Jump to content


Photo

Wilson v. Cook County (Semi-Auto Gun Ban)


  • Please log in to reply
775 replies to this topic

#151 Tvandermyde

    Member

  • Members
  • 6,809 posts
  • Joined: 29-March 09

Posted 06 May 2011 - 07:04 AM

There has been a petiton filed asking the court to take up the case. Cert is an abbreveation of a latin term certcuri or something like that.
While a 9 mm or .40 caliber bullet may or may not expand, it is an undeniable fact that a .45 caliber bullet will never shrink.
 
my posts are moderated due to some butthurt on the part of IC people not liking my comments at times

#152 defaultdotxbe

    Member

  • Members
  • 5,314 posts
  • Joined: 17-February 11

Posted 06 May 2011 - 07:14 AM

certiorari (i googled it)
http://en.wikipedia....i#United_States

seems like its sortof like an appeal?

"The cheek of every American must tingle with shame as he reads the silly,
flat, and dishwatery utterances of the man who has to be pointed out to
intelligent foreigners as the President of the United States."
-Chicago Times review of Lincoln's Gettysburg Address.


#153 ming

    Member

  • Supporting Members Team
  • 2,166 posts
  • Joined: 22-July 09

Posted 06 May 2011 - 07:32 AM

certiorari (i googled it)
http://en.wikipedia....i#United_States

seems like its sortof like an appeal?

Being granted certiorari means the court has decided to hear the case.

NRA Life Member
NRA Certified Pistol and PPITH Instructor
NRA Range Safety Officer
ISRA Life Member
Registered Illinois Concealed Carry Firearms Instructor


#154 Talonap

    Member

  • Members
  • 3,488 posts
  • Joined: 12-July 08

Posted 06 May 2011 - 09:42 AM

Petiton for cert filed


What does this even really mean?


Petition for Writ of Certiorari. (informally called "Cert Petition.") A document which a losing party files with the Supreme Court asking the Supreme Court to review the decision of a lower court. It includes a list of the parties, a statement of the facts of the case, the legal questions presented for review, and arguments as to why the Court should grant the writ.

I had to look it up myself once. :headbang1:

#155 nocaster

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 327 posts
  • Joined: 11-February 11

Posted 06 May 2011 - 06:37 PM

I am confused. If the last decision/order in this case was entered by the 1st District Appellate Court, wouldn't the next step be the Illinois Supreme Court rather than the U.S. Supreme Court?

#156 Druid

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,222 posts
  • Joined: 08-March 05

Posted 10 May 2011 - 01:34 PM

I am confused. If the last decision/order in this case was entered by the 1st District Appellate Court, wouldn't the next step be the Illinois Supreme Court rather than the U.S. Supreme Court?


Yes, the next step is the Illinois Supreme Court. They waited 11 months on deciding what to do the last time this was appealed to their Court because they were waiting on the McDonald decision. They sent the case back down to the Appellate Court at that time, for that court to re-do based on McDonald. Not sure what they are waiting for this time. They are probably just busy.

#157 JR1987

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 810 posts
  • Joined: 11-April 11

Posted 10 May 2011 - 01:43 PM

I really think this needs to be overturned, it goes too far.

This is the same law as the Blair Holt Assault Weapons Ban AKA AWB right?

#158 Druid

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,222 posts
  • Joined: 08-March 05

Posted 10 May 2011 - 01:52 PM

I really think this needs to be overturned, it goes too far.

This is the same law as the Blair Holt Assault Weapons Ban AKA AWB right?


Yep.

#159 JR1987

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 810 posts
  • Joined: 11-April 11

Posted 10 May 2011 - 01:59 PM

thank you, when I read the title it said "Semi-auto gun ban". In a sense that is what it is, but you never know with Cook.

They may just decide to make firearms illegal... Wacko's.

It had me worried that the banned ALL semi auto weapons.

#160 GarandFan

    Member

  • Members
  • 11,772 posts
  • Joined: 06-February 07

Posted 10 May 2011 - 02:28 PM

It had me worried that the banned ALL semi auto weapons.


"Semi-auto ban" in a sense? It is precisely that, as it bans a bunch of semiauto guns.

It should worry you. If they think they can ban some of them, they think they can ban all of them. Your Garand is every bit as lethal as an AK47 ... in fact, more so. It is every bit as possible to use it unlawfully as to use an AK unlawfully. The people who brought you the ban on semiauto AK47s would be very happy indeed to bring you a ban on your M1 Garand.

