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Do you call 911?


vito

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Totally agree with the first, but have seen the latter expressed often. I understand being prepared to use it, but I cannot fathom the notion that if you draw, you must shoot. Or phrased another way, don't draw unless you're going to shoot. And I've seen that expressed many times on multiple forums. The logic of that escapes me.

 

If you question that logic, 99% of the time you'll be met with the argument that drawing your weapon and not shooting is brandishing, and brandishing is illegal.

 

It's a sad fact that either (1) many of us have no common sense, or (2) we're so conditioned from the other side's argument that "guns r bad, mmkay?" that we start to believe their crap.

 

Either way, it sucks that we have to spend so much of our energy educating those on our own side.

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Totally agree with the first, but have seen the latter expressed often. I understand being prepared to use it, but I cannot fathom the notion that if you draw, you must shoot. Or phrased another way, don't draw unless you're going to shoot. And I've seen that expressed many times on multiple forums. The logic of that escapes me.

If you question that logic, 99% of the time you'll be met with the argument that drawing your weapon and not shooting is brandishing, and brandishing is illegal.

 

It's a sad fact that either (1) many of us have no common sense, or (2) we're so conditioned from the other side's argument that "guns r bad, mmkay?" that we start to believe their crap.

 

Either way, it sucks that we have to spend so much of our energy educating those on our own side.

 

Wow, that is soooooo well spoken! Thank you on behalf of many of us.

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I'm not sure you understand what Beezil was saying. Rahm wants to charge $4.00 for EVERY call to 911. That's a big difference from a surcharge on your monthly bill.

And to the OP, like was said so many times, yes, call 911 to report the other guy. If it were me, I think I might leave out the part where I pulled a gun on him and he fled. I would wait until the police arrived and then give them all the details.

Oops, I was misinformed. Looks like it is an increase in the surcharge. Sorry for originally posting bad info...

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This is from a 16 year LEO, it is better to call. You never know who witness the incident and calls, while not knowing what really happened.

 

What are your thoughts on the response I got from CPD when I did call? Is that department policy for just a self-reporting of a non-shooting defensive display of a firearm? If it's not, then what would make it different with someone else calling 911 and reporting it?

 

 

My statement was along the lines of:

 

"I was just physically threatened by an individual at Such and Such Place. He came at me in a threatening manner that made me believe that he was intent on causing me bodily harm. I'm a disabled veteran who walks with a cane, so I drew my concealed carried firearm, for which I have an Illinois CCL. Upon seeing that I was armed, the criminal who tried to attack me stopped his actions, turned around, and ran away. I would like to file a police report about the incident and give a description of my attacker. I'm going to call my attorney after I get off the phone here and get their legal advice on giving my statement to the police. Should I remain at my present location so you can send officers to it, so I can direct them to where I saw the attacker go, as well as have them take my statement when my attorney arrives, or should I accompany my attorney to the nearest police station to give my statement? Or can I give it to you over the phone?"

 

The response was, "Since you didn't shoot anyone and you weren't injured [note that they did not even ask if I was injured], we don't take statements about that kind of thing. We also don't sent officers to investigate that, and we don't need you to come down to the station to give a statement."

 

So, that's my experience with that sort of situation. I actually have practiced and rehearsed a "boilerplate" statement, where I can fill in the bare details of where it happened and what the criminal did, so that I won't be trying to wing it as I go.

 

But, it doesn't seem to have made any difference, to be honest.

 

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The response was, "Since you didn't shoot anyone and you weren't injured [note that they did not even ask if I was injured], we don't take statements about that kind of thing. We also don't sent officers to investigate that, and we don't need you to come down to the station to give a statement."

 

This is absolutely appalling.

 

I'm glad you were not, in fact, injured.

 

I'd say this is pretty typical for the Chicago PD. I had a buddy from college who was a detective in a near West side suburb. Whenever they would call CPD for assistance, for example on an armed robbery, etc., the first question from CPD was "Is anyone dead?" No, this was an armed robbery, but we've ID-ed the scumbag and we know he lives in your jurisdiction at XYZ address. Can you pick him up for us? CPD: "No. Call back if someone is dead".

 

And that's for "cooperation" with another law enforcement agency. We, the "little people" can expect less help than that.

