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Ask ISP Email? I got questions...


Craigcelia

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Anyone got that ISP Firearm Services Bureau email address again? I've seen it posted before but couldn't find it. I tried "askisp@isp.state.IL.us" only to have it bounce back.

 

Along with that request, here is what I am asking them if anyone has any insight/thoughts:

 

 

1. What happens if a conceal carry license holder expires. Is there a time frame in how long they have to submit their renewal application or would they have to take the entire 16/8 hour course again?

 

 

2. For the Snowbirds, if Illinois residents stay in Florida for the winter and have their US Mail forwarded, if they submit their 3 hour renewal application, will the ISP allow them to receive their license via forwarding mail? If not, how else can these people obtain their renewed licenses?

 

 

Thank you.

 

 

 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

 

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Anyone got that ISP Firearm Services Bureau email address again? I've seen it posted before but couldn't find it. I tried "askisp@isp.state.IL.us" only to have it bounce back. Along with that request, here is what I am asking them if anyone has any insight/thoughts: 1. What happens if a conceal carry license holder expires. Is there a time frame in how long they have to submit their renewal application or would they have to take the entire 16/8 hour course again? 2. For the Snowbirds, if Illinois residents stay in Florida for the winter and have their US Mail forwarded, if they submit their 3 hour renewal application, will the ISP allow them to receive their license via forwarding mail? If not, how else can these people obtain their renewed licenses? Thank you. Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

1. If any holders expires, they most like will be buried or cremated. ;)

Several other threads indicate the original training does not expire. So, I do not think that they would have to repeat the 16 hours. Just as ex-military, LE, etc. credits do not expire.

 

2. I do not remember if the envelop containing the CCL is marked, "Do not Forward". Perhaps, someone who has recently received a license can remember what is on the envelop.

If it is not so marked, then there should be no problem. With the 60 day time frame for processing this may not be a problem anyway. That depends on the length of stay down south.

A snowbird could also do training now and not the application until January or February. ISP does not know the location of the computer used for submission. The renewing person could be home before the renewal has been processed, and receive it at their Illinois .

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Anyone got that ISP Firearm Services Bureau email address again? I've seen it posted before but couldn't find it. I tried "askisp@isp.state.IL.us" only to have it bounce back. Along with that request, here is what I am asking them if anyone has any insight/thoughts: 1. What happens if a conceal carry license holder expires. Is there a time frame in how long they have to submit their renewal application or would they have to take the entire 16/8 hour course again? 2. For the Snowbirds, if Illinois residents stay in Florida for the winter and have their US Mail forwarded, if they submit their 3 hour renewal application, will the ISP allow them to receive their license via forwarding mail? If not, how else can these people obtain their renewed licenses? Thank you. Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

1. If any holders expires, they most like will be buried or cremated. ;)

 

 

I guess I walked right into that one... :getlost:

 

I'm not sure, if their original license expires on 3/1/19...can someone submit their renewal application on 6/1/19 after their license expired, and still be ok... un-chartered territory I guess.

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I would expect that once the CC license has expired, it's expired. You'd not be renewing it. You'd be reapplying.

 

One thing which I know is contained in the law is that instructors are supposed to keep student records for 5 years. That implies to me that an instruction certificate can only be used for 5 years. If the ISP FSB truly accepted the over-5-year-old class, that would mean no one would ever have to take a 3-hour renewal class. Just wait for the license to expire, then reapply with the class you took over 5 years ago. Is certificate expiration explicitly defined in the law? I don't think so, and I'm too lazy to look right now, but why cause your own mess if you can avoid it?

 

The FOID has a 60-day grace period that kicks in next year, so you can renew up to 2 months after expiration (but don't wait that long, because it's not like you're going to get the new FOID the next day). The CCL does not have a grace period.

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I would expect that once the CC license has expired, it's expired. You'd not be renewing it. You'd be reapplying.One thing which I know is contained in the law is that instructors are supposed to keep student records for 5 years. That implies to me that an instruction certificate can only be used for 5 years. If the ISP FSB truly accepted the over-5-year-old class, that would mean no one would ever have to take a 3-hour renewal class. Just wait for the license to expire, then reapply with the class you took over 5 years ago. Is certificate expiration explicitly defined in the law? I don't think so, and I'm too lazy to look right now, but why cause your own mess if you can avoid it?The FOID has a 60-day grace period that kicks in next year, so you can renew up to 2 months after expiration (but don't wait that long, because it's not like you're going to get the new FOID the next day). The CCL does not have a grace period.

