splash Posted November 13, 2016 at 07:38 PM Share Posted November 13, 2016 at 07:38 PM Do you carry in malls that has no GFZ compliant sign but has a code of conduct written that no weapons allowed? The Posted app treat it as "Lite" Not Posted. Tried the search function and returned nothing on this topic. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hipshot Percussion Posted November 13, 2016 at 07:49 PM Share Posted November 13, 2016 at 07:49 PM Compliant sign? No. No Sign? Yes. Everything else is irrelevant. It's not my responsibility to research. The sign is all that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spec5 Posted November 13, 2016 at 08:08 PM Share Posted November 13, 2016 at 08:08 PM Actually there are numerous posts on the subject. Of course if it's LEGALLY posted you can't carry. All other what if's if it's not this or not that don't matter if it's legally posted you can't carry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splash Posted November 13, 2016 at 08:35 PM Author Share Posted November 13, 2016 at 08:35 PM I remember seeing posts about this but couldn't remember which thread. Probably it's already archived. Anyway, thanks for the quick response. I remember someone said that if you get caught, you might not be charged but you will be banned from that mall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glock23 Posted November 13, 2016 at 08:56 PM Share Posted November 13, 2016 at 08:56 PM I enter through anchor stores (Macy's, Sears, etc), and have yet to see a GFZ sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen-in-Normal Posted November 13, 2016 at 09:28 PM Share Posted November 13, 2016 at 09:28 PM I don't go to malls anymore. I may go to an anchor store (which usually are not considered part of the mall and thus, don't necessarily post). If I see a GFZ sign, I go elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splash Posted November 13, 2016 at 09:50 PM Author Share Posted November 13, 2016 at 09:50 PM The mall in question has no GFZ sign on any doors but they have a code of conduct that says no weapons allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3ddiver Posted November 13, 2016 at 09:58 PM Share Posted November 13, 2016 at 09:58 PM The mall in question has no GFZ sign on any doors but they have a code of conduct that says no weapons allowed.Like others have said before. If their policy is no guns but not posted with legal signage then I would carry on. Code of conduct is merely a suggestion at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARFACE Posted November 13, 2016 at 10:05 PM Share Posted November 13, 2016 at 10:05 PM People still go to malls? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmyers Posted November 13, 2016 at 10:15 PM Share Posted November 13, 2016 at 10:15 PM Compliant sign? No. No Sign? Yes. Everything else is irrelevant. It's not my responsibility to research. The sign is all that matters.+1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWBH Posted November 13, 2016 at 10:59 PM Share Posted November 13, 2016 at 10:59 PM Who does the "code of conduct" refer to - shoppers or store / mall employees?That said - no sign posted at an entrance - then I'd be carrying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splash Posted November 14, 2016 at 12:07 AM Author Share Posted November 14, 2016 at 12:07 AM Who does the "code of conduct" refer to - shoppers or store / mall employees? That said - no sign posted at an entrance - then I'd be carrying. I'm guessing for shoppers since it's posted in all entrances. Store/mall employees use the backdoors I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splash Posted November 14, 2016 at 12:12 AM Author Share Posted November 14, 2016 at 12:12 AM Thank you all for assuring me that it's safe to carry in these malls. Two malls that my family frequently shop are not posted but both have this code of conduct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTX63 Posted November 14, 2016 at 12:22 AM Share Posted November 14, 2016 at 12:22 AM Personally, I rarely go, but I would carry in a mall that allowed it and would not frequent one that did not, unless it was some bizzaro emergency scenario which I cannot currently even envision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyB Posted November 14, 2016 at 01:13 AM Share Posted November 14, 2016 at 01:13 AM Code of conduct sign does not carry any weight of the law. You are good to go if no compliant sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangrel Posted November 14, 2016 at 01:52 AM Share Posted November 14, 2016 at 01:52 AM If they have a sign, compliant or not, I honor their wishes and don't force them to accept my money for their goods and services. If they have no sign and I would need to read their entire code of conduct to find out what their position is, then I assume they don't mind and go about my business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soylentgreen Posted November 14, 2016 at 02:47 PM Share Posted November 14, 2016 at 02:47 PM As a general rule, I stay away from malls, particularly during busy times (holidays and weekends). If I must go, I will go in the evening during the week or when the mall first opens on a weekend. I can't stand crowds...and...if a terrorist is going to do a mall attack, they will plan it for when they can cause the most carnage. I think it's safe to say no one hellbent on killing will attack a mall at 8PM on a Monday.When I do go, I will go to a mall that's not posted. Or, I will enter through an entrance that's not posted. At Woodfield Mall, for instance, none of the anchor stores are posted and none of the thoroughfares between the anchor stores and