Mass media crapshow

[wig]

I just happened to be on the same channel after the Settle game to find 60 minutes featuring the oh so assaulty AR15 featurette. So did anyone else happen to notice that the rifle they are using cannot be owned by civilians? It's a full-on H&K 416 D.

 

Granted - the ballistics info doesn't change a whole lot - but considering this is a weapon that cannot be bought even with NFA stamps, it's kind of lame. They even had the balls to say the ar15 is only semi and not automatic - while showing a shoulder view of the person handling the rifle clearly displaying a 3 position selector with the very well known and iconic H&K DDDD auto in red.

 

Sorry if this is in the wrong forum - but it's a national show so I figured national politics.

[soundguy]

No shame at all in watching by far the best news program ever!

I'm sort of offended at you calling the piece a "crapshow".

 

 

This was a piece on 223/556 ballistics and wounds and the medical community and first responders adapting to save more lives for next time... . I thought Scott's opening was particularly accurate:

 

"The AR15 style rifle is the most popular rifle in America, there are well over 11 million. And they are rarely used in crime. Handguns kill far more people. But the AR15 is the choice of our worst mass murderers. AR15 ammunition travels up to 3 times the speed of sound, and tonight, we're going to slow that down so you can see why the AR15's high velocity ammo is the fear of every American emergency room."

 

It goes on to present some pretty good info. I like the idea of an active killer kit.

[lilguy]

Watched the same propaganda. The forth estate is aligned against us. They had a JB ad before it and a Michael Bloomberg vote Democrat PSA after. We have our work cut out for us. The lack of Republican adds is disheartening.

[2A4Cook]

Watched the same propaganda. The forth estate is aligned against us. They had a JB ad before it and a Michael Bloomberg vote Democrat PSA after. We have our work cut out for us. The lack of Republican adds is disheartening.

We don't have any billionaire sugar daddies

[lilguy]

The problem is the mothers of America are starting to get nervous about talk of bullet proof backpack and now add active shooter kits. The NFL will be fd if Moms decide their kids are not going to play football anymore. And second amendment right aside, we are gonna have an unwinable battle against the Moms if we can’t push back effectively against the issues that scare them. This is why Bloomberg

Is funding these nationwide antigun mom groups.

[soundguy]

The problem is the mothers of America are starting to get nervous about talk of bullet proof backpack and now add active shooter kits. The NFL will be fd if Moms decide their kids are not going to play football anymore. And second amendment right aside, we are gonna have an unwinable battle against the Moms if we can’t push back effectively against the issues that scare them. This is why Bloomberg

Is funding these nationwide antigun mom groups.

 

Dads who played football have already decided their kids aren't gonna suffer the same fate.

[2A4Cook]

I got more concussions boxing and playing baseball than in playing football. Ever take a line drive to the forehead from 90 feet? OUCH!

[soundguy]

I got more concussions boxing and playing baseball than in playing football. Ever take a line drive to the forehead from 90 feet? OUCH!

 

I think for most former players it's about the spinal compression, disks disintegrating and seriously limiting mobility as you age. Hip and joint injuries you just "play through". Concussion is only a small part. I loved playing as a kid...

[357]

Pre election propaganda.

[Euler]

No shame at all in watching by far the best news program ever!

I'm sort of offended at you calling the piece a "crapshow".

 

This was a piece on 223/556 ballistics and wounds and the medical community and first responders adapting to save more lives for next time... . I thought Scott's opening was particularly accurate:

 

 

The AR15 style rifle is the most popular rifle in America, there are well over 11 million. And they are rarely used in crime. Handguns kill far more people. But the AR15 is the choice of our worst mass murderers. AR15 ammunition travels up to 3 times the speed of sound, and tonight, we're going to slow that down so you can see why the AR15's high velocity ammo is the fear of every American emergency room.

It goes on to present some pretty good info. I like the idea of an active killer kit.

 

It was indeed about the difference in rifle vs handgun ballistics and critical first aid, but the thing about AR15s being the firearm of choice for mass murderers is still misleading. AR15s are the most popular choice of rifle for everybody. Mass murderers are a subset of everybody. It's kind of like saying oxygen is the respiratory gas of choice for mass murderers.

