Jump to content


Photo

Straight walled cartridges for deer hunting


  • Please log in to reply
35 replies to this topic

#1 Ranger

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 998 posts
  • Joined: 22-February 09

Posted 01 December 2019 - 09:07 PM

I know several states have now allowed rifles in straight walled cartridges (like 350 legend, .44, etc) to be used for deer hunting. Are you aware of any discussion in Illinois?

#2 Euler

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,112 posts
  • Joined: 26-February 18

Posted 01 December 2019 - 09:23 PM

There have been bills proposed in the past for some calibers for handicapped hunters, but not specifically straight-walled cartridges. They never got out of committee. I don't think there's anything proposed currently.
The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants, and it provides the further advantage of giving the servants of tyranny a good conscience.

- Albert Camus, Resistance, Rebellion, and Death, 1960.


#3 ChicagoRonin70

    The Landlord of the Flies!

  • Supporting Members Team
  • 4,146 posts
  • Joined: 02-August 14

Posted 01 December 2019 - 09:27 PM

So, technically, a .500 Nitro Express, being a straight walled cartridge, would not be allowed for deer?

 

dEecqMd.jpg


"A well educated Media, being necessary for the preservation of a free State, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be infringed."

 

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary for the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

 

Who gets to keep and read books? The Media? Or is it the People?

 

“One can never underestimate the idiocy of those determined to be offended by things that don't affect their real lives in the slightest.” —Me
 
“Hatred is the sharpest sword; the desire for peace is armor made of willow leaves in the face of an enemy who despises you, as neither alone will stop a strike that is aimed at your neck.” —Samurai proverb
 
“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.” —Robert Heinlein
 
“I reserve the right to take any action necessary to maintain the equilibrium in which I've chosen to exist.” —Me
 
"It ain't braggin' if you done it." —Will Rogers

 

 InX89li.jpg
 

 
 
 
 


#4 luckydawg13

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,346 posts
  • Joined: 06-January 13

Posted 01 December 2019 - 09:54 PM

yes it's been talked about for a long time  you can use a straight walled cartridge in a pistol if you want   yes  even a 45/70 460 s&w I have used my Encore in the past 

 with a 13" barrel in 454 but if i was hunting a open  field  a Encore pistol with a 15" barrel would be Awesome 


Kid's that Hunt and Fish don't Mug old Ladies 


#5 Euler

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,112 posts
  • Joined: 26-February 18

Posted 01 December 2019 - 09:54 PM

So, technically, a .500 Nitro Express, being a straight walled cartridge, would not be allowed for deer?


Its actual diameter is 0.510 inches, which is 0.010 inches too large for Illinois. But otherwise, if it could be shot from a handgun, it'd be totally legit.

Edited by Euler, 01 December 2019 - 10:02 PM.

The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants, and it provides the further advantage of giving the servants of tyranny a good conscience.

- Albert Camus, Resistance, Rebellion, and Death, 1960.


#6 Ranger

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 998 posts
  • Joined: 22-February 09

Posted 02 December 2019 - 08:56 AM

Young son, who weighs 48 pounds, is hung ho on deer hunting next year. Wife, who is fairly petite, is strongly considering it too. Thinking it would offer more compact options with less kick for them.

#7 Ranger

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 998 posts
  • Joined: 22-February 09

Posted 02 December 2019 - 09:02 AM

FWIW: I have a S&W performance center bone collector edition in 460 with leupold 2.5 x 8 scope that should be a pretty solid deer thumper when mounted and sighted, but not for them for while at least.

#8 Squints08

  • Members
  • 37 posts
  • Joined: 22-December 17

Posted 02 December 2019 - 11:47 AM

Handguns and deer hunting is something I truly enjoy. I own and have taken deer with a 460 S&W, 454 Casull and a 44 magnum here in our home state of Illinois. The 460 is a true deer stopper out past 100 yards. I shot a doe around 110 yards and it fell right over. The 454 is no slouch either and packs a wallop. However, the recoil on both is not for everybody and pistol skills must be practiced to be comfortable with. This is where the 44 magnum shines. Not too much recoil, accurate and definitely able to drop deer at a reasonable distance. Most important is to pick the correct ammo for hunting and PRACTICE. Good luck and remember your hearing protection because when hand cannons go off you will regret not wearing any.



#9 luckydawg13

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,346 posts
  • Joined: 06-January 13

Posted 02 December 2019 - 01:39 PM

Young son, who weighs 48 pounds, is hung ho on deer hunting next year. Wife, who is fairly petite, is strongly considering it too. Thinking it would offer more compact options with less kick for them.