the mall itself are posted either. I don't see a sign...I carry. As far as I know, there's no law saying you can't actively avoid signs. I actively avoid paying taxes by investing in tax-deferred retirement savings. The only thing to know is...you may become a "test case". Be prepared for that. I'm willing to take the risk. I think I can make a reasonable argument to law enforcement and/or the courts that I saw no sign because there wasn't any sign.Do what you will with this information. The risk is on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigJim Posted November 14, 2016 at 04:30 PM Share Posted November 14, 2016 at 04:30 PM Who wastes their time reading the code of conduct before entering a mall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xwing Posted November 14, 2016 at 05:15 PM Share Posted November 14, 2016 at 05:15 PM The mall in question has no GFZ sign on any doors but they have a code of conduct that says no weapons allowed. I can answer this. I actually wrote the "Posted!" app. Malls with no GFZ signs but with a note in code of conduct are not actually Posted. They aren't really making an effort to ban firearms and it is perfectly legal to carry there. (I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.) The reason they are added at "Lite" is because some gun-owners prefer to not do business at places who have made an anti-2a statement or policy. So places who don't actually try to prohibit firearms but who have said anti-gun things (in corp statement or on a sign) get added there. You're fine to carry in such places, but it's always good to know their stance as an FYI. Personally, I will shop (and carry) at anti-gun Lite locations. This is a little different from a place which is posted, but not posted compliantly. Such as "soylent green" mentioned, Woodfield is not posted on all entrances. However, they are trying to ban you from carrying. While you would almost certainly win in a court trial, this option is more risky. (It just boils down to do you want to risk being a test case if something happens.) Places like that are added as the normal "anti-gun", but people usually make a note in the description about discrepancies in compliance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmart Posted November 14, 2016 at 05:17 PM Share Posted November 14, 2016 at 05:17 PM Still confused on what to do about Oakbrook Mall... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glock23 Posted November 14, 2016 at 05:35 PM Share Posted November 14, 2016 at 05:35 PM Still confused on what to do about Oakbrook Mall...Elaborate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tip Posted November 14, 2016 at 05:41 PM Share Posted November 14, 2016 at 05:41 PM Still confused on what to do about Oakbrook Mall... Go up to the door. Look around it very carefully. Do you see a compliant sign? Yes, turn around and walk away, they are posted and you may not carry. No, then they are not posted in accordance with the law and you may enter carrying. It's that simple. You are not required to search the entire property for signs, nor research their policies and procedures. If they wish to ban carry on their premises they MUST (according to the law - see excerpts below) post a sign, clearly and conspicuously, at the entrance. NO sign at the entrance - it's not posted. MUST and SHALL are defined legal terms with specific definitions. The owner of private real property of any type may prohibit the carrying of concealed firearms on the property under his or her control. The owner must post a sign in accordance with subsection (d) of this Section indicating that firearms are prohibited on the property, unless the property is a private residence. Signs stating that the carrying of firearms is prohibited shall be clearly and conspicuously posted at the entrance of a building, premises, or real property specified in this Section as a prohibited area, unless the building or premises is a private residence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmart Posted November 14, 2016 at 05:50 PM Share Posted November 14, 2016 at 05:50 PM To clarify, the Oakbrook Mall itself has no signs posted on their doors. But, at each entrance to the mall property is a CPZ sign posted on a light post as you pull in. It's there but I would say it's not conspicuously posted, especially if you're paying attention to your driving... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigJim Posted November 15, 2016 at 03:25 PM Share Posted November 15, 2016 at 03:25 PM To clarify, the Oakbrook Mall itself has no signs posted on their doors. But, at each entrance to the mall property is a CPZ sign posted on a light post as you pull in. It's there but I would say it's not conspicuously posted, especially if you're paying attention to your driving...If you're not driving odds are you wouldn't even look at a light post and would never see the sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbacs Posted November 15, 2016 at 04:53 PM Share Posted November 15, 2016 at 04:53 PM I posted about this a while back, I'm sure it's archived by now.I also added a picture of the sign in question.A rather large debate ensued as to giving business your money vs whether or not the sign actually even comes close to being compliant! I've since lost/deleted the picture, but it was as LARGE street style sign as large or bigger than a stop style sign.They are posted on the circular drive entrances (all of them) and yes they are up on the light posts.There was additional lettering on these signs at the time iirc, and there was no border at all on them.As has been beaten like a dead horse before, someone posted that about it back then, the sign was not official size and didn't have a border, PKUS it had extra verbiage on it. They property owners are posted this, but I didn't see ANY signs on or inside the store areas why walking through there that day.I left my handgun in the car that first day, but have since been back two additional times and have not left it in the car. Just me, I'm not attempting to tell anyone what or how to do it.Maybe someone can get the picture from the archives and repost it here!