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Worried my FOID might get denied, can I mail clarifications?


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#1 MysteryMoogle

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 09:43 PM

Hi all,

I'm a Canadian living in Illinois and also own firearms. I moved from Florida recently and brought my firearms with me.

The foid card application process specifically asks to make sure that individuals are not non immigrant aliens on Visas. As a Canadian and not a green card holder, I'm a non immigrant alien but also not on a Visa... Essentially I fall into this small realm of individuals not on Visas who are also not permanent residents or citizens. This literally only happens for Canadians living in the USA on a full time basis...

I'm afraid the ISP might deny my FOID card. Should I mail clarifications before they deny me? I tried calling and the person who answered could not understand the particularity of my situation - neither could her supervisor. Everytime I buy a gun, it takes the store owner 15 minutes to even agree to run my background check and then the ATF calls and a supervisor at the ATF has to clarify to their own employees that I can purchase and own guns... I bought all my guns at an FFL in Florida.

Does anyone have any recommendations? To dispose of my firearms after being denied a FOID card would make me have to transfer them to an FFL, a police station or a friend. If I transfer to a police or FFL and lose my job while I'm waiting for the appeal, I may never get my firearms back since I would have to move back to Canada and out of the state.. if I transfer to a friend, I make them liable for the transfer and I only know 1 person with a FOID in the state... And I barely know them...

Any suggestions??

Thanks.

Edit: and yes, I am currently in lawfu possession of my firearms. Illinois law allows newcomers to the state 60 days to get their FOID. I can't buy ammo or buy a new gun, but I can possess them for 60 days without a FOID unless there is another reason for not being allowed to have firearms which there isn't (I'm not a criminal, or I would be deported...).

Edited by MysteryMoogle, 19 March 2018 - 09:56 PM.


#2 biggun 1

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 10:40 PM

do you posess a valid illinois drivers license?



#3 MysteryMoogle

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 10:42 PM

Yeah. Got it two weeks ago. So I only have 60 days to get my FOID or get rid of my guns.

Edited by MysteryMoogle, 19 March 2018 - 10:42 PM.


#4 biggun 1

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 10:50 PM

what county are you living in?



#5 MysteryMoogle

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 10:54 PM

Cook.

#6 Euler

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 11:07 PM

Cook.


D00M.

#7 biggun 1

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 11:10 PM

i was afraid you might say cook.whatever you do,do not let the cook county sheriff,s police hold your guns.maybe you can send them to a family member outside of illinois.



#8 MysteryMoogle

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 11:16 PM

Are you serious.... Is cook that bad? Regardless, the law does not allow me to turn it over to Cook county. The law explicitly states my local PD which would be my city police DP. The police is my last option... But I'm wondering if writing a letter to the ISP would help or if it would give them a reason to "deny" "just in case".

Also, do I have to appeal or can I sue right away? Its a fundamental mispapplication of the law if my FOID is denied - not a misinterpretation of police records due to a vague interpretation of "clear and present danger".

#9 Euler

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 11:41 PM

IANAL, but you can't sue unless you have grounds. Neither your application nor an appeal has been denied yet. Also, lawsuits are not fun for anyone. Do one only if you have to.

The basic question is still: Can you provide supplemental information before the application is processed, and would it do any good?

I myself do not know. The no-work-visa thing could get messy, I'd think.

#10 MysteryMoogle

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Posted 20 March 2018 - 02:07 AM

Right... Its not a work visa. Its just work. I'm Canadian. Laws are special. Frustrating but even Canadians call it a work visa colloquially but the federal government (from which the law is copy pasted) has a specific term for it and permits me to own a gun.

I can provide info. But I fear that any additional info will be used as a reason to deny me initially to buy them more time to investigate. :( And by more time, I mean a purgatory amount of time.

#11 Mick G

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Posted 20 March 2018 - 02:19 AM

You are probably best off sending a PM to Molly.

If anybody would know, its her.



#12 MysteryMoogle

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Posted 20 March 2018 - 03:13 AM

Hmm ok. Thanks folks

#13 Mick G

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Posted 20 March 2018 - 03:20 AM

Hmm ok. Thanks folks

 

Seriously this is her baby. She knows more about this stuff then anybody. 

With the election tomorrow she is probably pretty busy or she might have just replied. 

A PM to her is really your best bet and yes Cook County is that BAD.



#14 MysteryMoogle

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Posted 20 March 2018 - 05:22 AM

Yeah I'll send her a PM with this link after tomorrow. I'm cognizant that the election has everybody in the political universe a bit busy :P

#15 mkhalil61

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Posted 20 March 2018 - 06:41 AM

i was afraid you might say cook.whatever you do,do not let the cook county sheriff,s police hold your guns.maybe you can send them to a family member outside of illinois.

 

+100000



#16 MysteryMoogle

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Posted 20 March 2018 - 07:12 AM

^ speaking of the cook county Sheriff's office. So is the Blair Holt assault weapons ban still in place? Many gun shops don't know. My local PD didn't know.

Edited by MysteryMoogle, 20 March 2018 - 07:14 AM.


#17 InterestedBystander

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Posted 20 March 2018 - 07:58 AM

^ speaking of the cook county Sheriff's office. So is the Blair Holt assault weapons ban still in place? Many gun shops don't know. My local PD didn't know.