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All calls to 911 in Chicago are recorded and if I called to report an attempted crime that was perpetrated on me and I got a response that no officers were going to be sent, I would formally be filing a complaint against that call taker. Whether or not you pulled out your weapon, there was still an attempted crime committed against you. That requires an officer be sent to investigate. If it was something that didn't just occur, such as the day before, then I could understand but I would still insist on a report be filed. In Chicago, you can call 311 and have a report completed documenting the criminal incident and filed over the phone. Its better to cya then to end up looking like an offender and get put through the ringer because the bad guy calls on you. Not all criminals are smart. Most have heard about the crackhead calling because they got fake dope, etc... So never assume that they won't call on you. They may not have any intention of sticking around to talk to the police but if they call in a man with a gun, chances are very good that the police are going to show up and you will be put through some changes.
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I apprehensively write this. Whether The PD is going to show up or not is irrelevant. You don't know who is looking out a window or driving down the street. You should call 911, it does seem unnecessary but in doing so you have a recorded "statement". If for some reason the PD does show up and you end up taking your first ride in a squad car, your attorneys can have that call pulled. "911?", "Hi I was walking my dog with my wife and child and somebody came up to me and said "Give me your wallet or you are dead". FEARING FOR MY FAMILIES LIFE AND MY OWN and having a concealed carry license I drew my concealed pistol because the man had one of his hands in his pocket. He ran off. There are bunch of options that 911 will exercise at this point, probably asking your name and location. Give it to them. Then if they say something along the lines of what do you want us to do about it? No big deal. If there was some elderly woman whose business is to look out the window and call 911 first, claiming that they saw a man with a gun, you have the 911 tapes to back you up. It's not the actual perp that will likely be your problem, most likely it will be somebody who saw YOU with a gun and the other person run off. By calling 911 you have established yourself as the victim of a crime and took appropriate steps to stop said crime.

 

Your view is a reasonable one, and those are definitely my thoughts on the subject as well, but you read above what the response of 911 was when I called them, yes? To elaborate a bit further, the person I spoke with actually seemed annoyed that I appeared to be wasting their time by calling them.

 

I half suspect that if I had pushed the issue and pursued having a report filed, I would have gotten a thinly veiled threat of some sort for pulling a firearm on someone, even if I were just doing it to cover my own @ss.

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  • 2 weeks later...

All of my instructors(all police officers) have said that if you draw or display your gun, then call 911.

Everyone else has already said what you have done is brandish your gun.

Period.

You broke the law.

Just like shooting someone, what you have to do now is prove the justifiable reason why.

The 911 tape will be the only piece of evidence beyond your word.

 

If I called 911 and they told me that they weren't going to deal with it I would be happy as a clam.

I got to authenticate my side of the story without the hassle of dealing with the police.

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You should always call the police for all the reasons stated above. Personally I wouldn't bother. Police rarely if ever find the "some random guy" that tried to rob you and ran away. And then if by some miracle they did find him you would have to ID them, go to court and waste time out of your life. Then your names on record and you have to worry about retribution from any relatives or associates of said criminal. That's just not worth it for me. That's why I carry a gun in the first place.
This. I've called the police on suspicious behavior in my own neighborhood and they've shown up, searched for people for approximately 90 seconds, then radio back to dispatch 10-65, "GOA" (we're leaving, subjects gone on arrival).

 

I did call the police when I saw a guy burglarizng parked cars and they caught him at the entrance to my subdivision. He was on a bike and his pockets were bulging, so they asked for ID, he gave them a fake name and tried to ride off (can't escape my subdivision unless he went past two cop cars while on a bicycle). Guess what address was listed as the location of his arrest? Mine. When, in reality, he wasn't even arrested on my street. I was livid. Went down to the local paper and went off, telling them they just put my life in danger because the guy was out on parole for guess what...burglary. They laughed at me, said "What do you want us to do, reprint it?" No, I want you to recognize that you just told a five time felon where I live. He has served multiple stints in IDOC custody for burglary, coke dealing, meth making, more burglary, and is a meth addict. Yeah I want that at my front door. Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk

 

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This is from a 16 year LEO, it is better to call. You never know who witness the incident and calls, while not knowing what really happened.

 

What are your thoughts on the response I got from CPD when I did call? Is that department policy for just a self-reporting of a non-shooting defensive display of a firearm? If it's not, then what would make it different with someone else calling 911 and reporting it?

 

 

My statement was along the lines of:

 

"I was just physically threatened by an individual at Such and Such Place. He came at me in a threatening manner that made me believe that he was intent on causing me bodily harm. I'm a disabled veteran who walks with a cane, so I drew my concealed carried firearm, for which I have an Illinois CCL. Upon seeing that I was armed, the criminal who tried to attack me stopped his actions, turned around, and ran away. I would like to file a police report about the incident and give a description of my attacker. I'm going to call my attorney after I get off the phone here and get their legal advice on giving my statement to the police. Should I remain at my present location so you can send officers to it, so I can direct them to where I saw the attacker go, as well as have them take my statement when my attorney arrives, or should I accompany my attorney to the nearest police station to give my statement? Or can I give it to you over the phone?"

