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ISPFSB Freedom of Information Act Request


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#1 AllenG

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 04:43 PM

Hello, I am new to this site, and this is my very first post, so please be forgiving of any errors on my part.

 

I am a 21 year old Southern Illinois University-Carbondale student and a resident of Shelby county, and I submitted my CCL application about a month ago. I happened to be leisurely reading the Firearm Concealed Carry Act when I noticed that $120 of every application is supposed to go to the ISPFSB, which got me wondering why they are so darn slow and understaffed. According to my research, there are over 300,000 concealed carry licenses in the state, which equates to over $36,000,000 going into the firearms services bureau just from Concealed Carry Licenses. In an effort to figure out where that money has gone, I have filed a Freedom of Information Act request for records pertaining to these funds. I have attached my request to this post for your entertainment. I will keep you all updated.

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#2 Grayhawk

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 04:51 PM

CCL renewals require additional monies.  It is a cash cow...........


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#3 mauserme

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 04:52 PM

Hello, I am new to this site, and this is my very first post, so please be forgiving of any errors on my part.
 
I am a 21 year old Southern Illinois University-Carbondale student and a resident of Shelby county, and I submitted my CCL application about a month ago. I happened to be leisurely reading the Firearm Concealed Carry Act when I noticed that $120 of every application is supposed to go to the ISPFSB, which got me wondering why they are so darn slow and understaffed. According to my research, there are over 300,000 concealed carry licenses in the state, which equates to over $36,000,000 going into the firearms services bureau just from Concealed Carry Licenses. In an effort to figure out where that money has gone, I have filed a Freedom of Information Act request for records pertaining to these funds. I have attached my request to this post for your entertainment. I will keep you all updated.


Thank you, sir. I look forwarding to seeing the results.

#4 steveTA84

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 05:36 PM

FOIA is your friend. Nice!!!!!! From experience with dealing with the ISP FOIA people, expect the response to be between 30-90 days

#5 WitchDoctor

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 05:56 PM

You know this is Illinois ($$$)!

Who really knows where the money goes, but nice work and I look forward to seeing the results of your query.


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#6 2A4Cook

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 06:05 PM

"Friends of Kathleen Willis"

#7 steveTA84

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 06:10 PM

This got me digging. Why is the ISPFSB site being run out of Louisville, KY???

https://site-stats.o...com/#map_detail


Edit: nothing major. Its hosted by Appriss Inc, which does stuff for LE (and also lobbies/donates in favor republicans in KY). Hey, maybe the dems can get on board with Void the FOID because of that......

Edited by steveTA84, 01 December 2019 - 06:20 PM.


#8 speedbump

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 06:26 PM

Good work, AllenG, don't forget to add in the $10 every 10 years for a FOID card...multiplied by the @2.3 million current FOID applicants (it's non refundable).

You might also query the total cost of operations for the ISPFSB. There are only a few employees, and modest costs. Where does the appropriated money go? ;)

Edited by speedbump, 01 December 2019 - 06:28 PM.

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#9 lilguy

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 06:31 PM

That money can fund a lot of corruption. They so enjoy Fing over gun owners in this state. Thanks my friend for going to the mat for us all.



#10 TomKoz

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 06:39 PM

You may have been better off waiting until your CCL was approved and in hand before stirring the nest.
Just saying.
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#11 steveTA84

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 06:40 PM

That money can fund a lot of corruption. They so enjoy Fing over gun owners in this state. Thanks my friend for going to the mat for us all.



This has sparked my interest greatly. OP, I’ll post if I find stuff here

#12 InterestedBystander

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 07:44 PM

This got me digging. Why is the ISPFSB site being run out of Louisville, KY???https://site-stats.o...com/#map_detail
Edit: nothing major. Its hosted by Appriss Inc, which does stuff for LE (and also lobbies/donates in favor republicans in KY). Hey, maybe the dems can get on board with Void the FOID because of that......

But the last I checked the web site was registered to Appriss and not the ISP. Bad move giving them total control...should be managed and controlled by ISP.
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#13 InterestedBystander

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 07:49 PM

I had started on a similar request but never got around to submitting. The fund gets more than a portion of CCL fees including FOID and others. I look forward to the response. Would be interesting to see current fund value now vs beginning of year.
=============
as of April:
State Police Firearm Services Funding - amount per fee going to fund

FOID (over 2.1M issued)
$3 per new card
$10 per renewal
$5 per corrected or replacement card

CCL (over 301K issued)
$120 per new or renewal card
$250 per non-resident new or renewal card
$60 per replacement card
========
FOID
$6 of each fee derived from the issuance of Firearm Owner's Identification Cards, or renewals thereof, shall be deposited in the Wildlife and Fish Fund in the State Treasury; $1 of the fee shall be deposited in the State Police Services Fund and $3 of the fee shall be deposited in the State Police Firearm Services Fund.

