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How the 2020 Democrats Differ on Gun Control


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#31 steveTA84

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Posted 21 May 2019 - 01:09 PM

^^^

Agreed. Many pro gun democrats that are as hardcore as many of us.

#32 TomKoz

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Posted 21 May 2019 - 01:21 PM

^^^
Agreed. Many pro gun democrats that are as hardcore as many of us.


^^^

Agreed, BUT they vote for Democrats that want to take your guns !
Stay Alert ... Stay Alive !!

#33 vito

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Posted 21 May 2019 - 01:38 PM

Pro-gun Democrats are either not really pro-gun, or they might be schizophrenic. People with schizophrenia cannot distinguish reality from the fantasy in their own heads. They may hear voices or have hallucinations and are often having delusional thinking. EVERY SINGLE Democrat seeking the Presidential nomination wants to take away our gun rights, and some are willing to use nukes against us. If you support the failed socialist type policies of the Democrats, if you believe in identity politics, if you see everything through a lens of victimhood, then the Democrats are the party for you. But if you value the 2nd Amendment in even the slightest degree, then you have be be mentally ill if you cannot recognize that the Democrats are our enemy. So saying there are hard core pro gun Democrats makes no sense at all. I suspect that any such people are honestly Democrats, but their pro-gun statements are pure BS. 


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#34 chicagoresident

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Posted 21 May 2019 - 02:09 PM

Pro-gun Democrats are either not really pro-gun, or they might be schizophrenic. People with schizophrenia cannot distinguish reality from the fantasy in their own heads.

There is also an entire spectrum of leftists that may disagree with your beliefs, but also similarly oppose government to enforce their beliefs. Most don't vote as neither party represents them. This is why I warn against lumping "the left" all together. We lose allies for the same causes, especially gun rights. The system is manufactured to sow this division, to push people into supporting a bad cause because one party claims to support what they see as a good cause.

Just to re-emphasize 60% of Americans voted last election. Of those that voted Republican they voted for a candidate that supported gun control.

Voting is not a panaceam for freedom.

We live in a CONSTITUTIONAL Republic, America is not a democracy. We elect only democraticly elect politicians to uphold the constitution. No elected official in recent times has done that.

Those that do nothing but blindly vote are responsible for losing our freedom, left and right. Those that take action to support the constitution outside of voting or rebel against unconstitutional laws are more patriotic then the sycophants who say you must vote republican to support the 2nd.

#35 vito

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Posted 21 May 2019 - 02:47 PM

"Blindly vote"? When voting for President we had, and always have, just two choices. The Democrat is NEVER the right choice for a supporter of the 2nd Amendment. Voting 3rd party or not voting is a losing strategy 100% of the time. In his heart, Donald Trump may be lukewarm at best for gun rights. But he is not stupid, and knows that he had the gun vote with him when the only other choice is a gun grabbing Democrat. He nominated Gorsuch and Kavanaugh. While not a sure vote for gun rights, these two are without question better for us than Sotomayor and Kagan. 


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#36 chicagoresident

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Posted 21 May 2019 - 04:18 PM

"Blindly vote"? When voting for President we had, and always have, just two choices. The Democrat is NEVER the right choice for a supporter of the 2nd Amendment. Voting 3rd party or not voting is a losing strategy 100% of the time. In his heart, Donald Trump may be lukewarm at best for gun rights. But he is not stupid, and knows that he had the gun vote with him when the only other choice is a gun grabbing Democrat. He nominated Gorsuch and Kavanaugh. While not a sure vote for gun rights, these two are without question better for us than Sotomayor and Kagan.

Voting is not the only strategy you have to keep your gun rights. You are blind if you think it is.

Again, it's a Republic, not a Democracy. When your choices are infringe a little VS infringe a lot then the part about democratically electing politicians to uphold the constitution is void. It's why many people choose not to vote or vote for an unelectable candidate. That goes beyond just gun rights.

Those people are not your enemies.
https://en.m.wikiped...oxes_of_liberty

Edited by chicagoresident, 21 May 2019 - 05:00 PM.


#37 spec4

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Posted 21 May 2019 - 04:20 PM

The simple fact that anyone with an ounce of sense who has been around awhile  sees is that the Democrat party does not want anything to do with 2A.  Their goal is total disarmament, starting with firearms and moving on to God knows what.  If you can't see that, I almost feel sorry for you.



#38 chicagoresident

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Posted 21 May 2019 - 05:01 PM

The simple fact that anyone with an ounce of sense who has been around awhile  sees is that the Democrat party does not want anything to do with 2A.  Their goal is total disarmament, starting with firearms and moving on to God knows what.  If you can't see that, I almost feel sorry for you.

Compromisers are the enemies, centrists are the enemies. 100 years of lost gun rights are your proof.

Most under the watch of a certain generation that came into voting age when the 1968 GCA was passed. A generation who blindly voted for R's that sided with D's for just about every major piece of gun legislation that came across their desk. R's elected Donald Trump over Ted Cruz even after being shown vids of Trump supporting gun control on several occasions.

There are as many R enemies as D enemies. Republicans are just as likely to go the way of the Dem's. Just wait for the 2024 lineup.

