Molly B. Posted March 9, 2020 at 04:08 PM Share Posted March 9, 2020 at 04:08 PM I searched and didn't find this posted already . . . ATF-marijuana-memo (1).pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RANDY Posted March 9, 2020 at 05:56 PM Share Posted March 9, 2020 at 05:56 PM Sounds like the FOID could also fall under that category with IL doing their own checks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockman Posted March 9, 2020 at 06:07 PM Share Posted March 9, 2020 at 06:07 PM What section of Federal law specifically prohibits the possession of firearms by non-felons who possess Canabis or other drugs? Skip the laws that deal with FFL transfers and only those making possession unlawful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbacs Posted March 9, 2020 at 06:45 PM Share Posted March 9, 2020 at 06:45 PM Does not it say that it’s habitual usersI don’t see where it says anything about in possession of cannabis Maybe I’m reading the lingo differently So no section says possesses but say uses it and other drugs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicagoresident Posted March 9, 2020 at 07:01 PM Share Posted March 9, 2020 at 07:01 PM What section of Federal law specifically prohibits the possession of firearms by non-felons who possess Canabis or other drugs? Skip the laws that deal with FFL transfers and only those making possession unlawful.The ATF sees it as a loophole because the latest update to form 4473 very specifically calls out recreational and medicinal marijuana as a prohibited substance, use constitutes . https://www.atf.gov/firearms/atf-form-4473-firearms-transaction-record-revisions Very specifically calls out federally prohibited use as making you a prohibited person. Its no longer just addicted to, but a user of. Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?Warning: The use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under Federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalized for medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where you reside.The only ground to stand on is that purchase of recreational or having a medical card does not always imply use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet Observer Posted March 9, 2020 at 07:11 PM Share Posted March 9, 2020 at 07:11 PM Identify Prohibited PersonsThe Gun Control Act (GCA), codified at 18 U.S.C. § 922(g), makes it unlawful for certain categories of persons to ship, transport, receive, or possess firearms or ammunition, to include any person:convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;who is a fugitive from justice;who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act, codified at 21 U.S.C. § 802);who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution;who is an illegal alien;who has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions;who has renounced his or her United States citizenship;who is subject to a court order restraining the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of the intimate partner; orwho has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.https://www.atf.gov/firearms/identify-prohibited-persons Per federal law there are no lawful users of marijuana.https://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/federal-marijuana-laws.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybermgk Posted March 9, 2020 at 07:13 PM Share Posted March 9, 2020 at 07:13 PM What section of Federal law specifically prohibits the possession of firearms by non-felons who possess Canabis or other drugs? Skip the laws that deal with FFL transfers and only those making possession unlawful. Does not it say that it’s habitual usersI don’t see where it says anything about in possession of cannabis Maybe I’m reading the lingo differently So no section says possesses but say uses it and other drugsThe memo points to below, which says: "(3)who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802));" https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922 But the Memo is about transfers. THe memo is just stating that Michigan FFLs can no longer transfer to holders of a Concealed Pistol License, without a NICS check, using the CPL in lieu of the NICS, because they don't check for Misdemeanor Domestic abuse conviction, and 'habitual marijuana users'.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybermgk Posted March 9, 2020 at 07:14 PM Share Posted March 9, 2020 at 07:14 PM Sounds like the FOID could also fall under that category with IL doing their own checks.No, because, you still have to do a NICS check, when buying a firearm from an FFL, or an FFL does a transfer to you. In our case, the FOID allows us to even do the NICS check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Posted March 9, 2020 at 07:55 PM Share Posted March 9, 2020 at 07:55 PM Does not it say that it’s habitual usersI don’t see where it says anything about in possession of cannabis Maybe I’m reading the lingo differently So no section says possesses but say uses it and other drugsWhere can I find the definition of a habitual user? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicagoresident Posted March 9, 2020 at 08:36 PM Share Posted March 9, 2020 at 08:36 PM Does not it say that it’s habitual usersI don’t see where it says anything about in possession of cannabisMaybe I’m reading the lingo differentlySo no section says possesses but say uses it and other drugs Where can I find the definition of a habitual user?You don’t need to, they’ve clarified it to very specifically say an unlawful user of federally outlawed marijuana. There’s also statute of limitations on unlawful possession (which again is federally illegal) of 3 years. You may have some legal challenge on use vs possession, but keep in mind in the ATF’s eyes since possession is illegal that would likely constitute illegal use. Its stupid they keep doubling down on it, but if they’ve rescinded decisions and reprinted forms it means they’re out to get people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flynn Posted March 9, 2020 at 09:06 PM Share Posted March 9, 2020 at 09:06 PM I could see the FOID and Illinois being a target for similar actions sooner than later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POAT54 Posted March 9, 2020 at 09:32 PM Share Posted March 9, 2020 at 09:32 PM I could see the FOID and Illinois being a target for similar actions sooner than later.