And that is a fact.

Three cheers to Wilson et al, for taking on this egregious and spiteful infringement upon the freedoms of law-abiding Cook county citizens.
"It takes all the running you can do just to keep in the same place."
Lewis Carroll, 1872

#161 defaultdotxbe

    Member

  • Members
  • 5,314 posts
  • Joined: 17-February 11

Posted 10 May 2011 - 02:48 PM

It had me worried that the banned ALL semi auto weapons.


"Semi-auto ban" in a sense? It is precisely that, as it bans a bunch of semiauto guns.

It should worry you. If they think they can ban some of them, they think they can ban all of them. Your Garand is every bit as lethal as an AK47 ... in fact, more so. It is every bit as possible to use it unlawfully as to use an AK unlawfully. The people who brought you the ban on semiauto AK47s would be very happy indeed to bring you a ban on your M1 Garand.

And that is a fact.

Three cheers to Wilson et al, for taking on this egregious and spiteful infringement upon the freedoms of law-abiding Cook county citizens.

the cook county ban is so loosely worded its not even much of a stretch to say it already bans garands, youd only have to argue that it "has the capacity to accept" a larger clip

there was someone else here who tried to register an SKS in chicago, it met every requirement for a legal rifle, but they wouldnt let him register it, effectively making it an illegal (unregistered) firearm

"The cheek of every American must tingle with shame as he reads the silly,
flat, and dishwatery utterances of the man who has to be pointed out to
intelligent foreigners as the President of the United States."
-Chicago Times review of Lincoln's Gettysburg Address.


#162 JR1987

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 810 posts
  • Joined: 11-April 11

Posted 10 May 2011 - 03:31 PM

It had me worried that the banned ALL semi auto weapons.


"Semi-auto ban" in a sense? It is precisely that, as it bans a bunch of semiauto guns.

It should worry you. If they think they can ban some of them, they think they can ban all of them. Your Garand is every bit as lethal as an AK47 ... in fact, more so. It is every bit as possible to use it unlawfully as to use an AK unlawfully. The people who brought you the ban on semiauto AK47s would be very happy indeed to bring you a ban on your M1 Garand.

And that is a fact.

Three cheers to Wilson et al, for taking on this egregious and spiteful infringement upon the freedoms of law-abiding Cook county citizens.

the cook county ban is so loosely worded its not even much of a stretch to say it already bans garands, youd only have to argue that it "has the capacity to accept" a larger clip

there was someone else here who tried to register an SKS in chicago, it met every requirement for a legal rifle, but they wouldnt let him register it, effectively making it an illegal (unregistered) firearm


Why the Garand is unquestionably legal when compared to this law:

It cannot accept a higher capacity magazine. It is limited to 8 rounds. Unless some serious modification is done, it is an 8 round rifle at best. \

I also do not have to register firearms in my municipality.

#163 JR1987

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 810 posts
  • Joined: 11-April 11

Posted 10 May 2011 - 03:36 PM

In reference to the law:

The Garand may only take 8.


Large capacity magazine means any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than ten rounds, but shall not be construed to include the following:
(1) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than ten rounds.
(2) A 22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device.
(3) A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action firearm.


The general definitions:

Assault weapon means:
(1) A semiautomatic rifle that has the capacity to accept a large capacity magazine detachable or otherwise and one or more of the following:
(A) Only a pistol grip without a stock attached;
(:thumbsup: Any feature capable of functioning as a protruding grip that can be held by the non-trigger hand;
© A folding, telescoping or thumbhole stock;
(D) A shroud attached to the barrel, or that partially or completely encircles the barrel, allowing the bearer to hold the firearm with the non-trigger hand without being burned, but excluding a slide that encloses the barrel; or
(E) A muzzle brake or muzzle compensator;


While the Garand is semi automatic it can only accept an 8 our under clip. Since it cannot accept more, the law does not apply.

#164 defaultdotxbe

    Member

  • Members
  • 5,314 posts
  • Joined: 17-February 11

Posted 10 May 2011 - 03:41 PM

Why the Garand is unquestionably legal when compared to this law:

It cannot accept a higher capacity magazine. It is limited to 8 rounds. Unless some serious modification is done, it is an 8 round rifle at best. \

I also do not have to register firearms in my municipality.

thats what im talking about, someone could argue that any firearm could be modified, and this "has the capacity to accept" a large magazine

the law is worded very loosely to pretty much allow them to ban any gun at will

"The cheek of every American must tingle with shame as he reads the silly,
flat, and dishwatery utterances of the man who has to be pointed out to
intelligent foreigners as the President of the United States."
-Chicago Times review of Lincoln's Gettysburg Address.