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmart Posted November 15, 2016 at 05:38 PM Share Posted November 15, 2016 at 05:38 PM The sign itself (i'll get a pic soon) is actually not that big. It's maybe about 18" x 30" (i'm gonna get actual measurements even because OCD...). The law requires a minimum size but there's no limit on the upper end as long as the elements are all there. At least that's the way I understand it. So, the size is not an issue.I'm just calling into question whether or not it's conspicuously placed and whether or not it's actually posted in accordance with the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet Observer Posted November 15, 2016 at 05:46 PM Share Posted November 15, 2016 at 05:46 PM Right Bubbac, the horse's remains must have been pureed long ago. Most likely if the signs follow the letter of the law and ISP regulations, anyone passing them and then leaving their car to walk through the parking lot while carrying is in technical violation of the law. Technically, anyone driving 1 mile over the speed limit is violating a traffic law, but no one is arrested or cited for it. I am not suggesting that anyone blatantly ignore the law, but this does not seem to be a big problem. I am not aware of anyone being arrested for this in the 2.5+ years since CCLs were first issued. If there had been a lot it would have been reported on the news and here. Some people here are just being paranoiac. The vast majority of the public would not even recognize that a specific person is carrying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glock23 Posted November 15, 2016 at 06:09 PM Share Posted November 15, 2016 at 06:09 PM To clarify, the Oakbrook Mall itself has no signs posted on their doors. But, at each entrance to the mall property is a CPZ sign posted on a light post as you pull in. It's there but I would say it's not conspicuously posted, especially if you're paying attention to your driving... I'd probably carry there, as it's not likely I'd be looking for signs on light posts as I drove in. However, I have no idea where this mall is, so it's unlikely that it'll ever come up for me. As for you... you know it's posted, you've seen the signs... so I'd say no carry for you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbacs Posted November 15, 2016 at 09:16 PM Share Posted November 15, 2016 at 09:16 PM As for you... you know it's posted, you've seen the signs... so I'd say no carry for you... Yes and no, like before, those who think certain signs are non vs compliant are doing what they read and/or believe.This debate is a long running one, rife with feeling and angst, it's all good, it will be a little clearer when rmart gets a picture.But then, it will only inflame the topic again and it's just a rehash of every thread about non vs compliant.I do apologize for getting of track, what I really wanted to post was about the "CoC" posting off to ones right or left when entering a building or business. While I'm the strange one I'll admit, I walk into a situation like this and am looking forward going through one sometimes two sets of doors to get inside. I'm not looking at the side walls for information which I might need about where I'm at and what they want/think I need to know/do. I see a no smoking sign on the door, I'm all good no smoking, I'm not looking for additional information on the statue about said sign!No sign on the entrance door, means I'm in. I'm not capable of reading the owners minds like some who say the intention of the owners is this or that. If they intend to keep me out, then post the doors. Whew, sorry so long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glock23 Posted November 15, 2016 at 09:45 PM Share Posted November 15, 2016 at 09:45 PM As for you... you know it's posted, you've seen the signs... so I'd say no carry for you... Yes and no, like before, those who think certain signs are non vs compliant are doing what they read and/or believe.This debate is a long running one, rife with feeling and angst, it's all good, it will be a little clearer when rmart gets a picture.But then, it will only inflame the topic again and it's just a rehash of every thread about non vs compliant.I do apologize for getting of track, what I really wanted to post was about the "CoC" posting off to ones right or left when entering a building or business. While I'm the strange one I'll admit, I walk into a situation like this and am looking forward going through one sometimes two sets of doors to get inside. I'm not looking at the side walls for information which I might need about where I'm at and what they want/think I need to know/do. I see a no smoking sign on the door, I'm all good no smoking, I'm not looking for additional information on the statue about said sign!No sign on the entrance door, means I'm in. I'm not capable of reading the owners minds like some who say the intention of the owners is this or that. If they intend to keep me out, then post the doors. Whew, sorry so long. I'm working under the assumption that the signs are the ISP approved signs, as he made note that they met the minimum size requirements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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