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Gun Laws Prevent Officers From Seeking Help


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#1 mauserme

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 07:35 AM

https://www.wbez.org...a2-2906017b5e37
 


WBEZ News
 

Chicago’s Top Cop Says Gun Laws Prevent Officers From Seeking Help For Mental Illness


Miles Bryan
August 25, 2017
 
In Chicago, police officers are required to purchase their service guns. That means they also must have an Illinois Firearm Owner’s Identification card, known as a FOID card.
 
Chicago Police Superintendent Eddie Johnson said on Friday that one of the requirements for a FOID card could also be preventing some officers from getting mental health treatment.
 
According to state law, residents who have received inpatient treatment for mental illness in the past five years are barred from getting a FOID card. And those cards can be revoked: medical professionals must report anyone who voluntarily checked into a psychiatric unit. 
 
Johnson said those laws discourage police officers from seeking mental illness treatment.
 
“If we punish officers for seeking treatment ... what message are we sending?” Johnson asked during an unrelated press conference Friday. “We are telling them then that, if you ask for help, we are going to punish you by taking your job away.”
 
...
 
State Police Director Leo Schmitz and Johnson “have discussed that any changes to the FOID act would require legislative changes,” said Master Sgt. Jason Bradley, a state police spokesman.

 
 
Insert "Illinois gun owner" for "officer" and you'd have a bill we could support.

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Link to ILGA House Audio/Video..........Link to ILGA Senate Audio/Video ..........Advanced Digital Media Link ..........Blue Room Stream Link

Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. (Ephesians 4:31)

 

On 5/25/2017, Superintendent Eddie Johnson predicted a 50% reduction is Chicago violence within 3 years of SB1722 becoming law.  The bill was signed into law on 6/23/2017. The clock is now ticking.


#2 luckydawg13

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 07:55 AM

Insert "Illinois gun owner" for "officer" and you'd have a bill we could support.   +1


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#3 mikeyk101

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 08:08 AM

It is actually Chicago that created this issue. Technically, all Illinois police officers are exempt from the FOID Act. Whether right or wrong, it is there. As long as they are performing a police function, a FOID card is not needed. Then in steps the Legal Department from City of Chicago. About 15 years or so ago, they decided that even if an officer is on the clock, if he/she takes a personal (a break to grab lunch or maybe a quick stop at store to buy something), they are no longer performing a police function and therefore because they are armed, they are in violation of the FOID act. They then required all Chicago Police Officers to obtain FOID cards in order to be compliiant. This sudden surge caused all kinds of headaches down at the ILL State Police FOID section. The reality is that whether on duty or off duty, CPD are required to take police action if observing a crime. That means that they are always watching and supposed to be observant which means they are really on duty all the time. But by requiring CPD to posses FOID cards, the legal department created this unfortunate situation. And surprisingly, Chicago has kept gun registration law in place. But the ONLY ones bound by it are Chicago Police officers and it doesnt matter if it is a duty related or non duty related firearm. All firearms owned by CPD officers are required to be registered...

#4 mauserme

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 08:16 AM

It would be beneficial, though, to recognize that many gun owners in this state fear getting the treatment they need because of the almost certain loss of rights.

 

In the past few years the anti-gun crowd lumped suicides in their statistics to bolster their arguments.  If they're serious about finding a solution to the now 60% to 70% of homicides involving a firearm actually being a suicide, then they need to acknowledge that people must have the freedom to seek the treatment they deserve.  Everyone, not just sworn officers.


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Link to ILGA House Audio/Video..........Link to ILGA Senate Audio/Video ..........Advanced Digital Media Link ..........Blue Room Stream Link

Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. (Ephesians 4:31)

 

On 5/25/2017, Superintendent Eddie Johnson predicted a 50% reduction is Chicago violence within 3 years of SB1722 becoming law.  The bill was signed into law on 6/23/2017. The clock is now ticking.


#5 mikeyk101

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 08:32 AM

Absolutely!

I was just pointing out the mis reporting and leaving out key facts...

Edited by mikeyk101, 26 August 2017 - 08:33 AM.


#6 mauserme

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 08:39 AM

Absolutely!

I was just pointing out the mis reporting and leaving out key facts...

 

Oh, I know.  Didn't mean to imply otherwise.


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Link to ILGA House Audio/Video..........Link to ILGA Senate Audio/Video ..........Advanced Digital Media Link ..........Blue Room Stream Link

Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. (Ephesians 4:31)

 

On 5/25/2017, Superintendent Eddie Johnson predicted a 50% reduction is Chicago violence within 3 years of SB1722 becoming law.  The bill was signed into law on 6/23/2017. The clock is now ticking.


#7 stockboyy

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 08:40 AM

ASK NOT how the FOID-ACT has INFRINGED on you.