#165 mstrat

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,395 posts
  • Joined: 27-September 10

Posted 10 May 2011 - 03:42 PM

For what it's worth: Here's the Chicago AWB case in question: http://illinoiscarry...showtopic=24527
ProtectIllinois.org: Share this link to teach others about RTC in IL

#166 JR1987

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 810 posts
  • Joined: 11-April 11

Posted 10 May 2011 - 03:44 PM

Why the Garand is unquestionably legal when compared to this law:

It cannot accept a higher capacity magazine. It is limited to 8 rounds. Unless some serious modification is done, it is an 8 round rifle at best. \

I also do not have to register firearms in my municipality.

thats what im talking about, someone could argue that any firearm could be modified, and this "has the capacity to accept" a large magazine

the law is worded very loosely to pretty much allow them to ban any gun at will


Modifications are illegal, I could also argue my Garand is permanently set up for 8 rounds. As it is. I would need a new receiver to accept a magazine.

#167 defaultdotxbe

    Member

  • Members
  • 5,314 posts
  • Joined: 17-February 11

Posted 10 May 2011 - 03:51 PM

Modifications are illegal, I could also argue my Garand is permanently set up for 8 rounds. As it is. I would need a new receiver to accept a magazine.

well as i said, check out FF's case http://illinoiscarry...showtopic=24527 (thanks mstrat for the link)

SKS permanently modified with a fixed magazine, deemed unregisterable


my point is that the law is worded loosely so a LEO, SA or anyone could argue that nearly any semi automatic firearm is illegal

"The cheek of every American must tingle with shame as he reads the silly,
flat, and dishwatery utterances of the man who has to be pointed out to
intelligent foreigners as the President of the United States."
-Chicago Times review of Lincoln's Gettysburg Address.


#168 JR1987

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 810 posts
  • Joined: 11-April 11

Posted 10 May 2011 - 03:54 PM

Very true, but I think the SKS is an "evil" military rifle. Which is really what they are after. But I agree with you

#169 defaultdotxbe

    Member

  • Members
  • 5,314 posts
  • Joined: 17-February 11

Posted 10 May 2011 - 04:02 PM

Very true, but I think the SKS is an "evil" military rifle. Which is really what they are after. But I agree with you

so that makes the M1 a "good" military rifle? lol

i guess as long as it isnt painted black :thumbsup:

"The cheek of every American must tingle with shame as he reads the silly,
flat, and dishwatery utterances of the man who has to be pointed out to
intelligent foreigners as the President of the United States."
-Chicago Times review of Lincoln's Gettysburg Address.


#170 JR1987

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 810 posts
  • Joined: 11-April 11

Posted 10 May 2011 - 04:04 PM

Hahahaha! It's true.

Was the mag capacity under 10?

#171 JR1987

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 810 posts
  • Joined: 11-April 11

Posted 10 May 2011 - 04:10 PM

I think the real big difference is that the SKS could easily be re modified to take a larger magazine. The M1 cannot.

#172 JR1987

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 810 posts
  • Joined: 11-April 11

Posted 10 May 2011 - 04:34 PM

Plenty of posts, but is there anything we could do to help forward this case? Is the ISRA on this?

#173 GarandFan

    Member

  • Members
  • 11,772 posts
  • Joined: 06-February 07

Posted 10 May 2011 - 05:53 PM

In reference to the law:

The Garand may only take 8.


Large capacity magazine means any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than ten rounds, but shall not be construed to include the following:
(1) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than ten rounds.
(2) A 22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device.
(3) A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action firearm.


The general definitions:

Assault weapon means:
(1) A semiautomatic rifle that has the capacity to accept a large capacity magazine detachable or otherwise and one or more of the following:
(A) Only a pistol grip without a stock attached;
(:thumbsup: Any feature capable of functioning as a protruding grip that can be held by the non-trigger hand;
© A folding, telescoping or thumbhole stock;
(D) A shroud attached to the barrel, or that partially or completely encircles the barrel, allowing the bearer to hold the firearm with the non-trigger hand without being burned, but excluding a slide that encloses the barrel; or
(E) A muzzle brake or muzzle compensator;


While the Garand is semi automatic it can only accept an 8 our under clip. Since it cannot accept more, the law does not apply.