The cost for a renewal application shall be $10 which shall be deposited into the State Police Firearm Services Fund.

The cost for a corrected card shall be $5. The cost for replacement of a card which has been lost, destroyed, or stolen shall be $5 if the loss, destruction, or theft of the card is reported to the Department of State Police. The fees collected under this Section shall be deposited into the State Police Firearm Services Fund.
========
CCL
Sec. 60. Fees.
(a) All fees collected under this Act shall be deposited as provided in this Section. Application, renewal, and replacement fees shall be non-refundable.
(B) An applicant for a new license or a renewal shall submit $150 with the application, of which $120 shall be apportioned to the State Police Firearm Services Fund, $20 shall be apportioned to the Mental Health Reporting Fund, and $10 shall be apportioned to the State Crime Laboratory Fund.
© A non-resident applicant for a new license or renewal shall submit $300 with the application, of which $250 shall be apportioned to the State Police Firearm Services Fund, $40 shall be apportioned to the Mental Health Reporting Fund, and $10 shall be apportioned to the State Crime Laboratory Fund.
(d) A licensee requesting a new license in accordance with Section 55 shall submit $75, of which $60 shall be apportioned to the State Police Firearm Services Fund, $5 shall be apportioned to the Mental Health Reporting Fund, and $10 shall be apportioned to the State Crime Laboratory Fund.
(Source: P.A. 98-63, eff. 7-9-13.)
===========
(20 ILCS 2605/2605-595)

Sec. 2605-595. State Police Firearm Services Fund.

(a) There is created in the State treasury a special fund known as the State Police Firearm Services Fund. The Fund shall receive revenue under the Firearm Concealed Carry Act and Section 5 of the Firearm Owners Identification Card Act. The Fund may also receive revenue from grants, pass-through grants, donations, appropriations, and any other legal source.

(B) The Department of State Police may use moneys in the Fund to finance any of its lawful purposes, mandates, functions, and duties under the Firearm Owners Identification Card Act and the Firearm Concealed Carry Act, including the cost of sending notices of expiration of Firearm Owner's Identification Cards, concealed carry licenses, the prompt and efficient processing of applications under the Firearm Owners Identification Card Act and the Firearm Concealed Carry Act, the improved efficiency and reporting of the LEADS and federal NICS law enforcement data systems, and support for investigations required under these Acts and law. Any surplus funds beyond what is needed to comply with the aforementioned purposes shall be used by the Department to improve the Law Enforcement Agencies Data System (LEADS) and criminal history background check system.

© Investment income that is attributable to the investment of moneys in the Fund shall be retained in the Fund for the uses specified in this Section.

Edited by InterestedBystander, 02 December 2019 - 01:10 AM.

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#14 NRApistol

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 08:02 PM

Hello, I am new to this site, and this is my very first post, so please be forgiving of any errors on my part.

 

I am a 21 year old Southern Illinois University-Carbondale student and a resident of Shelby county, and I submitted my CCL application about a month ago. I happened to be leisurely reading the Firearm Concealed Carry Act when I noticed that $120 of every application is supposed to go to the ISPFSB, which got me wondering why they are so darn slow and understaffed. According to my research, there are over 300,000 concealed carry licenses in the state, which equates to over $36,000,000 going into the firearms services bureau just from Concealed Carry Licenses. In an effort to figure out where that money has gone, I have filed a Freedom of Information Act request for records pertaining to these funds. I have attached my request to this post for your entertainment. I will keep you all updated.

AllenG, Welcome to the forum.  I hope they include the funds for change of address. I taught a lot of Shelby county residents their CC requirements at the start of CC in Illinois. About 2 or 3 years after the start of CC Shelby County changed their address system to comply with their 911 system. All rural residents got new 911 addresses and had to update their DL, FOID and CCL and they never moved. It got to the point that I avoided getting gas at Caseys  in Windsor so I didn"t hear the complaints about spending another $75 for CC and never moving.


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#15 ChicagoRonin70

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 08:05 PM

I think that if a massively redacted response, or a failure to provide information legally due, then litigation, in particular a class-action consisting of every CCL and FOID holder, would not only be entirely reasonable, but well-nigh required. I'd be very willing to donate time and money to that cause.

 

OP, please keep us informed as to your results.


"A well educated Media, being necessary for the preservation of a free State, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be infringed."

