Now they are gonna screw up Target

[Elmer Fudd]

Hmmm.......US revives a group to fight homegrown terrorists......wonder if they are going to put OCT on their list...the article is here.

[Molly B.]

This whole situation is far more troubling to those of us that support and practice open carry than those who don't. I hope to eventually see open carry legal in Illinois. Obviously this Texas thing is pushing that timeline back. There are those here that oppose open carry as much as the antis. This is not the time to gloat. You're privilege of concealed carry has its foundation in the right to open carry. Open carry needs your support.

 

It's hard for me hear what you are saying over the loudness of your continually calling concealed carry a privilege.

[Craigcelia]

Like I said before. Stupid publicity stunts are not helpful to gun rights advocates. These Texas open carry guys are totally irresponsible and are giving the Bloomberg/Feinstein brigade ammo to cause rifts and split us up. Scaring a bunch of old ladies shopping at Target was gonna accomplish what exactly? I sure hope someone can clean up this mess.

I agree entirely.

[BIGDEESUL]

 

This whole situation is far more troubling to those of us that support and practice open carry than those who don't. I hope to eventually see open carry legal in Illinois. Obviously this Texas thing is pushing that timeline back. There are those here that oppose open carry as much as the antis. This is not the time to gloat. You're privilege of concealed carry has its foundation in the right to open carry. Open carry needs your support.

 

 

 

It's hard for me hear what you are saying over the loudness of your continually calling concealed carry a privilege.

 

I completely agree.

 

There's absolutely no reason that those morons should carry rifles into businesses, or even walk around with them in public for no reason. They're lucky enough to be able to open carry long guns, and they're going to screw it up. Being able to OC rifles is for hunting, or if there's civil disobedience or an incident like a hurricane or tornado, they have the ability to protect their areas from looting, etc. Open carry of long guns isn't so morons with tiny weenuses can compensate by running around around a grocery store scaring the crap out of people because Merica!

 

Good to see the NRA distance themselves from those schmoes.

[protean]

I personally would not want my family walking in a store where people have slinged rifles on their back. It just does not look normal and I would not feel safe with my family inside. On a hunting or range event no problem but not not on shopping stores. I am referring to OC of rifles. I am more for concealed carry obviously as I recognize that as much as I have my 2A right. The other side has a right to not want to be around them. Concealed carry is a great middle ground for that. Concealed carry with no punishment for accidental exposure and I do mean accidental is fine.

 

I just cannot see or agree with the OCT folks in their acts. It is not normal and scares people and does more harm for our law abiding 2A cause.

[flw]

What happened to a armed society is a polite society ?

[Elmer Fudd]

It got over ambushed by a bunch of freaks in tinfoil hats fighting black helicopters.

[kurt555gs]

Molly. I don't mean any disrespect to anyone on my views of rights and privileges. It's how I personally view the difference between open and concealed carry.

 

To me, a right is something that is yours, you can do by default with no requirements to pay fees, or have training, and cannot be taken away from you except under due process of law.

 

In most states, open carry fits that definition. All states except Vermont have in addition to or in lieu of the RIGHT of open carry, what I consider a privilege of concealed carry by some combination of taking a test and paying a fee etc. Some states like Illinois go even farther into what I consider the privilege territory because your "privilege" can be denied or rescinded at the whim of some official without due process of law. Example local leo review, board denial, and worse someone finding you in their opinion a danger to yourself or others.

 

These are simply my opinions. Not an insult to anyone.

[Elmer Fudd]

I don't think anyone has a real objection to the OC that you are describing Kurt...a pistol in a holster is a pistol in a holster. The carry of a long gun into a pubic place like a Target store to grocery shop doesn't serve a logical need. Its a repeat of just because you can doesn't mean that you should. And it carries the potential to cost all of us something more and accomplishes NOTHING....so why do it?

[borgranta]

 

This whole situation is far more troubling to those of us that support and practice open carry than those who don't. I hope to eventually see open carry legal in Illinois. Obviously this Texas thing is pushing that timeline back. There are those here that oppose open carry as much as the antis. This is not the time to gloat. You're privilege of concealed carry has its foundation in the right to open carry. Open carry needs your support.

 

It's hard for me hear what you are saying over the loudness of your continually calling concealed carry a privilege.

 

Licensing something turns an otherwise criminal act into a legal act. A constitutionally protected right can therefore not be licensed since it is not a criminal act and there is plenty of case law indicating that many of the courts regard concealed carry as a privilege.

[defaultdotxbe]

Licensing something turns an otherwise criminal act into a legal act. A constitutionally protected right can therefore not be licensed since it is not a criminal act and there is plenty of case law indicating that many of the courts regard concealed carry as a privilege.