It is still on the books and some Cook residents are having SBR forms denied by the ATF because of it.
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#18 Molly B.

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Posted 20 March 2018 - 10:03 AM

Yeah. Got it two weeks ago. So I only have 60 days to get my FOID or get rid of my guns.

 

 

You may be okay.  You are an Illinois resident with an Illinois driver's license and you are not a "non immigrant aliens on Visas".  I don't know of a way to mail info or notifications ahead of time.  If you are denied, consider storing your firearms with an FFL dealer close to you.

 

If you live with someone who has a FOID card, you can store your firearms and ammunition in a locked room, closet, safe - making sure you do not have access to the key or combination.  You might also consider transferring them to a friend to store for you.


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#19 MysteryMoogle

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Posted 20 March 2018 - 10:39 AM

Hmm. Okay. I guess I will wait. I just really don't want to have to go thru a 10+ months ordeal to appeal this thing. Not to mention an additional 4 months to get a CCL despite already having a non resident CCL that covers nearly all the surrounding states. Its a shake the online process gives 0 way to add additional information to an application.

About transferring to a friend, the law says I must not posses my guns for 48 hours after I get a denial. Yet handguns need a 72 hour waiting period. Sooooo how does that work lmao.

#20 MysteryMoogle

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Posted 20 March 2018 - 10:42 AM

The real thing that worries me is that unless you know Canadians do not need visas, then you wouldn't know the particularities of the law. Especially given the canadian Federal police has false detailed explanations of how to own firearms in the USA. Only good ATF supervisors know how to read their own FAQ online and relevant case law.

#21 Mick G

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Posted 20 March 2018 - 10:45 AM

Hmm. Okay. I guess I will wait. I just really don't want to have to go thru a 10+ months ordeal to appeal this thing. Not to mention an additional 4 months to get a CCL despite already having a non resident CCL that covers nearly all the surrounding states. Its a shake the online process gives 0 way to add additional information to an application.

About transferring to a friend, the law says I must not posses my guns for 48 hours after I get a denial. Yet handguns need a 72 hour waiting period. Sooooo how does that work lmao.

 

Welcome to Illinois, the land of stupid gun laws.



#22 MysteryMoogle

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Posted 20 March 2018 - 11:01 AM

Lmao.

#23 geomick

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Posted 20 March 2018 - 10:05 PM

Still time to move to a free state



#24 MysteryMoogle

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Posted 21 March 2018 - 06:05 AM

I can't move without a specific job offer in hand. I follow immigration laws lol. Plus I like my job.

Edited by MysteryMoogle, 21 March 2018 - 06:06 AM.


#25 Xwing

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Posted 22 March 2018 - 07:23 AM

Good luck.  Illinois does have some stupid gun laws, and Cook County has a well-deserved reputation as doing everything they can to deny 2nd amendment rights.  Unfortunately they often use any excuse to mess with legal firearm holders to score political points.  But overall, Illinois gun laws are still not nearly as bad as Canada's laws, so maybe it's not as bad as you think. :)

 

Molly's suggestion of "store with a FFL" may be a viable option.  But the best option is if you have a friend or family member who can store your firearms temporarily if you are denied FOID while you go through the appeal.  Illinois State Police, who process the FOID, do try to be fair and they follow the law.  So hopefully this worry is for nothing.  Let us know what happens!


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#26 MysteryMoogle

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Posted 29 March 2018 - 07:15 AM

I wanted to respond to your last comment with a bit of a political opinion

I actually prefer Canada's laws to Illinois - because at least you know you are being treated the same as fellow citizens nationwide. Sure there's no CCL and magazine laws are annoying, but it does reduce gun violence (facts are facts). Illinois has a process that can make you an overnight felon simply for "moving" or being in the wrong city with the wrong firearm.

Edited by MysteryMoogle, 29 March 2018 - 07:20 AM.


#27 Mick G

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Posted 29 March 2018 - 07:43 AM

I wanted to respond to your last comment with a bit of a political opinion

I actually prefer Canada's laws to Illinois - because at least you know you are being treated the same as fellow citizens nationwide. Sure there's no CCL and magazine laws are annoying, but it does reduce gun violence (facts are facts). Illinois has a process that can make you an overnight felon simply for "moving" or being in the wrong city with the wrong firearm.

 

True but try this one on for size. Some Illinois license plates are made in Canada. - fact 



#28 InterestedBystander

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Posted 29 March 2018 - 07:44 AM

. Sure there's no CCL and magazine laws are annoying, but it does reduce gun violence (facts are facts).


Eh?
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#29 Euler

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Posted 29 March 2018 - 12:52 PM

... Sure there's no CCL and magazine laws are annoying, but it does reduce gun violence (facts are facts). ...


Some countries with stronger gun restrictions have lower violent crime rates, some don't. A better correlation is that countries with lower violent crime rates have better social systems.

Violent criminals aren't (for the most part) born violent (nature). They're made violent by the events and circumstances in their lives (nurture). At some point (usually long before they commit a violent crime), they become "unfixable" (unless you're willing to endorse truly extreme "re-education" which so far only exists in fiction).

Hmm, and you've derailed your own thread.

#30 MysteryMoogle

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 02:49 PM

Lol to get this back on topic.

30 days, 0 email/contact from ISP. Website still says under review. So much for 30 days.




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