[TRJ]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ar-15-used-mass-shootings-weapon-of-choice-60-minutes/

 

Here's the whole thing.

 

Looking like coordinated with the big anti groups..."velocity ammunition"... remember reading about that last month?

The next attack angle will be against any ammunition that is fired above a specific velocity TBD ... this means Fudd guns are threatened too. I sense a miscalculated step...and a run on rifle ammunition.

[lockman]

60 minutes is just pointing out how bad the injuries are from the .223 are. Maybe a switch to less devastating rounds such as the 30-06 or .308? Or go to pistol rounds like the .44 magnum, .50 s&w or the 454 Casull? /purple

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Skolnick]

They even had the balls to say the ar15 is only semi and not automatic - while showing a shoulder view of the person handling the rifle clearly displaying a 3 position selector with the very well known and iconic H&K DDDD auto in red.

wig is making the assumption that the Ministry of Truth is about truth.

In February of 2008, at the start of the presidential primary season, the New York Times published a report that John McCain had an affair with lobbyist Vicki Iseman. In February 2009, months after the election, the NY Times settled a defamation lawsuit by publishing a "note to readers" stating that it "did not intend to conclude" that a lobbyist had an affair with Senator John McCain.

In 1980, Janet Cook wrote a Pulitzer Prize for "Jimmy's World". When it turned out there was no Jimmy, Cook was fired from the Washington Post for fabricating the report and the Pulitzer committee demanded the return of their award.

The NY Times ran a bogus story on Alar that is still believed; ABC was found liable for using selective information about the Food Lion supermarket chain; NBC staged a story about exploding fuel tanks on GM trucks; Newsweek faked the story of the flushing the Koran down a toilet; the Chicago Sun-Times inflated its newsstand sales by 25%, and Dan Rather ran with fake documents.

April Oliver and Jack Smith were fired, senior producer Pam Hill resigned, and Peter Arnett's contract was not renewed over the Operation Tailwind story that CNN and Time Magazine had to retract.

Jayson Blair (NY Times), Jack Kelly (USA Today), Stephen Glass (New Republic), Patricia Smith (Boston Globe), and Mike Barnicle (Boston Globe) were all were exposed to be fabricating or plagiarizing reports.

Reuters admitted to using film footage from the movie "Titanic" as Russian submersibles on the seabed of the North Pole.

ABC admitted to using footage of a tachometer in a parked car in a 2/22/10 story about Toyota's sudden acceleration problems.

On 1/25/13, MSNBC's Martin Bashir aired a video that was edited to show Neil Heslin being heckled by pro-gun lobbyists as he talked about his 6-year-old son being killed at Sandy Hook.

Reuters altered photos of Beirut bombings to make it look as if Israel created more damage to civilian areas than it actually did.

In a photo of Condoleezza Rice, USA Today altered her eyes to make her look demonic.

NBC edited a 911 tape to make it sound as if George Zimmerman was racially profiling Trayvon Martin, and Katie Couric added in an 8 second pause to make it seem as if a group of pro-gun people were stumped by her question on background checks when in fact, they answered so quickly they talked over each other.

And speaking of Katie Couric, CBS Photoshopped a publicity photo of her to make her look more attractive. According to Gil Schwartz, executive vice president of communications for CBS Corp, "The picture was retouched without the knowledge of Ms. Couric or CBS News management."

On 9/13/2018, President Trump alleged that Democrats had inflated the Hurricane Maria death toll "in order to make me look as bad as possible." The Associated Press accusing Trump of making claims "without evidence."

Before that exchange: University of Puerto Rico-Mayagüez professors calculated a death toll of 822, with a 95 percent confidence range that the total was somewhere between 605 and 1,039. The Center for Investigative Reporting calculated 985. The Washington Post claimed about 1,000. The New York Times calculated 1,052. Pennsylvania State University professors calculated 1,085. Latino USA calculated 1,194 excess deaths. George Washington University estimated the excess mortality from Hurricane Maria at 2,975 within a 95% confidence interval of 2,658-3,290 excess" deaths. The New England Journal of Medicine came up with a 95% confidence rate of 4,645.