I would look into a muzzleloader it was a lot easier for my Son  to shoot then a 20ga with slugs by far  I use to love going on our youth Deer hunt in early October 

 

and a 44 magnum will kick about the same as a 30/30 with factory loads 


Edited by luckydawg13, 02 December 2019 - 01:43 PM.

Kid's that Hunt and Fish don't Mug old Ladies 


#10 Gamma

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,515 posts
  • Joined: 29-December 13

Posted 02 December 2019 - 06:26 PM

There is no logical reason for the same cartridges that are legal for handgun hunting to not be able to be used in a rifle. If safety is the point, then pick the firearm that maximizes the hunter's ability to hit the target.

Of course there's no logical reason for an 6, 7 or 8 shot revolver to be legal, but all non-revolver handguns must be single shot.

There's no logical reason for much of what the IL GA does, but that doesn't stop them.

Edited by Gamma, 02 December 2019 - 06:27 PM.

Illinois' FCCA is a prime example of the maxim that sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.

#11 GTX63

    Member

  • Members
  • 4,931 posts
  • Joined: 19-June 13

Posted 02 December 2019 - 06:31 PM

I heard a conservation rep tell a group of guys once that rifle hunting isn't allowed in Illinois because the state is too flat and they would kill somebody.

I don't recall if I laughed or just shook my head.



#12 Euler

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,112 posts
  • Joined: 26-February 18

Posted 02 December 2019 - 08:00 PM

In the 1980s and 90s, several states passed laws against rifle hunting, because they feared what would happen if a hunter shot at a deer and missed. They believed the bullet would travel for ever and ever, never stopping, never slowing down, until it found a human being to kill, probably a child.

I'm not exaggerating.

Really.

But they thought shotgun slugs and pellets and handgun bullets would be okay.

Many of those states have since repealed their restrictions on rifle hunting.

Welcome to Illinois.

Edited by Euler, 02 December 2019 - 08:13 PM.

The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants, and it provides the further advantage of giving the servants of tyranny a good conscience.

- Albert Camus, Resistance, Rebellion, and Death, 1960.


#13 mobilemail

  • Members
  • 3 posts
  • Joined: 12-October 19

Posted 02 December 2019 - 09:05 PM

HB2783 was introduced earlier this year, and even passed the house. Unfortunately when it hit the senate, it was never given any real consideration and ended up parked in assignments.  Bill's history at http://ilga.gov/legi...Session=&GA=101

 

I thought it was a wonderful idea and filed witness slips when appropriate to try to help it along. I hope this bill comes back. 

 

 

Slightly off topic - this is my first post on this forum...the first time I had something meaningful to add.  I found this site last year when I was following airgun-related legislation, and got a real education on the crummy Illinois politics surrounding gun law.  Since then I've filed numerous witness slips, sent numerous letters to congressmen, and joined a few more state and national gun rights advocacy groups.  My thanks to the administrators and senior members on this forum for all your hard work.



#14 Nod

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 299 posts
  • Joined: 14-July 15

Posted 02 December 2019 - 09:12 PM

Does that mean that my dad's 38-55 is illegal for deer? Can't possibly see why.



#15 mobilemail

  • Members
  • 3 posts
  • Joined: 12-October 19

Posted 03 December 2019 - 02:10 AM

Under current Illinois law, every centerfire rifle is illegal for deer, even the ones chambered for the same cartridge as a pistol that is legal for hunting deer.



#16 CILhunter

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 271 posts
  • Joined: 12-January 13

Posted 03 December 2019 - 06:57 AM

Under current Illinois law, every centerfire rifle is illegal for deer, even the ones chambered for the same cartridge as a pistol that is legal for hunting deer.

True

 

But you can chamber an AR pistol, (firearm with less than a 16 inch barrel and no traditional stock - legally a pistol) in 300 Black Out, get a special magazine follower that only allows single rounds to be loaded, and be perfectly legal to hunt deer.  DNR actually put out a paper on this question outlining the requirements.  Could possibly do other calibers, as long as they are at least 30 cal.  But watch out for the case length limit for bottleneck cartridges.  Because the state can't leave well enough the heck alone on anything, there is a limit to the case length.  When last I looked, I *think* 300BO was the only bottleneck cartridge that met the requirement.  Straight walled cartridges like 350 Legend don't have a case length requirement.  Not sure how 350 Legend performs out of a less-than-16-inch barrel.



#17 GTX63

    Member

  • Members
  • 4,931 posts
  • Joined: 19-June 13

Posted 03 December 2019 - 08:57 AM

I think in many parts of Illinois, hearing a rifle round during deer season is enough to get an uptight neighbor to jack up their pants and start dropping dimes to the conservation po po.

