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need help on sons science project


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#1 222 rem mag

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 07:54 AM

My son is doing a science project on ballistics and the how and why of why body armour does or doesnt work in different situations with diff calibers. I am proud of him for actually coming up with a good idea for a project and am amazed the s hool is allowing it. I am also proud it was inspired by a friend in the marines who had a round penetrate his armour in afganistan.
Now that I am done being proud I have to run down supplies for his project. Looking for old or outdated vest. 2 or 3 a is fine. Also looking for a couple round of milsurp 9x18 makarov ammo. I have new loaded ammo but he is testing a report that some of the milsurp will penetrate soft armour. Only need bout three rounds. If anyone can help at reasonable price it would be much appreciated

#2 mikew

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 08:02 AM

you might include 7,62x25 Tokarov ammo.



#3 Neumann

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 08:29 AM

How will this pass muster for a school project when kids are tossed out for gun-shaped Pop Tarts, or pointing a finger? 

 

Anything that is pointy enough, hard enough or traveling fast enough will go through soft armor. Even hard armor (e.g., a tank) is not immune. It is historically easier and cheaper to defeat armor than to design and manufacture it. Soft armor is designed to resist common handgun bullets. Specifications for this resistance is public information. Wikipedia is your friend.

 

I'm going to hold back my thoughts regarding the social responsibility of this "project."


Edited by Neumann, 08 September 2017 - 08:30 AM.


#4 BigJim

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 08:44 AM

I would include 5.56x45 since it's a standard NATO round.


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#5 222 rem mag

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 09:16 AM

Using 5.56 as one of our test calibers. Would love to have included 7.62 tokarev but it was not in the budget for pur hasing new pistol. And neuman I was surprised as well. But the school is alright with it as long as all testing is done off sight at the rotc range at local colledge. Teacher arranged range time. Project will be presented in video format with all firearm materials kept of sight.
As far as the social reponsibility of the project we will not be presenting anything that is not allready commonly available information. However he will be oncentrating on the physics of what is going on and why when armour is impacted and why things happen as they do. This is not a how to shoot through armour course. I expect the armour to fail at some point but that is not the final goal

#6 stm

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 10:12 AM

A couple thoughts: Check with some local PD's. They sometimes have old or expired body armor and may be willing to donate it to a worthy cause. Have your son check his results against NIJ criteria and their testing results. While his research goals may be different, referencing NIJ testing would only enhance the credibility of his paper. Lastly, please keep in mind that most soft body armor "expires" after five years of service. Exposure to sweat, heat, and even UV light will degrade the ballistic material over time, and it's "stopping power" may not be the same as body armor currently in service. Good luck with the project! I think it's a great idea. I have never witnessed live testing like this, but I have seen the results. 12 gage slugs are devastating!

yea everyone makes fun of the redneck till the zombies show up. . .


#7 222 rem mag

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 10:42 AM

That is my next stop with the pds. Checking tonight with a retired state.trooper that I study jujitsu with. He said last week he would see if he could come up with one

#8 mikew

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 10:56 AM

I would imagine that body armor reacts differently when actually worn on a body.

 

Perhaps an appropriate (or inappropriate) recently dispatched animal could wear the vest.



#9 stm

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 11:52 AM

I would imagine that body armor reacts differently when actually worn on a body.
 
Perhaps an appropriate (or inappropriate) recently dispatched animal could wear the vest.

I think one informal test done locally used watermelons.

yea everyone makes fun of the redneck till the zombies show up. . .


#10 222 rem mag

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 12:29 PM

Was planning on using homemade 10% balistic gel block for backing material in order to try and catch any pentrating bullets to examine to see how they held up and to infer if bullet shape and consrtuction play into performance. I suspect it does but it is part of what son is trying to test with project. Funny note aside I spent an hour last night explaning sectional density and how it relates to penetration in projectiles to my son

#11 ChicagoRonin70

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 12:36 PM

 

I would imagine that body armor reacts differently when actually worn on a body.
 
Perhaps an appropriate (or inappropriate) recently dispatched animal could wear the vest.

I think one informal test done locally used watermelons.

 

 

I did my testing using whole pig carcasses, including ones wearing level II and IIIA ballistic protection.


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#12 kster

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 12:37 PM

only thing i can contribute is half a box of silver bear makarov.   

 

perhaps try to talk with game warden or highway patrol to get a roadkill corpse



#13 222 rem mag

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 12:52 PM

I have some wolf.polyformance but it is bottom of barrel lol

#14 kster

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 02:48 PM

silver bear and wolf is the same barrel ain't it?  heh   



#15 222 rem mag

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 11:28 AM

Aquired vest this weekend. Ordered some buffalo bore ammo. From what I can tell it ballisticly is fairly close to soviet surplus ball ammo

#16 Hatchet

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 12:32 PM

Just a thought. If you have good, expired, and really expired vests. Maybe a test comparison between good vests and expired? How they might fail with age.


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