 

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary for the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

 

Who gets to keep and read books? The Media? Or is it the People?

 

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#16 Ranger

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 08:36 PM

FWIW: Here is a link to the FOIA stuff and the contact info for the public access person in charge of enforcing it. From pragmatic perspective, I don't know that there really is much enforcement. I know of an entity who has ignored it for many years on some important stuff and had complaints and nothing has happened to them so they still do it.

http://foia.ilattorneygeneral.net/

#17 Ranger

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 08:37 PM

To OP, good job!

#18 ScopeEye

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 10:08 PM

In, for the disappointment...



#19 RANDY

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 07:19 AM

 

Hello, I am new to this site, and this is my very first post, so please be forgiving of any errors on my part.

 

I am a 21 year old Southern Illinois University-Carbondale student and a resident of Shelby county, and I submitted my CCL application about a month ago. I happened to be leisurely reading the Firearm Concealed Carry Act when I noticed that $120 of every application is supposed to go to the ISPFSB, which got me wondering why they are so darn slow and understaffed. According to my research, there are over 300,000 concealed carry licenses in the state, which equates to over $36,000,000 going into the firearms services bureau just from Concealed Carry Licenses. In an effort to figure out where that money has gone, I have filed a Freedom of Information Act request for records pertaining to these funds. I have attached my request to this post for your entertainment. I will keep you all updated.

AllenG, Welcome to the forum.  I hope they include the funds for change of address. I taught a lot of Shelby county residents their CC requirements at the start of CC in Illinois. About 2 or 3 years after the start of CC Shelby County changed their address system to comply with their 911 system. All rural residents got new 911 addresses and had to update their DL, FOID and CCL and they never moved. It got to the point that I avoided getting gas at Caseys  in Windsor so I didn"t hear the complaints about spending another $75 for CC and never moving.

 

There was also a secret to that.  If you called the ISPFSB and could get through they would do an address change due to 911 address change They would charge the $6 for FOID and the FCCL was free..  Had to be approved by the director, and it would suspend your FCCL for a couple of days while the paperwork processed.


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#20 Jeffrey

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 08:13 AM

Great first post.  We need more inquiring minds such as yours that go to the next level.  Hopefully a response from them is quick and not a solid blacked out bunch of pages.


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#21 steveTA84

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 08:46 AM

Great first post.  We need more inquiring minds such as yours that go to the next level.  Hopefully a response from them is quick and not a solid blacked out bunch of pages.


Ill never forget this one LOL

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#22 Jeffrey

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 09:38 AM

You know Jabba was laughing at that one.


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#23 steveTA84

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 10:02 AM

You know Jabba was laughing at that one.

I dont think Jabba and friends will laugh at the OPs request. They better give him exactly what he asked for

https://chicago.sunt...our-governments

Good on Gov. J.B. Pritzker for making one of his first official acts signing an executive order on transparency. It requires all state agencies under his purview to release all data required by law to be disclosed, and to go beyond that whenever possible voluntarily.

Weve got a crisis in Chicago and in Illinois that involves secret-keeping by those who govern us. Too many government officials dont comply with laws that compel them to tell us what theyre up to. We cannot monitor nor improve our democracy if its actors are breaking the law, keeping secrets from us and getting away with it...................

What is most alarming, but perhaps not surprising, is that it is law enforcement agencies most frequently violating the law.

In appeals over those years to the PAC, government bodies did not even respond to a legal request for information 4,600 times. The top law breakers were the Chicago Police Department (ignoring 672 requests), the Illinois Department of Corrections (519), the State Police (200), Chicago Public Schools (199) and, get this, the Cook County states sttorneys office (162).



OP, do you have a screenshot of the email (if sent by email) you sent to the ISP? If so, could you post it here (with your info redacted)? If snail mail, disregard.

Edited by steveTA84, 02 December 2019 - 10:08 AM.


#24 steveTA84

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 10:41 AM

Uh oh......

https://www.auditor....P-Comp-Full.pdf

First
kOpDqqQ.jpg

And some more stuff
Bc20LFT.jpg

YGUVfKR.jpg

7KOhVdD.jpg

03yb3cH.jpg

More in audit link, but numbers are definitely not matching up. Maybe someone with more bookkeeping knowledge can chime in....

Edited by steveTA84, 02 December 2019 - 10:47 AM.


#25 ChicagoRonin70

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 10:47 AM

Uh oh......

https://www.auditor....P-Comp-Full.pdf


More in audit link, but numbers are definitely not matching up....

 

So, do those lapsed balances mean that those are the amounts from the CCL fees that are not being used for their intended, legally-designated purposes?