--BUT 



#8 Teufel Hunden

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 09:20 AM

Perhaps the state should consider scrapping the failed FOID card scheme and addressing the violence and murder problem in the state by putting violent gang members and criminals in prison instead of harassing law abiding citizens. Crazy thought, I know...

#9 Molly B.

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 09:28 AM

Officers already received expedited status - above and beyond non-officers:
 

 

    (c-5) (1) An active law enforcement officer employed by a unit of government, who is denied, revoked, or has his or her Firearm Owner's Identification Card seized under subsection (e) of Section 8 of this Act may apply to the Director of State Police requesting relief if the officer did not act in a manner threatening to the officer, another person, or the public as determined by the treating clinical psychologist or physician, and as a result of his or her work is referred by the employer for or voluntarily seeks mental health evaluation or treatment by a licensed clinical psychologist, psychiatrist, or qualified examiner, and:
        (A) the officer has not received treatment
    
involuntarily at a mental health facility, regardless of the length of admission; or has not been voluntarily admitted to a mental health facility for more than 30 days and not for more than one incident within the past 5 years; and
        (B] the officer has not left the mental institution
    
against medical advice.
    (2) The Director of State Police shall grant expedited relief to active law enforcement officers described in paragraph (1) of this subsection (c-5) upon a determination by the Director that the officer's possession of a firearm does not present a threat to themselves, others, or public safety. The Director shall act on the request for relief within 30 business days of receipt of:
        (A) a notarized statement from the officer in the
    
form prescribed by the Director detailing the circumstances that led to the hospitalization;
        (B] all documentation regarding the admission,
    
evaluation, treatment and discharge from the treating licensed clinical psychologist or psychiatrist of the officer;
        © a psychological fitness for duty evaluation of
    
the person completed after the time of discharge; and
        (D) written confirmation in the form prescribed by
    
the Director from the treating licensed clinical psychologist or psychiatrist that the provisions set forth in paragraph (1) of this subsection (c-5) have been met, the person successfully completed treatment, and their professional opinion regarding the person's ability to possess firearms.
    (3) Officers eligible for the expedited relief in paragraph (2) of this subsection (c-5) have the burden of proof on eligibility and must provide all information required. The Director may not consider granting expedited relief until the proof and information is received.

 

 

 


"It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." --Samuel Adams

#10 BobPistol

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 09:37 AM

This law is also giving a backhanded slap at the psychological industry.

 

If someone is having mental issues and gets treatment, and are apparently OK, they are deemed not worthy of having the RKBA.   So what they are saying is that psychology/psychiatry is such a pseudoscience, that it can't possible help anyone, and nobody can benefit from it, and getting treatment is proof that one has not been healed.   In other words, psychology/psychiatry does not work.

 

I'm surprised the psychological industry doesn't object to the law.   But nope.  They are OK with being insulted. 


The Second Amendment of the Constitution protects the rest.

#11 stockboyy

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 10:00 AM

Officers already received expedited status - above and beyond non-officers:
 

 

    (c-5) (1) An active law enforcement officer employed by a unit of government, who is denied, revoked, or has his or her Firearm Owner's Identification Card seized under subsection (e) of Section 8 of this Act may apply to the Director of State Police requesting relief if the officer did not act in a manner threatening to the officer, another person, or the public as determined by the treating clinical psychologist or physician, and as a result of his or her work is referred by the employer for or voluntarily seeks mental health evaluation or treatment by a licensed clinical psychologist, psychiatrist, or qualified examiner, and:
        (A) the officer has not received treatment
    
involuntarily at a mental health facility, regardless of the length of admission; or has not been voluntarily admitted to a mental health facility for more than 30 days and not for more than one incident within the past 5 years; and
        (B] the officer has not left the mental institution
    
against medical advice.
    (2) The Director of State Police shall grant expedited relief to active law enforcement officers described in paragraph (1) of this subsection (c-5) upon a determination by the Director that the officer's possession of a firearm does not present a threat to themselves, others, or public safety. The Director shall act on the request for relief within 30 business days of receipt of:
        (A) a notarized statement from the officer in the
    
form prescribed by the Director detailing the circumstances that led to the hospitalization;
        (B] all documentation regarding the admission,
    
evaluation, treatment and discharge from the treating licensed clinical psychologist or psychiatrist of the officer;
        © a psychological fitness for duty evaluation of
    
the person completed after the time of discharge; and
        (D) written confirmation in the form prescribed by
    
the Director from the treating licensed clinical psychologist or psychiatrist that the provisions set forth in paragraph (1) of this subsection (c-5) have been met, the person successfully completed treatment, and their professional opinion regarding the person's ability to possess firearms.
    (3) Officers eligible for the expedited relief in paragraph (2) of this subsection (c-5) have the burden of proof on eligibility and must provide all information required. The Director may not consider granting expedited relief until the proof and information is received.

 

 

 

 and shall we not forget---------SUBJECT ONLY TO THE POLICE POWER-----



#12 mikew

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 03:14 PM

It would be beneficial, though, to recognize that many gun owners in this state fear getting the treatment they need because of the almost certain loss of rights.