If you have applied for renewal and CCL expires, your CCL is still valid. Renewals and expirations are not explicitly called out in much detail in the FCCA legislation or JCAR rules that I could find.

 

Some could have this out of their control e.g. something hand, limb or medical related comes along and you are in surgeries/casts/treatment prohibiting ability to shoot for the 60 to 120 day time period you have to take class and submit certificate. Interested to see the ISP response.

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I'll post the ISP response if I get one back.

 

Here is the issue at hand...

 

A friend who got his CCL right when classes became available - expires I think in February/March (still trying to confirm). He is a snowbird - stays in Florida for the winter and Spring. He can take the 3 hour renewal, send in the renewal application but might run into an issue if ISP does not allow forwarding of mailed CCL (I recall seeing a post long ago about them not allowing it). I get the fact he can apply the day before he expires and still be covered, then hope for the best he will be back in time but is hesitant in trying that method.

 

So, if he has his mail forwarded to Florida, and ISP sends it to his Illinois home which is forwarded, and he isn't back in time, then what.

 

I remember Molly mentioning they might have a solution for that but not sure what that might be, and how would this guy ask the ISP to send it to Florida if allowed. This guy has tried the traditional phone calls to ISP, which to no surprise goes no where.

 

We shall see.

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I would expect that once the CC license has expired, it's expired. You'd not be renewing it. You'd be reapplying.

 

One thing which I know is contained in the law is that instructors are supposed to keep student records for 5 years. That implies to me that an instruction certificate can only be used for 5 years. If the ISP FSB truly accepted the over-5-year-old class, that would mean no one would ever have to take a 3-hour renewal class. Just wait for the license to expire, then reapply with the class you took over 5 years ago. Is certificate expiration explicitly defined in the law? I don't think so, and I'm too lazy to look right now, but why cause your own mess if you can avoid it?

 

The FOID has a 60-day grace period that kicks in next year, so you can renew up to 2 months after expiration (but don't wait that long, because it's not like you're going to get the new FOID the next day). The CCL does not have a grace period.

 

The 5 year old certificate originally used for the first CCL would not qualify for renewing the CCL. The renewing carrier has to show proof of additional training by passing an approved 3 hour renewal course. All certificates are dated and the data from the original is probably on file with the ISP.

 

Nothing in the FCCA states that all original training has to be redone, if a CCL is past the date of expiration. The instructors records could be used to verify a suspicious certificate or irregularity. Requiring instructors to keep records indefinitely would be an undue burden.

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The 5 year old certificate originally used for the first CCL would not qualify for renewing the CCL....

It's not renewal. It's a new application at that point. Sure he had a license before it expired, but it expired.

 

What's the precedent on other types of licenses without a grace period? For example, if you let your driver's license expire, do you have to take the written test again?

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I could not find anything about retesting if one's driver's license has expired. I think there might be an additional fee, as a penalty.

http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/departments/drivers/drivers_license/drlicid.html#dlrenew

 

I think the required renewal training for CCL is somewhat similar to the continuing education requirements for certain licensed professionals in the state.

That first CCL, like the first professional license, would not show additional learning or refresher after the initial issuance.

A professional very late in seeking reestablishment of a license is not required to retake basic training and licensure testing.

They only have to show current recognized continuing education (and pay fees). The requirements may be different in professional disciplinary cases

 

 

It does appear that one could present a 6 year old training certificate to the ISP, meet all the other requirements, and receive a CCL

even though their training may not be as current as someone who just took the course.

This, of course, does not meet the concept that CCL holders should be aware of recent changes in changes in the law.

Could the ISP reject the application based on the lack of currency? Possibly, but then the applicant would have the right

to administrative and judicial review as noted in section 87 of the FCCL

 

The FCCA was passed in haste. It is flawed.

 

Back to the OP. It appears that the OP will need to contact the ISP for the official answer.