That holds true for SKS with fixed box mags ... until they argue that they can be modified to accept detachable mags holding more than 10. And that is precisely what was argued during a recent hearing regarding the registerability of SKS. I'm just playing with you ... yes Garands are currently legal until someone in power wants to ban them.
"It takes all the running you can do just to keep in the same place."
Lewis Carroll, 1872

#174 GarandFan

    Member

  • Members
  • 11,772 posts
  • Joined: 06-February 07

Posted 10 May 2011 - 05:54 PM

I think the real big difference is that the SKS could easily be re modified to take a larger magazine. The M1 cannot.


The heck it can't. It's a machine ... it can be modified in almost any way imaginable.
"It takes all the running you can do just to keep in the same place."
Lewis Carroll, 1872

#175 JR1987

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 810 posts
  • Joined: 11-April 11

Posted 10 May 2011 - 08:07 PM

[quote name='GarandFan' date='10 May 2011 - 05:53 PM' timestamp='1305071588' post='270693']
[quote name='JR1987' date='10 May 2011 - 04:36 PM' timestamp='1305063412' post='270655']
In reference to the law:

The Garand may only take 8.


[quote]Large capacity magazine means any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than ten rounds, but shall not be construed to include the following:
(1) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than ten rounds.
(2) A 22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device.
(3) A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action firearm.[/quote]

The general definitions:

[quote]Assault weapon means:
(1) A semiautomatic rifle that has the capacity to accept a large capacity magazine detachable or otherwise and one or more of the following:
(A) Only a pistol grip without a stock attached;
(B) Any feature capable of functioning as a protruding grip that can be held by the non-trigger hand;
© A folding, telescoping or thumbhole stock;
(D) A shroud attached to the barrel, or that partially or completely encircles the barrel, allowing the bearer to hold the firearm with the non-trigger hand without being burned, but excluding a slide that encloses the barrel; or
(E) A muzzle brake or muzzle compensator;
[/quote]

While the Garand is semi automatic it can only accept an 8 our under clip. Since it cannot accept more, the law does not apply.
[/quote]

That holds true for SKS with fixed box mags ... until they argue that they can be modified to accept detachable mags holding more than 10. And that is precisely what was argued during a recent hearing regarding the registerability of SKS. I'm just playing with you ... yes Garands are currently legal until someone in power wants to ban them.
[/quote]

And that is the difference. The M1 Garand has a true internal fixed magazine not capable of holding more than 10 rounds.

I can see an M1A being illegal though, since it can readily, without any modification, accept 20 rds.

#176 Sigma

    Member

  • Members
  • 3,012 posts
  • Joined: 13-August 09

Posted 11 May 2011 - 01:40 PM

This is why we all need to support ISRA because this ordinance makes less sense than any other gun hating ordinance.
Exodus 22:2-3
If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed.

Gun control is not about guns, it's about control. Once they have all the guns, they'll also have complete control.-Abolt

Guns kill people just like beds get girls pregnant.

#177 JR1987

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 810 posts
  • Joined: 11-April 11

Posted 11 May 2011 - 02:11 PM

Agreed. I wrote the ISRA asking where this is right now, where we stand. I am trying to get some of my friends to join, one may, the others probably not.

#178 Don Moran

  • Members
  • 14 posts
  • Joined: 16-December 10

Posted 16 May 2011 - 12:15 PM

This case has been financially funded through the ISRA since before it was first filed. We will know before the end of the month if the Illinois Supreme Court will hear it.

For those of you questioning whether a Garand is banned? In order to know, you need to know the definition of a shroud... You may think you know, but in this ordinance it is so poorly defined, that the upper handguard of the Garand, my very well be perceived as a shroud, thus banning this firearm. So, no one knows for sure, least of all your average LEO who would be the person making the first determination.

That's one of the reason's the ordinance is vulnerable in the courts, its arbitrary and capricious.


Don Moran
President
Illinois State Rifle Assn.

#179 JR1987

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 810 posts
  • Joined: 11-April 11

Posted 16 May 2011 - 01:02 PM

Ahh but the Garand, as it is manufactured does not have the ability to accept large capacity mags.

Regardless, my town is home rule, and no capacity bans or assault weapons bans exist.

However I want to see this nonsense overturned.

#180 Druid

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,222 posts
  • Joined: 08-March 05

Posted 25 May 2011 - 03:37 PM

FYI, this morning SCOIL accepted the case!!! :thumbsup:




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users