 

The response was, "Since you didn't shoot anyone and you weren't injured [note that they did not even ask if I was injured], we don't take statements about that kind of thing. We also don't sent officers to investigate that, and we don't need you to come down to the station to give a statement."

 

So, that's my experience with that sort of situation. I actually have practiced and rehearsed a "boilerplate" statement, where I can fill in the bare details of where it happened and what the criminal did, so that I won't be trying to wing it as I go.

 

But, it doesn't seem to have made any difference, to be honest.

 

 

I am not CPD, but I can tell you that the call is recorded.

SInce you made the call to report, but the call taker refused to pass the report on, there is a couple things you could do at this point:

1) Thank the call taker and get their ID. Then make a "report" to yourself noting all above info to include the ID of who you talked to.

OR

2) Request to talk to a Command Officer, then relay the info......

 

I personally would probably do #1

You have reported, it is not your fault that they hired a complete idiot.

Further you have covered your bases, while the dispatch center has the location should a MWG (Man WIth Gun) call comes in.....

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I called the non-emergency line and the second I said the word "burglary" that elevated my call to the top of the queue. Had an officer and his supervisor out in about 3 minutes.

 

The guy rifled through my next door neighbor's car and didn't take anything but the cops went to his door to see if he wanted to file a report. He hears someone pounding on his door at 1 am and looks out the window, sees a guy wearing black (a cop), can't see the squads parked in front of my house, so he grabs his pistol and goes downstairs to answer the door. Opens the door with the muzzle pointed at the Sergeant. Cop says "Whoa whoa whoa put that down we're the good guys." and everyone laughs. Neighbor apologized, explained that he saw a guy wearing black come up to his house so he thought it could be a home invasion. Truth is he's lucky he doesn't have multiple 45 slugs in him (local dept uses P220s) and six feet under.

 

But back on topic. I have had to draw on someone. A drunk guy who wanted to fight me "just because" and tried grabbing me by the throat inside of a gas station. Telling me he's gonna kill me. Lots of other details led me to believe he was also armed (like when he said he was gonna cut my throat with a knife he had on him). Drew on him and told him to back off and stay put. Called 911 during the encounter, talked to the responding officer for a few minutes (they ran a warrant check on me, SOP), arrested the drunken idiot for UUW, disorderly, and public intox. Definitely call 911 if forced to draw because your narrative is critical. God knows what the other person is saying to the police. "I was minding my own business when this guy stuck a gun in my face...."

 

Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk

 

 

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I agree that anytime you have to draw on somebody definitely call 911. You want your side of that recorded and if they send somebody out to check it out and you get run for wants and warrants, big deal. At least your side of it is documented. If 911 tells you to get lost at least you have the recording with your side of it. You are the victim and you are protecting your life or you wouldn't have unholstered in the first place. That's my take on it regardless of how nonchalant some 911 operators are. Always call and cover your ARS because you don't know what the other person, somebody driving by or somebody just looking out the window is going to do or say. The last thing you need is the PD showing up, threatening to blow your head off and then screaming "He's got a gun on him" while pinning your head to the ground with a knee. That very well could happen, there are some very gung ho cops who watch a little too much TV out there. Then you are going to have to get a Watch Commander out there and HOPEFULLY it all goes well OR you could have just called 911 and avoided a huge incident.
This. The general public's situational awareness is practically nil. So a bystander sees (you) holding a person at gunpoint, they're gonna flip and call 911, say there's a guy/girl about to shoot someone. Or, worse, one of the scumbag's pals calls the cops and flips the script, says you're the aggressor. Cops respond code 3, and the likely outcome is you end up being shot because they can't risk that you're one of the good guys. That's if your gun is still out. Around here, the cops respond to MWAGs in a minute or less. At the very least, at least in my situation, you're gonna eat dirt (or concrete, asphalt, floor tile, whatever) and it's getting hashed out afterward. They don't necessarily have to warn before using lethal force if they perceive a person (or themselves, or anyone) is in imminent danger of great bodily harm. That's well-established case law. But, by calling 911, speaking with dispatch and having dispatch relay pertinent info to the officers responding, the likelihood of the armed citizen being maimed or killed is greatly diminished. That's not to say that cops haven't ignored dispatch information and ended up killing someone when it was unnecessary, or raiding the wrong house, but it's far, far less likely to occur if the armed citizen calls 911 and is on the phone with dispatch the entire time. And if it does occur, they can be held accountable. It would look horrible for an officer to show up in court and say "Yeah, I knew what he (or she) looks like, was wearing, etc. I shot/tased/beat the snot out of him (or her) anyway."Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk
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