"A well educated Media, being necessary for the preservation of a free State, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be infringed."

 

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary for the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

 

Who gets to keep and read books? The Media? Or is it the People?

 

“One can never underestimate the idiocy of those determined to be offended by things that don't affect their real lives in the slightest.” —Me
 
“Hatred is the sharpest sword; the desire for peace is armor made of willow leaves in the face of an enemy who despises you, as neither alone will stop a strike that is aimed at your neck.” —Samurai proverb
 
“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.” —Robert Heinlein
 
“I reserve the right to take any action necessary to maintain the equilibrium in which I've chosen to exist.” —Me
 
"It ain't braggin' if you done it." —Will Rogers

 

 InX89li.jpg
 

 
 
 
 


#26 steveTA84

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 10:55 AM

trSx5c8.jpg
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#27 steveTA84

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 10:56 AM

Uh oh......https://www.auditor....P-Comp-Full.pdf
More in audit link, but numbers are definitely not matching up....

 
So, do those lapsed balances mean that those are the amounts from the CCL fees that are not being used for their intended, legally-designated purposes?

I don’t pretend to know, but it certainly appears that way

#28 ChicagoRonin70

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 11:18 AM

 

 

Uh oh......https://www.auditor....P-Comp-Full.pdf
More in audit link, but numbers are definitely not matching up....

 
So, do those lapsed balances mean that those are the amounts from the CCL fees that are not being used for their intended, legally-designated purposes?

I don’t pretend to know, but it certainly appears that way

 

 

I put in an inquiry to an accountant who has worked for a government finance accounting company and major not-for-profits to get clarification as to what that means. From my understanding, it seems that the lapsed balance is the appropriated amount not used for the designated purposes, and so if it is not brought forward to the next period, or allowed to be brought forward, it is no longer usable to pay bills.

 

If that is indeed the case here, then failure to use those funds as required by law is illegal, or at the very least there should be a reevaluation of the fees that generate them, so that these funds are not being built up as waste surplus. Additionally, if they are not used, then reasonably they should be returned to those who paid them, i.e., the individuals who paid for their licenses expecting that the funds would, in fact, be put to use as the law designated that they are.

 

So, it appears that those funds should either be returned to the licensees in percentage to what was not used, or Illinois needs hire and expand the apparatus and employees that process firearm use/ownership licenses, with the appropriate controls and auditing, to make use of it, and thus properly and effectively serve the people whose taxes fund the state's operations. If not, then the fees are too high and should be lowered to correspond with the actual expenses needed to administer the state's licensing scheme.


"A well educated Media, being necessary for the preservation of a free State, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be infringed."

 

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary for the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

 

Who gets to keep and read books? The Media? Or is it the People?

 

“One can never underestimate the idiocy of those determined to be offended by things that don't affect their real lives in the slightest.” —Me
 
“Hatred is the sharpest sword; the desire for peace is armor made of willow leaves in the face of an enemy who despises you, as neither alone will stop a strike that is aimed at your neck.” —Samurai proverb
 
“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.” —Robert Heinlein
 
“I reserve the right to take any action necessary to maintain the equilibrium in which I've chosen to exist.” —Me
 
"It ain't braggin' if you done it." —Will Rogers

 

 InX89li.jpg
 

 
 
 
 


#29 steveTA84

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 11:27 AM

^^^^^

Pretty much throws out the fee increases associated with Fix the FOID if it is in fact funds that are not used, is its millions upon millions just sitting there. And if it is the case (that its just wasted money not being used for intended purpose), perhaps lawsuit time????


Please report back as to what your contact says

Edited by steveTA84, 02 December 2019 - 11:29 AM.


#30 AllenG

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 11:42 AM

Uh oh......

https://www.auditor....P-Comp-Full.pdf

First
kOpDqqQ.jpg

And some more stuff
Bc20LFT.jpg

YGUVfKR.jpg

7KOhVdD.jpg

03yb3cH.jpg

More in audit link, but numbers are definitely not matching up. Maybe someone with more bookkeeping knowledge can chime in....

Excellent work, SteveTA84. It looks like in 2016, The ISP FSB received $676,344 from FOID card applicants ($3 as prescribed by the FOID Act X 225,448) and $14,314,560 from processing CCL applications ($120 X 119,288). That sums up to $14,990,904 total income from FOID and CCL applicants. The FSB only spent $7,683,456, which leaves $7,307,448 unspent dollars from FOID and CCL processing. This begs the question- where the heck did that money ($7,307,448) go? Hopefully we will have more specifics after they comply with my request, but something seems really fishy.






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