speedbump Posted May 16, 2019 at 03:41 PM Share Posted May 16, 2019 at 03:41 PM This represents estimated financial costs to the most vetted, law abiding demographic in Illinois. I'm not a "numbers guy", but here's some numbers I plugged in. Feel free to comment with suggestions +/- to improve the accuracy of the data: FOID holders in Illinois: 2,300,000 Estimated costs per FOID under SB1966* Application: $50* Livescan prints: $70+* Background check: $35* Total out of pocket: $155+, each = $356,500,000 Lost wages at $15 (15x8 = 120) per hour for one day traveling to get prints, fill out FOID application, complete background investigation: 2.3 million, x120 (wages) = $276,000,000 Estimated travel expenses of $10 (gas, bus fare, etc) per person: 2.3 million, x10 (travel) = $23,000,000 Illinois Concealed Carry License, 300,000+ licensed: application ($150), 2 days lost wages ($240), training tuition ($150), training ammunition ($30), travel ($20) Total: $590, (excluding optional fingerprint fees) x300,000= $177,000,000 2.3 million, x155 (FOID) = 356,500,0002.3 million, x120 (wages) = 276,000,0002.3 million, x10 (travel) = 23,000,000300,000, x590 (CCL) = 177,000,000 $833,500,000*** ***More than the entire annual budget of the ISP, which despite tens of millions of dollars invested, has proven itself incapable of managing even the current system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbacs Posted May 16, 2019 at 04:44 PM Share Posted May 16, 2019 at 04:44 PM IN http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=72008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedbump Posted May 16, 2019 at 05:03 PM Author Share Posted May 16, 2019 at 05:03 PM INhttp://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=72008More comprehensive math. No need for lock. Reading is fundamental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyP Posted May 16, 2019 at 05:17 PM Share Posted May 16, 2019 at 05:17 PM I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I took my CCW and CCW renewal classes during my free time on a weekend. No lost wages there. Had my prints done too right there at the first CCW class. I suspect many enterprising LGS's will also offer in-house fingerprint services for FOIDs if that were to become the law, on the weekends too, so no lost wages there either. There ya' go, I just saved your equation $348,000,000. I would further submit that mighty few of us qualified firing ammo that costs a buck a round? So there will be substantial ammo saving to deduct as well? I'm not really comfortable trying to calculate in my travel expenses either if I'm being honest. But YES, it's sure 'sounds like' 2A rights still being infringed upon, which is NOTHING new for the State of Illinois, Cook County, or City of Chicago. they've been at it for many, many decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Posted May 16, 2019 at 05:18 PM Share Posted May 16, 2019 at 05:18 PM The state is broke and needs money. Unfortunately based on my 25+ years of paying taxes to the state, they have yet to convince me that my earned income is going to something good. They really push to make us criminals. I wonder how many people, if this comes to law, would say fug it and not even bother applying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedbump Posted May 16, 2019 at 05:32 PM Author Share Posted May 16, 2019 at 05:32 PM I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I took my CCW and CCW renewal classes during my free time on a weekend. No lost wages there. Had my prints done too right there at the first CCW class. I suspect many enterprising LGS's will also offer in-house fingerprint services for FOIDs if that were to become the law, on the weekends too, so no lost wages there either. There ya' go, I just saved your equation $348,000,000. I would further submit that mighty few of us qualified firing ammo that costs a buck a round? So there will be substantial ammo saving to deduct as well? I'm not really comfortable trying to calculate in my travel expenses either if I'm being honest. But YES, it's sure 'sounds like' 2A rights still being infringed upon, which is NOTHING new for the State of Illinois, Cook County, or City of Chicago. they've been at it for many, many decades.Randy, to your points: 1. Time is money. The time spent *requiring* Illinoisans to take a mandatory training course represents money that could be made elsewhere. It's standard practice to figure it in, and it's at the proposed "minimum wage" level which most current gun owners exceed. 2. Electronic prints will likely be mandated. Those are only allowed via licensed state vendors on very expensive machines, which will not be done for free. The cheapest I know of is $59, and there are only a handful south of I -70. Again, going with the minimum for calculations. 3. $30 for ammo was calculated at $10 per average box of practice ammo, x3 boxes of 50 shot during a 16 hour class. That's 20 cents per round...where did you get $1 per round??? Some shoot slightly less than that, most more. If you got by shooting less than $30 of ammo in your full 16 hour class, you were either shooting 22LR or weren't getting in much range time, IMHO. 4. Travel expenses are considerable. It's more out of pocket money *required* to be expended by the state in order to exercise a civil right. What other civil right has costs such as these REQUIRED before being able to exercise it? None, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyP Posted May 16, 2019 at 05:48 PM Share Posted May 16, 2019 at 05:48 PM #1 - I NEVER charge a labor rate for my free time endeavors, never will. It's balderdash IMHO and phony math. #2 - I have not deducted for fingerprint fees in that $348 mill. #3 - As a Vietnam Vet my DD214 entitled me to an 8 hour class. I fired 30 rounds to qualify the first time, 30 rounds for the renewal. That's it. in fact I used my own reloads if memory served, but I'm not positive about the class 5 years ago. If the first 8hr class required range time and a bunch of shooting, then so be it. #4 - I also don't calculate travel expenses to do a voluntary activity. YES - as I said, I agree that having to pay for a right stinks. My options? Suck it up and stay in Illinois or move to Indiana. For now anyway, I'm staying in my homeland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedbump Posted May 16, 2019 at 06:23 PM Author Share Posted May 16, 2019 at 06:23 PM #1. Not "phony math." It is a REQUIRED activity that many don't have the luxury of participating in without taking time off. The $15 per hour *minimum* rate was chosen for a reason. One's time most certainly is money, especially when an entity takes it from you without compensation. How much time is required by states to exercise their rights in Constitutional Carry states? Zero. #2. Fair enough. #3. Check with most courses' required ammo for a 16 hour class. Usually 100-200 rounds of factory ammo. 20 cents a round is on the low side. Most people pay much more than that when they purchase retail in low volume. The $30 is average. #4. Again, what is "voluntary" about being required to travel to exercise your civil rights??? Many people downstate travel over an hour for a class. Chicagoans are likely to have to travel outside the city. I'm happy you're staying put if you're willing to oppose more incursions. If everyone runs, there will be no place to run to. The entire system is currently designed to be a barrier to exercise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbacs Posted May 16, 2019 at 06:35 PM Share Posted May 16, 2019 at 06:35 PM Yes I can readYes this has been posted many times over here In archived threadsAnd adding it to the subject thread would give you even more arguments about it and that thread is near 40 posts Nothing new to see here, states been ripping people off for hundreds of yearsWelcome to the new norm, grab a lawyer and sue, that gets listed each week here also Gets more and more funny each time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigcelia Posted May 16, 2019 at 06:38 PM Share Posted May 16, 2019 at 06:38 PM It's all for the safety of our children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnwfan3 Posted May 16, 2019 at 08:28 PM Share Posted May 16, 2019 at 08:28 PM It's all for the safety of our children. Ha ha ha ha.....isn't it always "for the children". At least that what my village President always says right before she tries to take our rights away! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbacs Posted May 16, 2019 at 09:18 PM Share Posted May 16, 2019 at 09:18 PM If it were for the kids then why do they parade them out in the public eye to be used as pawns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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