+1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euler Posted March 9, 2020 at 09:48 PM Share Posted March 9, 2020 at 09:48 PM The FOID/CCL has never been a substitute for a NICS/FTIP check. Previously in MI, a purchaser could show an FFL his MI CPL to skip the NICS check. (Similar things are true in other states, too.) Now the ATF has said MI FFLs can't skip the NICS check anymore. It's certainly possible that the ATF may tell FFLs in those other states the same thing, but that won't affect IL firearm owners (and FFLs), since we already get checked daily, whether we're buying firearms or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyP Posted March 9, 2020 at 10:08 PM Share Posted March 9, 2020 at 10:08 PM I really don't understand the 'confusion'. Wacky weed was, is and remains ILLEGAL on the Federal level. If one wants to participate in a Federally influenced action, like filling out a proper 4473 form to purchase a firearm, and NOT commit perjury, one needs to leave the burning bush in the bible with Moses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flynn Posted March 9, 2020 at 11:21 PM Share Posted March 9, 2020 at 11:21 PM The FOID/CCL has never been a substitute for a NICS/FTIP check. Previously in MI, a purchaser could show an FFL his MI CPL to skip the NICS check. (Similar things are true in other states, too.) Now the ATF has said MI FFLs can't skip the NICS check anymore. It's certainly possible that the ATF may tell FFLs in those other states the same thing, but that won't affect IL firearm owners (and FFLs), since we already get checked daily, whether we're buying firearms or not. That doesn't mean the ATF could not pursue similar 'ignore marijuana in regards to firearms' regulations against the FOID and IL, in fact as more and more states choose to ignore Federal law, I see two next step scenerios possible, the bubble burst and the Feds get tough on the states or the Feds legalize it and right now what way that goes isn't something I would bet on. I honestly don't see the Feds continuing to allow states to ignore the Federal prohibition, something is going to snap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockman Posted March 10, 2020 at 12:01 AM Share Posted March 10, 2020 at 12:01 AM How can the government label you an unlawful user or unlawful possession without bringing charges and obtaining a conviction? If I rob banks and the feds suspect I rob banks shouldn’t they arrest me? Or should they just call me a bank robber, strip me of my ability to buy guns, and ignore my continuing bank robbery activity? ^ this *** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euler Posted March 10, 2020 at 01:27 AM Share Posted March 10, 2020 at 01:27 AM That doesn't mean the ATF could not pursue similar 'ignore marijuana in regards to firearms' regulations against the FOID and IL... That's not what the ATF is doing in Michigan, although it could be interpreted as a step in that direction. The ATF is only revoking the permission it had previously given FFLs to skip NICS checks for licensed concealed carriers. The ATF said the reason for revoking the permission is that there could be misdemeanor domestic abuse or drug possession charges entered in NICS which could otherwise go unnoticed, because (apparently) those aren't disqualifying conditions for getting a MI carry license, but they're still disqualifying conditions under federal law to own and carry firearms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybermgk Posted March 10, 2020 at 02:03 PM Share Posted March 10, 2020 at 02:03 PM The FOID/CCL has never been a substitute for a NICS/FTIP check. Previously in MI, a purchaser could show an FFL his MI CPL to skip the NICS check. (Similar things are true in other states, too.) Now the ATF has said MI FFLs can't skip the NICS check anymore. It's certainly possible that the ATF may tell FFLs in those other states the same thing, but that won't affect IL firearm owners (and FFLs), since we already get checked daily, whether we're buying firearms or not.AND, we still have to do a NICS check with the FFL before they transfer. We aren't using the FOID (or CCL) in lieu of NICS check ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybermgk Posted March 10, 2020 at 02:05 PM Share Posted March 10, 2020 at 02:05 PM That doesn't mean the ATF could not pursue similar 'ignore marijuana in regards to firearms' regulations against the FOID and IL...That's not what the ATF is doing in Michigan, although it could be interpreted as a step in that direction. The ATF is only revoking the permission it had previously given FFLs to skip NICS checks for licensed concealed carriers. The ATF said the reason for revoking the permission is that there could be misdemeanor domestic abuse or drug possession charges entered in NICS which could otherwise go unnoticed, because (apparently) those aren't disqualifying conditions for getting a MI carry license, but they're still disqualifying conditions under federal law to own and carry firearms. exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euler Posted March 12, 2020 at 03:38 AM Share Posted March 12, 2020 at 03:38 AM GOA has filed a complaint with the ATF over the Michigan safety advisory. Apparently Minnesota and Alabama recently got them, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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