On 2/26/2008, DURING THE DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY DEBATE, an exasperated Hillary Clinton derided the overt media bias for Barrack Obama with the following statement: And if anybody saw Saturday Night Live, you know, maybe we should ask Barack if he's comfortable and needs another pillow.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/showtracker/2007/05/post_1.html

TV just got a lot 'whiter,' says a canceled George Lopez |M AY 14, 2007 | 11:33 AM

George Lopez, the first Latino to lead a television series successfully, isn't laughing ... by Maria Elena Fernandez

How does a TV reporter named "Maria Elena Fernandez" neglect Desi Arnaz?! Or Duncan Renaldo (the Cisco Kid), Freddie Prinze, Erik Estrada, Jimmy Smits, Bill Dana, and Ricardo Montalban? What possible definition of "successful Latino" includes Lopez, who was born in LA, and excludes Montalban, who was born in Mexico?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jpESua0bwA

How about this live-action Weather Channel report on the intensity of Hurricane Florence from a couple of months ago? If you watch the video you'll see, not only the two guys strolling by, but that the wind is blowing from right to left -- he isn't even leaning into the wind.

[soundguy]

 

No shame at all in watching by far the best news program ever!

I'm sort of offended at you calling the piece a "crapshow".

 

This was a piece on 223/556 ballistics and wounds and the medical community and first responders adapting to save more lives for next time... . I thought Scott's opening was particularly accurate:

 

The AR15 style rifle is the most popular rifle in America, there are well over 11 million. And they are rarely used in crime. Handguns kill far more people. But the AR15 is the choice of our worst mass murderers. AR15 ammunition travels up to 3 times the speed of sound, and tonight, we're going to slow that down so you can see why the AR15's high velocity ammo is the fear of every American emergency room.

It goes on to present some pretty good info. I like the idea of an active killer kit.

 

It was indeed about the difference in rifle vs handgun ballistics and critical first aid, but the thing about AR15s being the firearm of choice for mass murderers is still misleading. AR15s are the most popular choice of rifle for everybody. Mass murderers are a subset of everybody. It's kind of like saying oxygen is the respiratory gas of choice for mass murderers.

 

 

"The AR15 style rifle is the most popular rifle in America, there are well over 11 million. And they are rarely used in crime. Handguns kill far more people. But the AR15 is the choice of our worst mass murderers. AR15 ammunition travels up to 3 times the speed of sound, and tonight, we're going to slow that down so you can see why the AR15's high velocity ammo is the fear of every American emergency room."

 

I'm not finding it at all misleading. The specific mass murders (Sandy Hook, Vegas, Texas church, Pittsburgh) were enumerated.

[wig]

It incensed me because it was played out to be a neutral story about ballistics, but had massive overtones of how bad this rifle is. As another stated, why didn't they show the ballistic outcomes from a bunch of other rounds? Was the 9mm ball ammo or hydra shock/hollow point? Why state it's semi and show an un-buyable 416 full-auto rifle? Why spend more than half of the show interviewing the victims? How about interviewing those who saved lives because they had one? You know, to balance it out and be unbiased. 60 minutes tends to have great reporting, but this piece smelled of a Bloomberg commercial. And if you shoot, you have a bleed kit. If you don't - you should. Things happen at ranges and as we all well know - help is minutes away at best. A simple tourniquet and clot pack in a rip-off pouch is cheap insurance you can come back to that range one day.

 

But my favorite is that oxygen is the gas of choice for mass murderers. They should have expanded on that concept as well. If we were a country that loved .308 and 5.56 wasn't a thing - they'd blame that.

[GeekDad]

I saw it too and did my best not to make nasty comments at the TV. I give them credit for the facts early on:

 

"The AR15 style rifle is the most popular rifle in America, there are well over 11 million. And they are rarely used in crime. Handguns kill far more people. But the AR15 is the choice of our worst mass murderers. AR15 ammunition travels up to 3 times the speed of sound, and tonight, we're going to slow that down so you can see why the AR15's high velocity ammo is the fear of every American emergency room."

 

What bothered me is they totally left out that the high velocity characteristic is a fundamental aspect of how almost all rifles and rifle ammunition work (except pistol caliber carbines).