Legal or not.



#18 mobilemail

  • Members
  • 3 posts
  • Joined: 12-October 19

Posted 03 December 2019 - 08:38 PM

The IDNR annual hunting rules publication specifically states that the only legal handguns for deer hunting are a single shot pistol or a revolver with minimum 4” barrel. Semi-autos need not apply. You can refer to the manual for other requirements as to cartridge type and power.



#19 Birdhunter1

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 506 posts
  • Joined: 06-March 13

Posted 04 December 2019 - 07:59 AM

The IDNR annual hunting rules publication specifically states that the only legal handguns for deer hunting are a single shot pistol or a revolver with minimum 4” barrel. Semi-autos need not apply. You can refer to the manual for other requirements as to cartridge type and power.

You are correct, and "an AR pistol, (firearm with less than a 16 inch barrel and no traditional stock - legally a pistol) in 300 Black Out, get a special magazine follower that only allows single rounds to be loaded, and be perfectly legal to hunt deer."

 

But I'm not sure about that under 16" requirement for it to be a pistol.



#20 2smartby1/2

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 610 posts
  • Joined: 30-April 18

Posted 05 December 2019 - 04:16 PM

This...

.300 blk pistol + quick release 3x magnifier + Bob sled + Barnes 110gr Tac-tx. 

 

This is the same weapon I keep folded in my backpack, and also ready at night.  I just pop off the 3x and run a normal 20 round mag (with 5 round limiter) mag full of different ammo.  

Attached Thumbnails

  • 8B8D42F8-95BC-4571-B335-9051E4CF3171.jpeg

Edited by 2smartby1/2, 05 December 2019 - 04:22 PM.


#21 Flynn

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,233 posts
  • Joined: 20-August 18

Posted 05 December 2019 - 04:27 PM

I think in many parts of Illinois, hearing a rifle round during deer season is enough to get an uptight neighbor to jack up their pants and start dropping dimes to the conservation po po.

Legal or not.

 

Yep, I agree.

 

For me it was really refreshing to step out of the inlaws house this turkey holiday in Arkansas and hear the rifle reports coming from every direction, the father in law said a lot of land around him is rented out by the local deer club(s).


Anonymous leakers, leak anonymously about the anonymous leak.
 
—Anonymous

#22 Flingarrows

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 307 posts
  • Joined: 19-June 16

Posted 05 December 2019 - 06:28 PM


Under current Illinois law, every centerfire rifle is illegal for deer, even the ones chambered for the same cartridge as a pistol that is legal for hunting deer.


True
 
But you can chamber an AR pistol, (firearm with less than a 16 inch barrel and no traditional stock - legally a pistol) in 300 Black Out, get a special magazine follower that only allows single rounds to be loaded, and be perfectly legal to hunt deer.  DNR actually put out a paper on this question outlining the requirements.  Could possibly do other calibers, as long as they are at least 30 cal.  But watch out for the case length limit for bottleneck cartridges.  Because the state can't leave well enough the heck alone on anything, there is a limit to the case length.  When last I looked, I *think* 300BO was the only bottleneck cartridge that met the requirement.  Straight walled cartridges like 350 Legend don't have a case length requirement.  Not sure how 350 Legend performs out of a less-than-16-inch barrel.


My son is looking to do this next year


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

#23 CILhunter

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 271 posts
  • Joined: 12-January 13

Posted 06 December 2019 - 07:15 AM

 

Under current Illinois law, every centerfire rifle is illegal for deer, even the ones chambered for the same cartridge as a pistol that is legal for hunting deer.


True
 
But you can chamber an AR pistol, (firearm with less than a 16 inch barrel and no traditional stock - legally a pistol) in 300 Black Out, get a special magazine follower that only allows single rounds to be loaded, and be perfectly legal to hunt deer.  DNR actually put out a paper on this question outlining the requirements.  Could possibly do other calibers, as long as they are at least 30 cal.  But watch out for the case length limit for bottleneck cartridges.  Because the state can't leave well enough the heck alone on anything, there is a limit to the case length.  When last I looked, I *think* 300BO was the only bottleneck cartridge that met the requirement.  Straight walled cartridges like 350 Legend don't have a case length requirement.  Not sure how 350 Legend performs out of a less-than-16-inch barrel.