 

More recent rulings 7th and 9th circuits seem to be evolving the opinion, that we have a general right to carry, whether open or concealed, and as long as one of them is allowed the other can be restricted or banned

[Mayonaise]

To me, a right is something that is yours, you can do by default with no requirements to pay fees, or have training, and cannot be taken away from you except under due process of law.

 

 

So is voting a privilege or a right?

[kurt555gs]

I would say the 7th and 9th are saying states can hand out privileges in lieu of rights. I don't think the definitions of rights or privileges have changed.

 

Kurt on G+ http://goo.gl/EX4gL2

 

[borgranta]

I listened to oral arguments in Woollard again and one of the things Judges King and Davis said is "You can carry a a long gun, you can carry a shotgun down the street, for any reason or no reason"

 

Alan Gura responded "A long gun is not an arm that people would expect to ordinarily use for traditional self defense purposes down the street.. Nobody carries a shotgun around to defend themselves against a mugger." To which Judge Diaz replied "Well after this, they might." Alan Gura replied "That may be something the state is inviting and they may not like the results."

A guy was stopped by a cop and told he can not openly carry the unloaded rifle that he had. The cop stated that he did not care what the attorney general said in federal court. Maybe someone should sue the state and the officers if others encounter similar situation using the testimony of the attorney general as evidence since if the state admits that the AG lied it could force the court to reopen the Woolard case.

[asfried1]

 

 

Actually there have been at least two instances in Chicago of a gangbanger opening fire on a crowd of people on the southside with an AK-47. In at least one instance the banger was wearing body armor as well.......welcome to the zoo. Here is example with the outstanding rapper Chief Queef. http://www.tmz.com/2014/03/.../chief-keef-ak-47-guns-chicago-shooting/

 

 

 

Yes, but $10 says that AK didn't start out in a sling on his back, which is why I specified slung rifles in the first place.

I agree running around the target at low ready is just a jackass move and I wouldn't blame any CCWer for shooting someone who does that crap, that's like running round the store with a pistol in your hand.

To me a slung rifle is the same as a pistol in a holster.

 

 

The problem is that you are drawing distinctions that only someone with training and sophistication can make. The 90% of our fellow citizens who are not as sophisticated will see the OCers as a threat. Honestly, I'm not that sophisticated. Despite being a military retiree, I only carried a rifle (unloaded) during AOCS and I don't think I can easily or confidently make the distinction between two guys walking down the aisle - one with his rifle slung and the other at low ready. I would just see a guy weirdly carrying an AR-15 down the grocery aisle and, as I've previously said, back the heck out of there ASAP.

[Archer2]

After trying to figure out why their behavior bothers me I think that it's the lack of courtesy and respect for the business. Forget the guns themselves. They are staging a political demonstration on private property uninvited. They are taking advantage of companies whom they view as friendly to their cause. I think I'd feel the same way if they were pro-choice demonstrators or anything else. It's just rude and boorish behavior from which no good can come. Note I'm not disputing their right to do it, just the lack of good judgement as to whether they should do it.

[BShawn]

After trying to figure out why their behavior bothers me I think that it's the lack of courtesy and respect for the business. Forget the guns themselves. They are staging a political demonstration on private property uninvited. They are taking advantage of companies whom they view as friendly to their cause. I think I'd feel the same way if they were pro-choice demonstrators or anything else. It's just rude and boorish behavior from which no good can come. Note I'm not disputing their right to do it, just the lack of good judgement as to whether they should do it.

 

^THIS^

 

Like I said with the starbucks scenario, starbucks merely wanted to remain neutral and ******* sell coffee! These ***clowns are gonna ruin a lot of things in a lot of the country if they don't cut this crap out!

[defaultdotxbe]

I would say the 7th and 9th are saying states can hand out privileges in lieu of rights. I don't think the definitions of rights or privileges have changed.

 

Kurt on G+ http://goo.gl/EX4gL2

But your distinction between right and privilege seems to be based on what the state says can and can't do without license

 

To me, a right is something that is yours, you can do by default with no requirements to pay fees, or have training, and cannot be taken away from you except under due process of law.

 

so the state gets to define and redefine what is a right and what is a privilege simply by passing or repealing laws

[kurt555gs]

I don't think so. But until SCOTUS would handle this it seems a dilution of rights. No. I stand by my original definition. And in Illinois it's even more diluted.

 

Kurt on G+ http://goo.gl/EX4gL2

 

 

[protean]

It got over ambushed by a bunch of freaks in tinfoil hats fighting black helicopters.

So true!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Elmer Fudd]

I will put it in really harsh terms...I typically make a five digit donation to NRAILA every year.....this year I am going to add a condition that they don't use a dime of it to support OC of long guns...I don't need to support stupidity.