Edited by chicagoresident, 21 May 2019 - 05:19 PM.


#39 TomKoz

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 08:22 AM

SOOOOOOO, how many Republicans voted for the “FOID Fix” that passed IL Judiciary Committee ??
Stay Alert ... Stay Alive !!

#40 chicagoresident

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 09:23 AM

SOOOOOOO, how many Republicans voted for the FOID Fix that passed IL Judiciary Committee ??

http://ilga.gov/legi...7&SessionID=108

Uh, almost all of them. Did you really expect this to prove your point in a state like Illinois?

I don't know how many times I need to point this out, but your beloved Republicans in the state of Illinois that you blindly vote for have been bought and paid for by the same antigun lobby that bought the Dem's. It will happen on a national level given the time. Gun rights don't pay the bills like the antigun lobby. https://www.illinois...tion-pac-25018/

The 2020 candidates are antigun not because they care all that much about guns, but because the billionaires that they represent are paying them to be antigun. Keep your eye on the ball, it's gonna get worse before it gets better. 4 boxes of Liberty, days of the ballot box for a pro gun choice are coming to an end.

Don't forget, Bloomberg ran as a Republican! It goes beyond Bloomberg too
https://www.nbcnews....-stance-n849416 Al Hoffman Jr is building a GOP gun control superpac.

Edited by chicagoresident, 22 May 2019 - 09:35 AM.


#41 vito

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 09:35 AM

How many Democrats supported the bill? I'd guess it was 100%. 


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#42 chicagoresident

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 09:38 AM

How many Democrats supported the bill? I'd guess it was 100%.

And these lame whataboutisms from passivist boomers that have sat on their butts because they chose between infringe a lot and infringe a little bit less is exactly why we are losing gun rights at an alarming pace. Thanks for ruining it for all future generations of gun enthusiasts and freedom lovers.

You risked your life for this country, asked nothing in return and got nothing in return. Now you're losing everything you supposedly stood for because you think you still have a say in government with your vote.

And if you think your vote matters I suggest you do what you tell Pro2A non voting Dem's to do, take back your party.

Edited by chicagoresident, 22 May 2019 - 09:54 AM.


#43 vito

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 09:54 AM

Insisting on absolutism is a losing strategy. It is where you make the good the enemy of perfect. I do not support infringement. But if I withheld my financial and political support from any candidate who did not endorse ABSOLUTE gun ownership, i.e., no restrictions on automatic weapons, no restrictions on artillery, no restrictions on felons, the mentally ill, etc. that would mean never supporting any viable candidate. That would defer the political arena to those that would not just infringe, but totally deny our 2nd Amendment rights. 

 

I made my remark in the reply earlier not to say that all Democrats are bad (although that is a pretty accurate description) or that all Republicans are good (moderately accurate, but certainly not universally true). But at the Federal level, there is little doubt among anyone looking at this matter rationally that the Republicans are less of a threat to our gun rights than are the Democrats. And like it or not, we have a choice of voting for a Democrat or a Republican and nothing else. So sometimes you must support the lesser of evils, or concede the victory to the greater of evils. 

 

Right now we are facing a possible new law in Illinois that would drastically increase the cost and difficulty of getting and renewing a FOID card. The absolutist will insist on not fighting to maintain the current FOID status because even the FOID is a major infringement upon our rights. So refusing to support the status quo against an even more onerous environment will result in our getting this more onerous law. Realism, not fantasy or wishful thinking is what govern our political decisions, including where we fall on our swords and where we suck up and live with it. 


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#44 chicagoresident

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 10:09 AM

Realism, not fantasy or wishful thinking is what govern our political decisions, including where we fall on our swords and where we suck up and live with it.

Or we could set aside ideological differences outside of the constitution, renew our oaths as "We the people" to uphold the constitution, and in great numbers firmly say "We will not comply".

The Jury box of the 4 boxes of freedom doesn't mean Supreme Court picks, it means jury nullification. Refusing to find fellow citizens guilty of unjust government law.

Grow the ranks of gun owners that are the types of gun owners that refuse to live by unconstitutional laws. That's a lot more powerful then voting, bootlicking, and sowing division.

Again, we are a Constitutional Republic, not a Democracy. By saying you have no choice and can only vote for the lesser of 2 evils you betray the constitution and the republic. It's the same weak argument leftists use when defending their awful candidates.

Edited by chicagoresident, 22 May 2019 - 10:35 AM.


#45 vito

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 11:01 AM

I would like to think that most of us would have the courage to vote "not guilty" is serving on a jury of a citizen charged with violating a gun restriction law that we believe to be un-Constitutional. But what is the likelihood of that occurring? I'm almost 76. I have been called for jury duty about a half dozen times, in several different states, but have actually only served on one jury. In that trial I was the Jury Foreman, and the defendant actually asked us to use jury nullification to find him innocent, but it had nothing to do with 2nd Amendment rights (the defendant was someone who called himself a "sovereign citizen" who believed that the laws requiring him to register a motor vehicle and pay for license plates was un-Constitutional). The jury declined to accept his advice and he was found guilty after about 5 minutes of reviewing the facts in the case. I would not hold out much hope that jury nullification is an effective tool in advancing or protecting our gun rights. 


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