 

The AR15 is just another example and not anything really special other than its commonality. It would have been nice if they at least explained that .223/5.56 ammunition can't be used for hunting deer in most states because it's considered to be too "weak". (Not my opinion, just what I saw when i did a little research on the claim)

[Euler]

 

It was indeed about the difference in rifle vs handgun ballistics and critical first aid, but the thing about AR15s being the firearm of choice for mass murderers is still misleading. AR15s are the most popular choice of rifle for everybody. Mass murderers are a subset of everybody. It's kind of like saying oxygen is the respiratory gas of choice for mass murderers.

...

 

I'm not finding it at all misleading. The specific mass murders (Sandy Hook, Vegas, Texas church, Pittsburgh) were enumerated.

 

They're implying that mass murderers choose AR15s because they're deadly. The more likely reality is they choose AR15s because they're common. There are deadlier guns or, to the point of the piece, deadlier ammos. Moreover, AR15s are not common because they're deadly. The number of AR15s used in murders (mass or otherwise) is truly tiny compared to the number in existence, so people aren't buying them to kill other people. Therefore they're buying them for other reasons, like cost, simplicity of maintenance, ease of operation, availability of options, etc.

 

If you don't like murderers breathing oxygen as an analogy, how about drunk drivers killing more people with Honda Accords than any other car? (Or it was a few years ago. Maybe another model is more popular now.) Did drunk drivers choose the Honda Accord to kill people? Or did drunk drivers just drive an exceedingly common car that they bought for a multitude of practical reasons that had nothing to do with killing people?

 

CNN compiled sales statistics from (I think) 2016. AR15s comprised 60% of all rifle sales. Based on that alone, I think you could expect that 60% of all mass murderers would use AR15s, for no other reason than because it's what people own. As I said, add the other factors that make AR15s popular, and you get why people, including the exceedingly tiny fraction that are mass murderers, prefer them.

[Euler]

... Was the 9mm ball ammo or hydra shock/hollow point? Why state it's semi and show an un-buyable 416 full-auto rifle? Why spend more than half of the show interviewing the victims? ...

 

But my favorite is that oxygen is the gas of choice for mass murderers. They should have expanded on that concept as well. If we were a country that loved .308 and 5.56 wasn't a thing - they'd blame that.

The 9mm was clearly FMJ. It produced no cavity at all. However, the .223 round fragmented (as well as keyholed), so I suspect it was soft-point.

 

I don't think the model of rifle matters. They only fired one round. Any .223 rifle would have pushed the bullet out the barrel the same. For whatever reason, the lab had an HK, so that's what they used. They could have used a Remington 700 and gotten the same results, but then people would have asked why they used a bolt gun when they were talking about semi-autos before.

 

Remember that the story is ostensibly about how rifle rounds are more devastating than handgun rounds, so they're going to show people who were shot.

 

Oxygen is just a good analogy that has other uses. If you remember the Mumbai terror attacks in 2008, people were appalled that terrorists coordinated several different attacks at different hotels across the city using their cell phones, text messages, and Twitter. Some very vocal people at the time suggested that cell phones should be banned or severely restricted to keep terrorists from using them, despite the fact that there are lots of people, including emergency responders, who use cell phones more. Criminals use lots of things that ordinary people use. That's not a reason to deprive everyone. It's necessary to discern what criminals do differently from other people and deprive them of that specifically.

[ILgunguy]

I watched all of it when it aired. It was a carefully timed and written piece that was meant to play to the anti crowd immediately before the election on a popular channel at primetime. If it was not a hit piece on so-called assault weapons, they wouldn't have reiterated the AR15 name multiple times.

 

The logic is quite easy to follow: If you are going to buy the whole MSR, most common rifle idea from the pro 2A crowd, let us tell you about the way these guns destroy people so now you will hate them even more.

 

If the piece was truly about how ordinary civilians are being trained to be first responders, it should have spent more time on that. You can talk about the bleeding kids without spending that much time on .223 wound ballistics.

[Skolnick]

Criminals use lots of things that ordinary people use. That's not a reason to deprive everyone. It's necessary to discern what criminals do differently from other people and deprive them of that specifically.