[lockman]

 

Didn't California have open carry until a bunch of folks like this started oc rallies! That didn't go as planned!

 

 

 

California was legal for OC with unloaded handguns. That is until a bunch of demonstrators started OCing their unloaded handguns and scaring people. Now that's illegal too. Good job, guys.

 

Lesson learned: exercise your rights and they will be taken away.

 

If you allow that to stand, then you never had the right in the first place.

[lockman]

 

Didn't California have open carry until a bunch of folks like this started oc rallies! That didn't go as planned!

 

 

 

California was legal for OC with unloaded handguns. That is until a bunch of demonstrators started OCing their unloaded handguns and scaring people. Now that's illegal too. Good job, guys.

 

Lesson learned: exercise your rights and they will be taken away.

 

If you allow that to stand, then you never had the right in the first place.

[lockman]

I will put it in really harsh terms...I typically make a five digit donation to NRAILA every year.....this year I am going to add a condition that they don't use a dime of it to support OC of long guns...I don't need to support stupidity.

 

OC of long guns was popular long before OC of handguns,historically.

 

Mr. Fudd is it a stretch to conclude that you would not OC a long gun even if it was your only lawful alternative?

[BobPistol]

I like the guys "HOPE _{for bacon}" T-shirt.

 

Homer Simpson says "mmmm...bacon"

[asfried1]

 

I will put it in really harsh terms...I typically make a five digit donation to NRAILA every year.....this year I am going to add a condition that they don't use a dime of it to support OC of long guns...I don't need to support stupidity.

OC of long guns was popular long before OC of handguns,historically.

 

Mr. Fudd is it a stretch to conclude that you would not OC a long gun even if it was your only lawful alternative?

 

 

I wouldn't for the following reasons:

 

1. It would give a victory to our opponents

 

2. It would be impossible to do so while engaging in my chosen profession

 

3. I would lose business over it (probably 90%)

 

4. It would be wildly inappropriate to the threat environment in which I live

 

5. I would get me kicked out of most private businesses in the area in which I live

 

6. I would develop the reputation of being a weirdo (more so than currently)

 

7. My wife would leave me (hmmm...)

 

8. I would get back and shoulder strain

 

9. It would give a victory to our opponents...

[Hipshot Percussion]

 

 

I will put it in really harsh terms...I typically make a five digit donation to NRAILA every year.....this year I am going to add a condition that they don't use a dime of it to support OC of long guns...I don't need to support stupidity.

OC of long guns was popular long before OC of handguns,historically.

 

Mr. Fudd is it a stretch to conclude that you would not OC a long gun even if it was your only lawful alternative?

 

 

I wouldn't for the following reasons:

6. I would develop the reputation of being a weirdo (more so than currently)

Now THAT made me laugh!!!

[kurt555gs]

I'm still waiting to see is OCT's strategy works. I haven't decided on what they are doing is right or wrong. I know the antis are making hay with it right now, but the battle isn't over. I'm not yet able to predict the future.

 

Kurt on G+ http://goo.gl/EX4gL2

 

 

[kurt555gs]

I remember back in the day when the ACLU would spend resources to defend the KKK or Nazi marches where the only result would be making its members and the public in general upset. I never heard they shouldn't do that because we might lose free speech 1st Amendment rights for the rest of us.

 

The ACLU knew they were being used by groups they didn't agree with. It wasn't the plan of the ACLU to spent their money defending them. But they did it anyway because the 1st Amendment was under attack.

 

I think the NRA should vigorously support OCT for exactly the same reasons no matter how distasteful it is to their leadership. In reality the NRA is the last protector of civil rights we have in this country. And like what OCT is doing or not, it's my feeling they need to step up and protect the 2nd Amendment.

 

Kurt on G+ http://goo.gl/EX4gL2

 

[Elmer Fudd]

 

I will put it in really harsh terms...I typically make a five digit donation to NRAILA every year.....this year I am going to add a condition that they don't use a dime of it to support OC of long guns...I don't need to support stupidity.

OC of long guns was popular long before OC of handguns,historically.

 

Mr. Fudd is it a stretch to conclude that you would not OC a long gun even if it was your only lawful alternative?

 

If it was the ONLY lawful option not at all but it isn't...Texas has CC for handguns....if we have what we need why push it with something that could very easily blow up in our faces.....I will stand to the end of the earth to protect our rights where we need to.....let's try another analogy...does anyone feel the need to own a grenade launcher or a howitzer for self protection...i would expect and hope not....so I am NOT going to seek to protect ground that we don't need to hold...thank you Hamburger Hill.