 

In the past few years the anti-gun crowd lumped suicides in their statistics to bolster their arguments.  If they're serious about finding a solution to the now 60% to 70% of homicides involving a firearm actually being a suicide, then they need to acknowledge that people must have the freedom to seek the treatment they deserve.  Everyone, not just sworn officers.

+1



#13 borgranta

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 06:02 PM

The voluntary treatment provision needs to be removed from the law that anyone including chicago cops can seek voluntary treatment without fear.  It would have the added benefit of making more states substantially similar for the purpose of issuing non-resident FCCL licenses.


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#14 Gamma

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 06:49 PM

This law is also giving a backhanded slap at the psychological industry.
 
If someone is having mental issues and gets treatment, and are apparently OK, they are deemed not worthy of having the RKBA.   So what they are saying is that psychology/psychiatry is such a pseudoscience, that it can't possible help anyone, and nobody can benefit from it, and getting treatment is proof that one has not been healed.   In other words, psychology/psychiatry does not work.
 
I'm surprised the psychological industry doesn't object to the law.   But nope.  They are OK with being insulted.

It's worse than that. The simple act of receiving treatment from the psychological industry is worse than non-treatment, in fact it's so bad it's a 100% automatic disqualifier..
Illinois' FCCA is a prime example of the maxim that sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.

#15 BobPistol

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Posted 27 August 2017 - 12:07 PM

^^ 

 

Agreed.   And yet the Psychological industry doesn't object to this insulting label. 


The Second Amendment of the Constitution protects the rest.

#16 MrTriple

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 05:02 PM

Two things:

One, I suspect that we'll eventually see a case before the SCOTUS addressing the twin issues of gun registration and gun licensing, and I wouldn't be surprised if they rule these unconstitutional. I could easily see a NYC resident being the potential plaintiff in a case like this, and if they win, goodbye FOID.

Two, has anyone gotten a definitive clarification as to whether or not regular therapy counts as a "voluntary admission"? If that's all these officers want, I don't see why they'd get reported for an admission because it isn't one. Unless the chief is referring to people voluntarily checking themselves into inpatient rehab instead of outpatient rehab.
"The point of [so-called "assault weapon" bans]...is not to ban firearms that are dangerous, it's to ban firearms that gun owners want to own because the people making the laws don't like gun owners. If we want to buy non-semiauto AR-style rifles, they'll ban those too, and for the same reason."

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#17 Glock23

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 05:25 PM

Therapy sessions are out-patient treatment, not an admission. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

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#18 MrTriple

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 05:29 PM

Therapy sessions are out-patient treatment, not an admission.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk


That's what I figured, so the chief must be referring to inpatient treatment?
"The point of [so-called "assault weapon" bans]...is not to ban firearms that are dangerous, it's to ban firearms that gun owners want to own because the people making the laws don't like gun owners. If we want to buy non-semiauto AR-style rifles, they'll ban those too, and for the same reason."

-Hapless

#19 brianj - now in Kansas

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 01:47 PM

The wife and I ended out going to see a counselor a couple of years ago for grief counseling.  I was terrified at that point that the counselor we ended out seeing was going to (mis)diagnose me with depression and end out getting my FOID and CCL yanked.

 

Fortunately, that didn't happen, but I was nervous for six months or so.

 

Bri


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#20 Ranger

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 12:19 PM

FWIW:  Physicians have a similar requirement that has a similar effect.  They have to disclose if they are on anti-depressants or any other similar medications to licensing / credentialing boards, etc.  The net result is that they don't get help they need or turn to something that doesn't get disclosed (i.e. alcohol or something else).  All these type of laws sound good but have a bad effect.



#21 Tango7

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 07:41 PM

I know of veterans dealing with PTSD who have avoided seeking counseling for fear of losing their RKBA.

1- Emotionally disturbed "loner" with violent tendencies acts out with a firearm.

2- Leftists (who just coincidentally want to ban all guns "by any means necessary") cite "nutcase gun owners" in their anti-gun screeds.

3- Do-gooders and those ignorant about, apathetic to or anti-guns agree.

4- Politicians see "support" (or are part of #2 above) and make the laws "betterer" and "strongerer" to further limit or remove RKBA by those with mental issues who have not been adjudicated mentally defective.

5- Someone who owns a gun develops mental issues (often in service to our country), but avoids seeking counseling when the issue is more easily dealt with due to the stigma, and doesn't discuss it for fear of being reported.

6- Emotional and psychological issues get worse due to isolation.

7- go to step 1.
You will not 'rise to the occasion', you will default to your level of training - plan accordingly.

Despite their rallying around us at election time, honoring only 8 hours of Illinois' 40+ hour law enforcement class towards a 16 hour requirement shows the contempt that our elected officials hold us in.




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