Jeff Jacoby, Boston Globe, 11/21/10:

Anyone who has traveled through Israel's Ben Gurion airport or on El Al, the Israeli airline, has experienced what is widely considered the finest aviation security system in the world. That system doesn't involve taking off shoes, confiscating water bottles, patting down toddlers, or conducting nude X-ray scans. Nor does it involve shutting down an entire terminal because a passenger inadvertently walked through the wrong door.

 

It does, however, involve careful attention to behavior, individual conversations with every traveler, and a lack of politically-correct inhibitions about profiling. Unlike TSA, the Israelis focus not on intercepting dangerous things, but on stopping dangerous people. It is hard to argue with their results.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Skolnick adds: Once, Saturday Night Live did a skit on a bunch of TSA trainees -- one of the trainees asked what's to stop a dozen of terrorists from bringing in a dozen 3 ounces bottles, and then assembling the liquid explosives past security? Even SNL could see the joke in the dog & pony show.

And what do they do with those liquids they take from us? They toss them into a barrel so they can sit together all day long next to the TSA agents who pretend those liquids are too dangerous!

[SiliconSorcerer]

The Israel's have learned a lot long ago the hard way.

 

There's 3 types of people in the world...

Those who learn by reading

Those who learn by observing

Those who just have to p... on the electric fence, welcome to America weener out ready to go....

[cybermgk]

No shame at all in watching by far the best news program ever!

I'm sort of offended at you calling the piece a "crapshow".

 

 

This was a piece on 223/556 ballistics and wounds and the medical community and first responders adapting to save more lives for next time... . I thought Scott's opening was particularly accurate:

 

"The AR15 style rifle is the most popular rifle in America, there are well over 11 million. And they are rarely used in crime. Handguns kill far more people. But the AR15 is the choice of our worst mass murderers. AR15 ammunition travels up to 3 times the speed of sound, and tonight, we're going to slow that down so you can see why the AR15's high velocity ammo is the fear of every American emergency room."

 

It goes on to present some pretty good info. I like the idea of an active killer kit.

The red is propoganda, shows a bias, and thus why a crap show.

[cybermgk]

. It would have been nice if they at least explained that .223/5.56 ammunition can't be used for hunting deer in most states because it's considered to be too "weak". (Not my opinion, just what I saw when i did a little research on the claim)

No, it wouldn't have been good. That would just feed the idea that it really isn't good for anything but shooting people. True, from a home/personal defense standpoint. But, I guarentee they wouldn't spin it that way, It IS a very common wild hog caliber AND platform, particularly when you are hunting from air, moving in any way, and have to click of more than one shot.

[GeekDad]

 

. It would have been nice if they at least explained that .223/5.56 ammunition can't be used for hunting deer in most states because it's considered to be too "weak". (Not my opinion, just what I saw when i did a little research on the claim)

No, it wouldn't have been good. That would just feed the idea that it really isn't good for anything but shooting people. True, from a home/personal defense standpoint. But, I guarentee they wouldn't spin it that way, It IS a very common wild hog caliber AND platform, particularly when you are hunting from air, moving in any way, and have to click of more than one shot.

 

 

Good point. My logic was to try and dispel the myth that the AR15 is "High Power".

[wig]

BTW, to those above, yes I know any AR could propel the same velocity (barrel length not withstanding). But one of those things that incensed me was them using a rifle that is clearly illegal to own, no matter what SOT FFL you are, or what stamps you bought. As others have stated, the ammo has way more to do with this. If I had to be shot at, I think I'd prefer a 5.56 FMJ over even a 9mm hollow point. Should be a clean through and through. Also as noted, the tumbling of that round indicates soft tip or hollow point on the rifle round.

 

And thank you to the rest who noticed what really truly set me off which is the liberal lube shoved in between facts. The focus on words, leaning on why THIS is the most DANGEROUS round... kind of thing. This on top of the timing close to the election equals a smear piece, a la serious finesse. Hats off to the person who wrote and directed this because I bet it worked on the kind of folks who don't frequent these parts.

[357]

I remember they tried the same crap show and brought in paid doctors and "ballistics experts" with Feinstein in the Senate after Sandy Hook and failed. They are pulling all the stops under the guise of medical emergency and are demonizing a rifle even though only 3% of murders are committed with rifles and four times more people are killed with knives. They are giving the Democrats a bump with the people who don't know anything about guns and believe that propaganda.