights, our being legal, trained, background checked, printed, etc.We push the facts as written in the law we adhere to, including the LEGAL signage as listed and posted for ALL business owners.The local police departments should already know the LEGAL signage in use through the ISP/LAW! When entering a building, look at the doors.....no sign, I enter and go about my business.I look no further, and I ask no additional questions.....ENTRANCE doors.And this whole "I know what the owners intentions are" is b.s.If SOME of you as posters here were this psychic, you wouldnt need an app for non-posted/posted, or this forum! And whats with the paranoia about getting found out?Are you NOT concealed?Do you tug at it while walking ?Do you walk around with your shoulders thrown back smiling and your hand on your hip? YOU are legally allowed to carry CONCEALED where there is NO LEGAL signage posted at the entrance!I can see you peeps stoping @ every store IN the mall and asking the sales clerk/associate if its ok if you come in! ::::::Shakes Head:::::: I'm not a lawyer, I'm not rich, but I have been through the classes you have, and can read the LAW as written.So yeah, I'd go in and shop with the wife, friends etc. And for those who "Know" what they would do..........good job dancing the answer. If we are going to NOT go where allowed, give back the rights/law and then we'd all know the intentions of those who can BEND our minds! Whew.....Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChadN. Posted January 19, 2015 at 05:50 PM Share Posted January 19, 2015 at 05:50 PM The problem with these style/types of threads are that we preach about our rights, our being legal, trained, background checked, printed, etc.We push the facts as written in the law we adhere to, including the LEGAL signage as listed and posted for ALL business owners.The local police departments should already know the LEGAL signage in use through the ISP/LAW! When entering a building, look at the doors.....no sign, I enter and go about my business.I look no further, and I ask no additional questions.....ENTRANCE doors.And this whole "I know what the owners intentions are" is b.s.If SOME of you as posters here were this psychic, you wouldnt need an app for non-posted/posted, or this forum! And whats with the paranoia about getting found out?Are you NOT concealed?Do you tug at it while walking ?Do you walk around with your shoulders thrown back smiling and your hand on your hip? YOU are legally allowed to carry CONCEALED where there is NO LEGAL signage posted at the entrance!I can see you peeps stoping @ every store IN the mall and asking the sales clerk/associate if its ok if you come in! ::::::Shakes Head:::::: I'm not a lawyer, I'm not rich, but I have been through the classes you have, and can read the LAW as written.So yeah, I'd go in and shop with the wife, friends etc.And for those who "Know" what they would do..........good job dancing the answer. If we are going to NOT go where allowed, give back the rights/law and then we'd all know the intentions of those who can BEND our minds! Whew.....Thanks. Sir, you assume a lot regarding other posters here. Breathe in and relax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chislinger Posted January 19, 2015 at 10:31 PM Share Posted January 19, 2015 at 10:31 PM seems like 'beat the rap but not the ride' IF you managed to get yourself pinched somewhat off topic question for leo types How much choice does an officer have in a case like this? Assume it 'depends' is the answer?A ride for what? Since when does violating a mall code of conduct get you arrested? Worst case scenario you get asked to leave and don't come back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomG Posted January 19, 2015 at 11:39 PM Share Posted January 19, 2015 at 11:39 PM No state sign, I carry. I see no reason to be surreptitious about what I do when there is a non-compliant sign. CCL have been out for less than a year. The sign was probably put up when CCW was illegal for all but coppers. And note: this code of conduct doesn't exempt cops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tango7 Posted January 20, 2015 at 02:34 AM Share Posted January 20, 2015 at 02:34 AM You people read to much. No state approved sign, the place is okay to carry. Stop reading everything and look for the sign. The reason the state requires the sign is to prevent confusion of intent and what was or was not meant. No state approved sign, then you are good to carry. If the business wants you not to carry, they have to follow the law, just as you and I carrying have to follow the law. Don't make it harder than it has to be.No kidding, especially with the amount of free publicity the Media-Entertainment Complex gave the ISP approved signage after the passage of the FCCA... Not to mention that a search for "No CCW sign, Illinois" takes you right to the ISP website where the real deal is available. Is this the Jewel thread or the Wal Mart thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Fife Posted January 20, 2015 at 03:25 AM Share Posted January 20, 2015 at 03:25 AM In Norridge it would be a short ride. The police station is only 5 blocks west of the mall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2A4Cook Posted January 20, 2015 at 05:06 AM Share Posted January 20, 2015 at 05:06 AM You people read to much. No state approved sign, the place is okay to carry. Stop reading everything and look for the sign. The reason the state requires the sign is to prevent confusion of intent and what was or was not meant. No state approved sign, then you are good to carry. If the business wants you not to carry, they have to follow the law, just as you and I carrying have to follow the law. Don't make it harder than it has to be.This post should have ended this thread. I'm just sayin' ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thobart Posted January 20, 2015 at 02:11 PM Share Posted January 20, 2015 at 02:11 PM Simple answer. Do what you think is right and I will do what I think is right. No long argument needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DD123 Posted January 20, 2015 at 06:22 PM Share Posted January 20, 2015 at 06:22 PM The law plainly says that there needs to be a compliant sign visible. Any signs, slogans, etc. that don't adhere to the rules are non-compliant and if you are arrested, you have a case to sue both the PD that arrested you as well as the property owners of the mall. There are plenty of ambulance chasers that would take such a case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtr100 Posted January 20, 2015 at 06:37 PM Share Posted January 20, 2015 at 06:37 PM You people read to much. No state approved sign, the place is okay to carry. Stop reading everything and look for the sign. The reason the state requires the sign is to prevent confusion of intent and what was or was not meant. No state approved sign, then you are good to carry. If the business wants you not to carry, they have to follow the law, just as you and I carrying have to follow the law. Don't make it harder than it has to be. really? Peoria County Court House doesn't have a compliant sign so it's ok carry there? The Federal Courthouse in Peoria doesn't have a complaint sign so it's ok carry there? Now one way to solve this mess would be to amend FCCA to mirror the federal law that more or less states ~ No person shall be convicted if every public entrance is not conspicuously posted with a compliant sign' This seems like something that could reasonably be accomplished through the legislature Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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