My son is looking to do this next year


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

I built and used one this year.  Worked great.  I just unclip the front sling swivel, push out the takedown pins and replace my 10.5 inch 5.56 upper with my 10.5 inch 300BO upper with a 3-9x scope on the top rail. I sourced a barrel with a carbine length gas system (most 300BO are pistol length) for a slightly gentler recoil impulse, though 300BO is not much worse than 5.56.  I bought an inexpensive metal 10rd. magazine (all the rest of my 10rd mags are polymer, so this differentiates it immediately) and replaced the traditional follower with a sled follower. Allows one round to be dropped into an open bolt, push the bolt release to close, and then it locks the bolt open after the shot.  With high quality projectiles the deer is DRT, as long as I take care of my business.

 

FYI, ILDNR has said repeatedly in clarifying letters and memoranda that the operative portion of the relevant firearm regulation is "single shot". You can have automatic extraction of the fired case, but you must manually reload a new round.  This is different from several eastern states where you could have a 5 round magazine, but could not have auto extraction and loading.  This was remedied by removing the gas tube from your AR and cycling the action by hand after each shot.



#24 2smartby1/2

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 610 posts
  • Joined: 30-April 18

Posted 06 December 2019 - 07:50 AM

^Yup, I purchased an adjustable gas block for my .300, but didn't need it since the Bob Sled by itself is fine.   

 

So I guess I'll have to build a new weapon around that gas block.....you know how it goes.....



#25 Euler

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,112 posts
  • Joined: 26-February 18

Posted 06 December 2019 - 02:53 PM

...
FYI, ILDNR has said repeatedly in clarifying letters and memoranda that the operative portion of the relevant firearm regulation is "single shot". You can have automatic extraction of the fired case, but you must manually reload a new round.  This is different from several eastern states where you could have a 5 round magazine, but could not have auto extraction and loading.  This was remedied by removing the gas tube from your AR and cycling the action by hand after each shot.


Kali Key turns an AR into a bolt action. It was made to jump through hoops in California, but it could work anywhere. I'm not sure if IDNR would agree.
The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants, and it provides the further advantage of giving the servants of tyranny a good conscience.

- Albert Camus, Resistance, Rebellion, and Death, 1960.


#26 InterestedBystander

    Member

  • Supporting Members Team
  • 6,914 posts
  • Joined: 15-March 13

Posted 06 December 2019 - 06:13 PM

 
Yep, I agree.
 
For me it was really refreshing to step out of the inlaws house this turkey holiday in Arkansas and hear the rifle reports coming from every direction, the father in law said a lot of land around him is rented out by the local deer club(s).


;-)

63c2476b3b52f00d2f2f6d631c2aa9e7_98b7f7e
NRA Life Member
ISRA Member
FFL-IL Supporter
SAF Member
GOA Member
🇺🇸

#27 CILhunter

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 271 posts
  • Joined: 12-January 13

Posted 09 December 2019 - 06:37 AM

 

...
FYI, ILDNR has said repeatedly in clarifying letters and memoranda that the operative portion of the relevant firearm regulation is "single shot". You can have automatic extraction of the fired case, but you must manually reload a new round.  This is different from several eastern states where you could have a 5 round magazine, but could not have auto extraction and loading.  This was remedied by removing the gas tube from your AR and cycling the action by hand after each shot.


Kali Key turns an AR into a bolt action. It was made to jump through hoops in California, but it could work anywhere. I'm not sure if IDNR would agree.

 

The problem would be the magazine capacity.  DNR doesn't care about the method of case extraction (semi auto, manual, whatever). They do care about the magazine capacity.  That would be ZERO.  Unless it is a revolver, a handgun must be a single shot firearm in order to be hunting-legal in the People's Republic of Illinois.



#28 Gamma

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,515 posts
  • Joined: 29-December 13

Posted 09 December 2019 - 01:46 PM

there is a limit to the case length.  When last I looked, I *think* 300BO was the only bottleneck cartridge that met the requirement.

The limit is 1.4 inches, there are some other cartridges that meet the requirements.
Illinois' FCCA is a prime example of the maxim that sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.

#29 Longrange454

  • Members
  • 13 posts
  • Joined: 09-February 19

Posted 10 December 2019 - 07:52 AM

Years ago there was a bill proposed to allow black powder cartridges, but i don't think it ever made it out of committe. Today you can't prove to me that the sabot slugs don't out shoot my 45/90. So what's wrong with these idiots.



#30 Birdhunter1

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 506 posts
  • Joined: 06-March 13

Posted 10 December 2019 - 01:01 PM

I would be willing to bet politicians are somehow making bank off of ammunition manufacturers and distributors who load and sell sabot slugs.  They're priced like their gold and components to load the best ones in a shotgun sabot slug are extremely hard to find. 

Its the Illinois way, if we could use centerfire rifles I wouldn't be buying ammunition just alot of components which do not make as much money.






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users