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I could not find anything about retesting if one's driver's license has expired. I think there might be an additional fee, as a penalty.

http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/departments/drivers/drivers_license/drlicid.html#dlrenew

 

I think the required renewal training for CCL is somewhat similar to the continuing education requirements for certain licensed professionals in the state.

That first CCL, like the first professional license, would not show additional learning or refresher after the initial issuance.

A professional very late in seeking reestablishment of a license is not required to retake basic training and licensure testing.

They only have to show current recognized continuing education (and pay fees). The requirements may be different in professional disciplinary cases

 

 

It does appear that one could present a 6 year old training certificate to the ISP, meet all the other requirements, and receive a CCL

even though their training may not be as current as someone who just took the course.

This, of course, does not meet the concept that CCL holders should be aware of recent changes in changes in the law.

Could the ISP reject the application based on the lack of currency? Possibly, but then the applicant would have the right

to administrative and judicial review as noted in section 87 of the FCCL

 

The FCCA was passed in haste. It is flawed.

 

Back to the OP. It appears that the OP will need to contact the ISP for the official answer.

 

Your response here makes a lot of sense with regard to other professions under the Illinois Department of Professional Regulation. I suppose my only issue is this program isn't ran by IDPR. Again, it makes the most sense though.

 

I agree, this was passed in haste, it is flawed. My guess is because Illinois was forced into this last minute and was on a timeline, they had to get it done. It's almost as if they came up with a beta system and put little after thought into the future. Any progress that was made in the last 5 years was only because of the diligent and dedicated efforts of Mike and Molly, on our behalf.

 

We shall see!

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Finally, an email response from the ISP:

 

If the CCL license expires the applicant will have to complete a new CCL application and submit a NEW 16/8 hour training certificate/exemption course verification certificate. An applicant may have a mailing address, however, the USPS does not forward licenses.

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Here is my update: There is no update. 6 days = crickets. Carry on.

 

 

I would say for the ISP under a week is a pretty good response time.

 

Years ago emailed the CPO desk and got a response over 3 months later! Back then, an officer was stationed at the "desk" supposedly 24 hrs/day too!!!

 

My local guy had just transferred and didn't have the new officer's cell number. It usually took days to get the supervisor in Joliet to return a call and/or for him to pass it on to the local officer.

Here is my update: There is no update. 6 days = crickets. Carry on.

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  • 2 months later...

I just got an E-mail today from the trooper who did my instructor audit. I had asked him whether someone who allowed their permit to expire would have to take the 8/16 hour class or just the renewal. He said, and I quote...."Yes, an expired CCL license is a 3 hour renewal."

 

This would make sense, if the source is credible.

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I thought this was confirmed by the wording on the renewal letter the ISP was sending out.

Oh, that I am not sure.
...The Department has 90 days to process applications with valid fingerprints and 120 days for applications submitted without valid fingerprints. Also be mindful that if you submit your renewal application prior to expiration, your card will remain in an ACTIVE status while processing your application. If you allow your card to expire, and you wish to apply for a new CCL, a 16-hour training certificate will be required....

 

http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=70552&do=findComment&comment=1184081

 

http://www.illinoiscarry.com/forum/uploads/monthly_11_2018/post-11442-0-28949400-1543541198.jpghttp://www.illinoiscarry.com/forum/uploads/monthly_11_2018/post-11442-0-39866100-1543541355.jpg

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...The Department has 90 days to process applications with valid fingerprints and 120 days for applications submitted without valid fingerprints. Also be mindful that if you submit your renewal application prior to expiration, your card will remain in an ACTIVE status while processing your application. If you allow your card to expire, and you wish to apply for a new CCL, a 16-hour training certificate will be required....

 

Sounds like we know the answer then.. Cool.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...

16hr is ridiculous if it expires... Since the original training does not expire, a student could wait 3yrs and apply then carry for another 5yrs. At that point, the last training you had was over 8yrs. I would say if the card is expired more than a year then that might be acceptable. Also, many of us never received a letter that we were going to expire. All that combined with not being able to contact them is unacceptable. There needs to be a lawsuit to start to address some of this stuff. You're supposed to be able to apply on the phone as well... how can one do that if you can never reach anyone!? Since this is de-facto online only application the "convenience fee," could be considered illegal because there is no other way to apply.

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